WuHanXianShi14 0 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 it only causes negative drama when people can't deal with losing their pixelsNo. It causes negative drama as a result of both the attitudes of the raiders and the victims. Raids are an inherently toxic thing which almost never ends positively and fault lies in both sides. However, it is always the raiders who initiate it. I know someone will say "Well the [Opposite side of what I'm on] should just learn to have a better attitude and not [Do the thing we commonly complain the opposite side does]"Call me a cynic but that's never going to happen. We're human, humans quarrel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 555 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) I'll agree there is an issue with the raiding system, but as always, it's hard to tell whether raiding is an issue because of the direct rules of raiding, or other rules on the server on combination with raiding. The situation we're in is an accumulation of rules and the environment of lotc, the raiding system being one of them. I think there needs to be a change regarding the Raiding rules but I don't think your solution to the issue is near tolerable levels. A step in the right direction perhaps, but it needs to be discussed more. Edited October 28, 2015 by RIVƎRBIRDIl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless Banzai Screamer 15456 Share Posted October 28, 2015 While I'm no "anti-staff" ***, I would not leave it to the GM team to decide if a raid is fair or not. As seen before, GMs have exhibited bias behavior and are prone to flaws like the rest of us (we're all people). As for raiding for loot, if I'm not mistaken wouldn't Orcs do this? There's nothing wrong with pillaging and making a living off of it. In fact I think there's honestly been less raids when compared to Post-Exodus Anthos when New Abresi was getting fucked by orcs and dwarves on different occasions before Knox213 took over NL. With all of that said, make it a 48 hour universal cool down once a settlement has been raided. No need to tamper with raid reasoning specifics. And crack down on trolly behavior during raids. It's not full proof but you'll see a lot less animosity if folks exhibit some respect for one another at the OOC level. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big narstie 1701 Share Posted October 28, 2015 it only causes negative drama when people can't deal with losing their pixelsNo. It causes negative drama as a result of both the attitudes of the raiders and the victims. Raids are an inherently toxic thing which almost never ends positively and fault lies in both sides. However, it is always the raiders who initiate it. I know someone will say "Well the [Opposite side of what I'm on] should just learn to have a better attitude and not [Do the thing we commonly complain the opposite side does]"Call me a cynic but that's never going to happen. We're human, humans quarrel. rather than complain do something about it!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WuHanXianShi14 0 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 rather than complain do something about it!!! That is the objective of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted October 28, 2015 When have raid rules ever been anything but a reason to ban people? They are never enforced unless the GMs have a grudge against the group doing it. Look back at Anthos and the Fringe. In the Anthos New Abresi would be constantly raided over the limits, if we ever returned the favour we'd get in serious ****. There were even times when we got banned for breaking raid rules when we didn't raid. Then you go to the Fringe when raid rules were ignored entirely, with 20+ raids a day. Neither side minded this and no GMs were banning, except for when the Zionists got butthurt and got several Oreners banned for breaking raid rules. When we counter-reported them, no bans were given. Raid rules are never used fairly. Just as an excuse for GMs to ban people they dislike. Adding them back won't make raids any better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless Banzai Screamer 15456 Share Posted October 28, 2015 When have raid rules ever been anything but a reason to ban people? They are never enforced unless the GMs have a grudge against the group doing it. Look back at Anthos and the Fringe. In the Fringe New Abresi would be constantly raided over the limits, if we ever returned the favour we'd get in serious ****. There were even times when we got banned for breaking raid rules when we didn't raid. Then you go to the Fringe when raid rules were ignored entirely, with 20+ raids a day. Neither side minded this and no GMs were banning, except for when the Zionists got butthurt and got several Oreners banned for breaking raid rules. When we counter-reported them, no bans were given. Raid rules are never used fairly. Just as an excuse for GMs to ban people they dislike.Other than confusing Vekaro with New Abresi, I think James2k makes a valid point. Should further restrictions be added to raids like "sufficient rp reasoning", I believe one side would be favored over the other in any future ongoing conflicts. Keep it simple - 48 hour cool down, caps on Nation and non nation raids. The only issue I do have with the above point though as someone who fought on the Oren side during the Fringe was that I honestly believe it was our fault to stooping to the same rule breaking as the other side and not calling the other side out for it. A lot of us did, and still do, believe ban reports to be a last resort. Instead of engaging what we see as blatant rule breaking, you have to call them out on it. If they don't listen, you get staff intervention. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted October 28, 2015 When have raid rules ever been anything but a reason to ban people? They are never enforced unless the GMs have a grudge against the group doing it. Look back at Anthos and the Fringe. In the Fringe New Abresi would be constantly raided over the limits, if we ever returned the favour we'd get in serious ****. There were even times when we got banned for breaking raid rules when we didn't raid. Then you go to the Fringe when raid rules were ignored entirely, with 20+ raids a day. Neither side minded this and no GMs were banning, except for when the Zionists got butthurt and got several Oreners banned for breaking raid rules. When we counter-reported them, no bans were given. Raid rules are never used fairly. Just as an excuse for GMs to ban people they dislike.Other than confusing Vekaro with New Abresi, I think James2k makes a valid point. Should further restrictions be added to raids like "sufficient rp reasoning", I believe one side would be favored over the other in any future ongoing conflicts. Keep it simple - 48 hour cool down, caps on Nation and non nation raids. The only issue I do have with the above point though as someone who fought on the Oren side during the Fringe was that I honestly believe it was our fault to stooping to the same rule breaking as the other side and not calling the other side out for it. A lot of us did, and still do, believe ban reports to be a last resort. Instead of engaging what we see as blatant rule breaking, you have to call them out on it. If they don't listen, you get staff intervention. I meant "In Anthos New Abresi". We were getting raided constantly at one point. Even the Elves were breaking raid rules to attack us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WuHanXianShi14 0 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I do sympathize with bias GMs and unprofessional decisions, James2k, believe me. That said, I do believe they have become better in recent months, and they are really the only way our rules and regulations can ever change.I believe that raids are almost always a chore, and unenjoyable for at least one party involved. Sometimes its the raiders being meta-squaded, most often its the ones being raided.Considering that, its simply not something we should allow people to do "just because", and thats why I want to regulate when it would be allowed based on the RP reasoning which one would do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big narstie 1701 Share Posted October 28, 2015 rather than complain do something about it!!! That is the objective of this thread.no its not the objective of this thread is to complain!there's plenty a settlement can do to prevent raids, always has been, if they don't, they'll suffer for it????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WuHanXianShi14 0 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 no its not the objective of this thread is to complain!there's plenty a settlement can do to prevent raids, always has been, if they don't, they'll suffer for it?????Personally, the settlement I RP in has been fortified and we've taken measures to prevent raids. The objective of this thread is to present the statistics showing people want change, and provide the rationale for why it should be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 1393 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Raiding systems should just be worked out between the 2 groups involved, making it more fun for both sides and causing less salt imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Raiding systems should just be worked out between the 2 groups involved, making it more fun for both sides and causing less salt imo.Mhm. Set some rules as a base but allow faction agreements to override it. It was really annoying in wars when the two sides would agree on something really nice but the GMs would stop it(coughtrenchescough) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderssn 1115 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Loot=Money=Personal Interest, and a reason to raid. Don't add any strict ooc restrictions on raiding, At least if you're at war with someone, there should be little to no ooc restrictions to raiding at all.The consequences of banditry/raiding should be IC, not OOC. If you can't protect yourself, hire mercenaries, if you don't have money or a profitable income, don't run a town. Perhaps implement a system for settlements to call for help within an area. Like farming village is being raided, they sound the *insert realistic roleplay alarm* and the soldiers in the nearby military fortress or larger city would rally to defend the village. And in this case, I think it would be fair for the defenders to simply put on their common status and join the fight(if pvp is going on in the village). I also think Lotc should stop changing the same rules over and over again just to adapt for the current situation, then to be changed again when the nations evolve or fall. Edited October 29, 2015 by Anderssn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ivory 4547 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If I create a character who is African American, am I therefore allowed to raid for loot because it is part of my culture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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