Cannonizing Shamanism

[Blawharag 277]

Here's something interesting that Mogroka was telling me about the other day:

Shamans come in various types. Not every shaman necessarily uses magic and shamans in general have varying purposes. The Shaman "types" that Mogroka listed to me are as follows:

1) Lore-keepers~ Keep knowledge of the past

2)Legend Tellers~ Tell stories of the past to others (Similar to Lore-keepers except maybe more verbal over scroll work?)

3)Advisers~ Advise the Rex and other high members of Orcish Government.

4)Fighters~ Shaman who use for magic for war purposes, I believe these ones use expressly magic as opposed to:

5)Battle Shaman~ Shaman who use a combination of magic and weapons. This might spur the image of a shaman with lightning charging his weapon, though I also picture it being something more subtle like a simple buff of strength or combat awareness.

6)Farseers~ I believe these were shaman who see into the past, future and events around the world. Shaman who make predictions, uncover truths and gaze upon turmoils far away.

7) Healers~ Self Explainatory, though not necessarily done through magic.

8) Temple/Tomb Keepers~ These upkeep the temples, altars and tombs and often lead ceremonies at these locations. They lead others in group meditation sessions.

A Shaman can fall under more than one type if they preform multiple duties. However to become both it takes some serious work and effort to become both. Much real life time should be dedicated to studying before you are graduate to each type.

***Disclaimer*** I do not know the above list to be all inclusive. These were simply some shaman types that Mogroka was listing to me.

~~~

Shamans revere 3 things:

The Elements~

These make up the world around us. Fire, water, earth, lava, ice, ect. This makes up the more "flashy magical" side of shamanism.

The Spirits~

These are closer to embodiments of aspects of humanity. Wrath, Vengeance, Hope, Love, peace ect. These are generally placed under broader catagories of spirits of light, order, chaos and the like.

The Ancestors~

Though Shaman don't necessarily derive magical power from this, they still do much interaction with the Orcs of the Past. They talk with them, share in their knowledge and seek their blessings. Whether they are meditating to Krug or seeking the knowledge of a more recently dead elder shaman, interacting with the ancestors is the more "religious" aspect of shamanism

~~~

Another important note that Mogroka mentioned is that Shamans =/= Magic. And similarly, Magic Orc =/= Shaman. Not all shamans use "Magic", for example there is probably very little magic involved in keeping the Lore of Krugmar or telling it to others. Similarly an Adviser may advise by giving the input of the spirits (which he learns via magic) or he might simply advise through his extensive knowledge and wisdom (a far greater feat of roleplay to be sure and one that contains no need for magic).

In theme to the tune above, Orcs running around Krugmar using magic are not necessarily Shaman. Being a magic user does not make you a shaman. Predict the future and mass-grow cacti all you want, you do not necessarily have to be a shaman to do so.

~~~

I felt the above needed to be mentioned because right now there is literally NO cannon lore about shamans. Everyone is making up everything they say and basing it on little to nothing (Not that you can blame them since Shamanism isnt something that has been widely explored so far on an official basis). So I make this post as a sort of first step towards making some cannon shaman lore from which we can base what we do and how we handle this new born rise of Shamanism.

To that effect I think this thread should become a place where we share ideas and try to develop more cannon lore. I think that would start with talking about what everyone is teaching everyone else and trying to make it more uniform. I can tell you now, if there is a surge of new shamans all with different training and all with different perspectives on what is truth, there is going to be a lot of bickering.

I think there is merit to an idea of dividing training regimes based on shaman type. Maybe making a broad shaman "base" training and then teach pupils specialties based on what kind of shaman they are looking to be.

[Baisha 8]

I think there is merit to an idea of dividing training regimes based on shaman type. Maybe making a broad shaman "base" training and then teach pupils specialties based on what kind of shaman they are looking to be.

-redacted-

[Blawharag 277]

I didnt mean base in the structural context, i meant base in common knowledge taught concept. For example one "Base" teaching would be that Shamans should all respect the ancestors and the environment.

Sorry for the confusion, I suppose I could equate this "base" training to elementary school. Everyone learns at least basic math, grammar, history ect. and then we specialize our training similar to picking a major in college. So first we teach everyone the basic concepts of shamanism and follow up by teaching them specifically what they are going to be.

[Baisha 8]

No no, no confusion, just me being an idiot lol. I apologize, but I just got up, read that and skimmed the bottom, and I think in my stupor I just saw "making" and "base." Now that I've read that more carefully, I'm a bit embarrassed.

Disregard that first post!

[Ned Lud 1260]

Awesome. This is something that ought to be addressed as magic gets implemented and players are drawn towards shamanism. I think it's important that we establish some standards and a solid foundation of elder shaman to guide and also enforce the practices of shamanism. Nel'thok and Lexperiments are currently working on some foundation-work, and I think with everyone's input we could come up with some pretty good lore and regulations to make sure that when magic and alchemy is implemented, we don't have a bunch of kids running around screaming, "Lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt."

My current take on shamanism in Aegis:

Shaman take on many forms and aren't all necessarily cloaked wise men sitting around a bonfire in their furs smoking cactus green. Shamanism is a calling and can come to any orc at any time (rarely occurring with members of other races with close ties to the orcish community), it is not necessarily an inherited trait or sub-race, although some may indeed be born into it. Those called to shamanism may experience visions or dreams, they may hear voices or their senses may become heightened, maybe they have suffered a great tragedy or illness and the spirits of the ancestors have reached out to them. The Undead's influence on Aegis has grown as shamanism has dwindled down to not even half a handful of elders. For this reason, the spirits are stirring stronger then ever and orcs are slowly becoming more tapped into the spiritual world. We've seen a rise in aspiring shaman lately as well as those corrupted by Iblees. With this spiritual awareness comes the need for guidance. There are many orcs blundering their way into shamanism as of late and there are many spirits, both good and evil, holding their influence over them. This is why the guild must be re-established and a tight order of elders created to help guide the flock, so to speak. The old lore and history must be collected up and maintained, new lore added where it is missing, and an overall effort to rejuvinate the spiritual health of the Orcish War Nation must begin.

Some random ideas:

- Another type of shaman that wasn't listed would be the Healers.

- The Krughai and Shaman's Guild both have their rank structures. We might consider adding a branch to the Krughai that incorporates Warrior Shaman and Magic Users as well as expanding the Shaman's Guild's ranks to distinguish the various forms of shamanism. This would really just be for keeping track of who's who.

- Eltyer had the idea that if an when alchemy gets added to Minecraft, we regulate it's use in Krugmar (Or wherever we end up on the new continent), possibly restricting it to only skilled shaman. Unauthorized alchemy would be deemed as black magic and would carry a serious penalty. Same could go for Enchanting whenever it gets added, maybe limit it to certain types of Shaman or Goblins. This would keep players from power-gaming and would encourage more role-play.

[Blawharag 277]

Edited to include Healers.

That being said I think we should place the oldest and wisest of the shaman (Currently Nel'thok and Guhdarn but deliberately left open incase we have need for more) in charge of the basic teachings. From there we should assign different people to different specializations to "lead" the teachings (in other words, set the ground rules for how each type or shaman will be trained).

[Sultan 3953]

You forgot Temple/Tomb Keepers

the other thing shamans can be more than one thing together..

Id like Nelthok and Lex to list the elements and spirits here please.

Edit also the name of Known spirits.

For example we have the spirits of life, name some of the known ones and are the lesser or major?

[Blawharag 277]

Edited the OP to reflect some more developments that were made in TS

[Petyr 485]

I like the start! We druids had to through a similar process of actually identifying who we were.

[Urahra 5780]

This sort of makes me want to be a shaman...

[Blawharag 277]

I also want to shy away ideas of a formal "shaman" institution. I like the idea of seeing Shamans as a regular part of everyday orc culture. Shamans being viewed as another kind of soldier in the Krughai rather than a borrowed unit from some "Shaman Guild" or Shaman Architects being Architects who use shamanism rather than a member of the "Shaman Organization" who is helping the architects. Where druids (at least to my knowledge) are looked at as a sort of separate sect of Elf culture, I think Shamans should not be an their own group but rather an integrated part of other groups like Kheshig, Krughai, Architects/engineers, ect. Thats not to say there shouldn't be a Shaman structure or work between shamans.

The Elder Shaman would represent the "Shaman Guild/Sect" of Orc society, heading the Shaman teachings and representing the interests of Shaman's in general in political agendas. They would be the "Full Time" Shamans, the ones who studied for many years and mastered Shamanism. The rest of us would fall into our own devices. Once we breach the apprentice stage we basically just go off and act on our own within the individual aspects of Orc Society.

To me this makes more sense for a society like Orcs who would prefer not to have to have issues of command. In my suggested system, a Shaman in the Krughai would answer to the Krughai, a Shaman with the Architects answers solely to the architects, Kheshig to the Warlord ect. As opposed to a structured Shaman "Guild" where Shaman working with the Krughai may now also have to answer to his Shaman higher ups. Maybe the Shaman's "Guild" interests lie in one place and the Architects in a different place and now a Shaman Architect must decide between answering to the Shaman's needs or the Architects needs. This division of loyalties is something I believe Orcs would actively try to avoid and the best way to do that would be to stray away from a centralized shaman organization.

Because of the nature of Shamanism (with the exception of leading religious ceremonies) all aspects of shaman life would end up cooperating with these other organizations. As a result it would end up being virtually impossible to keep Shamans from interacting with things like the Krughai. Eventually Shamans will be needed in the battlefield or in want to help build a city. By adding another Organization to vie for desires and how things should be operated. Thus it would dilute what i feel to be the strongest part about Orc culture: that being the ability to make quick and solid decisions without having to go through an extended political process.

So in short: Elder Shamans represent the shamans when that is called for and are the only ones perceived as "Shaman-Only" people. Everyone else integrates themselves with the rest as is necessary.

Something to note: I am not saying all Shaman should have to join the Krughai or Architects or something. It is perfectly reasonable that a Shaman may just choose to be a Shaman and contribute in the same way that normal Orc that doesnt belong to any given section. I just feel that we should treat shamans as just another orc with a different skill set. We dont have a Guild of normal everyday orcs. There isnt a Normalhai for those who are not members of the Krughai or Architects or Domini or what have you. These shaman who decide not to join any given division can still contribute to things like battles and rebuilding sanjezal, they just are viewed as a normal everyday orc with a different skill set from that of other orcs. Not as Shamans from a Shaman Guild that have come to aid the Architects.

~~~

Thoughts and feelings on the matter?

[Carnivore91 1]

1) Lore-keepers~ Keep knowledge of the past

2)Legend Tellers~ Tell stories of the past to others (Similar to Lore-keepers except maybe more verbal over scroll work?)

3)Advisers~ Advise the Rex and other high members of Orcish Government.

4)Fighters~ Shaman who use for magic for war purposes, I believe these ones use expressly magic as opposed to:

5)Battle Shaman~ Shaman who use a combination of magic and weapons. This might spur the image of a shaman with lightning charging his weapon, though I also picture it being something more subtle like a simple buff of strength or combat awareness.

6)Farseers~ I believe these were shaman who see into the past, future and events around the world. Shaman who make predictions, uncover truths and gaze upon turmoils far away.

7) Healers~ Self Explainatory, though not necessarily done through magic.

8) Temple/Tomb Keepers~ These upkeep the temples, altars and tombs and often lead ceremonies at these locations. They lead others in group meditation sessions.

A Shaman can fall under more than one type if they preform multiple duties. However to become both it takes some serious work and effort to become both. Much real life time should be dedicated to studying before you are graduate to each type.

I like all ideas! I love them excellent work!

I would Definitely add one for Alchemy once it comes in. Alchemy master or Potion Master something like that. Perhaps make it to where only the Orcs could make them too haha, restrict the market to us!

As for the basic concepts we have right now for teaching purposes Lex Came up with a four tier system that I'm inclined to accept and use.

Tier One or Apprentice: The basic Elemental spirits of Water, Air, Fire, Water. Just used this to get RP going and what not. Basically we RP summing their first spirit. I randomly Pick an element That is their main element that goes into their wooden staff we make later. At this level that first spirit is their main element. We then take around a two week period ((RL of course)) where we summon the next three in the same matter. After a summoning I make the students write a small book about appearance, type of element, name of Spirit, and a small story that the "Spirit" has told them. Then I read and then store the book into the Guild Houses library ((Which at this rate will need a expansion :D ))

Tier Two or Novice: This is when the first four are done. Which allows the Shaman to become more specific into the Elemental Spirits. They may choose a specific area of study or be a broad area student. These elements would be like Metal, Magma, Ice, wood, ect ect ect. This is not a defined list by any means. It could be such a broad topic that many could be made up. Perhaps After they select what they want this is where Your ranks could come in.

Tier Three or ((not sure on name here, Perhaps this is where your titles would come in? Or maybe just simple Shaman)) Anyway this is where you get more specific on everything. Lex's main element here was Life, Death, Light, and Dark. This is where all other elements kinda come together to fit into all these. Perhaps this is where most shamans will stop training and become what they want to be specially.

Tier Four or Master: The final two elements; Time and Space. The most powerful of the spirits because everything can be created or destroyed in time and Space is anything and everything. This would be the most powerful shamans and would be High ranked throughout Society.

That's a pretty good wrap up into the schooling and what not. Tier one like grade school, Tier Two High School, Tier Three College, and Tier four PhD! Think both systems can combine and make something awesome!

[JJMCG 0]

I don't know wether something has already been done for this, but What about making some kind of Shaman diplomat class, as Shamans are supposed to be the wisest of all orcs and the most attuned with something other than; war, piss, and the such. than mabye it's time we sent some out there t gain allies for the orcs, i know that (as a shaman) we can send messages to each other across all of Aegis through spirits (at least Lex and I did anyway), and that got me thinking of how Shamans can be used for long distance communication. Such as diplomacy, (at the risk of sounding cheesy)

The Undead are coming.

The Orc's don't have to be alone...

[Baisha 8]

Isn't something like that already in place? Or at least Shamans are brought along to consult the spirits on important matters (from what I've seen when out on the front lines). I feel like, due to the nature of Orcs, a small party would be needed for diplomatic missions anyways.

[Blawharag 277]

Keep in mind with your teaching system, what you are going over is expressly elemental, where there are also spirits and ancestors to deal with too. Mogroka made a specific distinction between elements being the physical aspects of the world and spirits being a separate aspect, so teaching should reflect from both. In addition, perhaps every shaman does not need to be an expert on all three aspects of shamanism. What you described Lex could probably make for an awesome teaching system for people specifically looking for elements. Blawharag however is widely disinterested in elements and prefers to look at ancestors mostly and to an extent spirits for the purpose of battling. I like the idea of a tier system of teaching though, maybe adding in lessons for the other aspects and than pupils can be taught based on what they are looking for.

It could also serve as a way to get apprentices to receive input from multiple teachers and develop new perspectives, in example:

Velgamog wants to be a Battle Shaman that uses the Elements to fight. So Elder Shaman Nel'thok teaches him the basics of Shamanism, then sends him to Blawharag to learn to be a Battle Shaman. When he has completed the tactics and methods of Battle Shamanning, Nel'thok than sends Velgamog to study under Elder Shaman Lex, who will then specialize Velgamog in elements via his tier system above. So its a really great way to help students develop a broad range of perspectives.