Orc Mating

[Alex_Pan 112]

Aha, now we're getting into culture.

From Blaw's story and behavior I've experienced in game, it looked as though, while male orcs have greater numbers, we had a fair degree of gender equality. Nobody's told me yet "Hey, you can't fight with us because you're a girl." If most female orcs tended to stay home and away from battle, you'd think there'd be a heavier gender bias. More "stay in the kitchen" type behavior. But I'm mostly treated like any other orc, with the exception that folks call me "female".

If your statement was true, Urara would have more trouble fitting into orc society. Orc society would dictate that the ideal female stays submissively in the hut and makes children. Yet I have encountered nothing along those lines. No one has tried to pressure me into finding a mate or having a child. Blaw's story also suggests that the actual ideal female is a powerful warrior. He doesn't say Mira is at all unusual because she's a warrior. So we have contradictory ideas of how your typical orc female behaves.

What is the "ideal" orc female, then? The submissive mate? Or the powerful warrior?

As another idea, what is the orc concept of beauty? What is beautiful to orcs? I would have assumed things that indicate strength, like muscles, large tusks, scars. But that makes Mogroka's attraction to elf females seem a little weird. But then again, he's the Warlord, so he can do whatever he wants. I guess among lesser orcs, an attraction of elves would be embarrassing.

There is gender-bias. When we've had female orcs in the past, or female humans and such, we've made fun of them. I even make fun of orcs that are smaller than me because I don't expect them to be good fighters. If they are good fighters then they'll fit in because strength and skill come above all of our other biases.

Urara is a bit of a tom-boy, and that's also the reason you probably don't get a lot of orcs coming up to you and calling you pretty and asking for babies. We hit on female humans, dwarves, and elves all the time. You could say we like them because they are smaller than us, and look fertile; so have big boobs and such. We do not, however, fall in love with other races (usually) and we still have more respect for orc females than females of other races.

Even if orc females tend to have tons of babies, and the government is entirely male, they are still greatly respected because without them we'd be screwed. Not only do they allow us to reproduce and prosper, but they also give us a chance to practice eugenics, in a sense. If we have enough babies, we can cull the weaklings out to the point where maybe 2/5 new-borns actually make it back from the desert alive. We have a strange culture, which is different from any other that's been around on Earth, but it doesn't mean it's not possible.

[Sultan 3953]

Aha, now we're getting into culture.

From Blaw's story and behavior I've experienced in game, it looked as though, while male orcs have greater numbers, we had a fair degree of gender equality. Nobody's told me yet "Hey, you can't fight with us because you're a girl." If most female orcs tended to stay home and away from battle, you'd think there'd be a heavier gender bias. More "stay in the kitchen" type behavior. But I'm mostly treated like any other orc, with the exception that folks call me "female".

If your statement was true, Urara would have more trouble fitting into orc society. Orc society would dictate that the ideal female stays submissively in the hut and makes children. Yet I have encountered nothing along those lines. No one has tried to pressure me into finding a mate or having a child. Blaw's story also suggests that the actual ideal female is a powerful warrior. He doesn't say Mira is at all unusual because she's a warrior. So we have contradictory ideas of how your typical orc female behaves.

What is the "ideal" orc female, then? The submissive mate? Or the powerful warrior?

As another idea, what is the orc concept of beauty? What is beautiful to orcs? I would have assumed things that indicate strength, like muscles, large tusks, scars. But that makes Mogroka's attraction to elf females seem a little weird. But then again, he's the Warlord, so he can do whatever he wants. I guess among lesser orcs, an attraction of elves would be embarrassing.

actually I disagree with Alex

Orc Females have Mush Respect and Equality In orcish society as I see it

As Orc males are attracted to them not by looks but by Strength

Orc Female can become worriers

But that dose not make them as strong as males

as males are more built for it. But exceptions always happens and maybe some orc females can overpower males.

For Example female becoming a orkish Grandmother is a big honor and all orcs respect here even the Rex.

I think Orkish birth Rate tends to favor males over females. Males 70% Females 30%

Why evolution as the War Needs More Males.

For this Females are seen as Sacred and all orcs Die before one of there females is taken or killed.

[Urahra 5777]

There are female dwarves? Color me surprised. I haven't seen a single one. What do they even look like? But that's another topic for another day.

It seems we've moved away from mating in orc society to gender roles. But I guess the two are sort of tied together, so it makes sense that one would lead to another.

So, here's some more food for thought. How would an orc female be treated by society if she was discovered to be infertile?

[Sultan 3953]

There are female dwarves? Color me surprised. I haven't seen a single one. What do they even look like? But that's another topic for another day.

It seems we've moved away from mating in orc society to gender roles. But I guess the two are sort of tied together, so it makes sense that one would lead to another.

So, here's some more food for thought. How would an orc female be treated by society if she was discovered to be infertile?

This is some thing that needs mush thinking

to add something

Orc Females need to deem a Orc male Worthy if he wishes she to become his lifemate.

[Alex_Pan 112]

actually I disagree with Alex

Orc Females have Mush Respect and Equality In orcish society as I see it

As Orc males are attracted to them not by looks but by Strength

Orc Female can become worriers

But that dose not make them as strong as males

as males are more built for it. But exceptions always happens and maybe some orc females can overpower males.

For Example female becoming a orkish Grandmother is a big honor and all orcs respect here even the Rex.

I think Orkish birth Rate tends to favor males over females. Males 70% Females 30%

Why evolution as the War Needs More Males.

For this Females are seen as Sacred and all orcs Die before one of there females is taken or killed.

I was just throwing out suggestions that might work with how we've been playing on the server. Realistically we've had like 4 female orcs since the start of the server and a lot of us orcs claim to have bastard children so there has to be more females than people that rp females.

The other thing, is that unlike with "weak females", nobody goes up to Urura and asks for babies, but they do with elves and humans. I just figured it would make more sense for warrior females to not get pregnant because it sort of interferes with their ability to fight.

There are female dwarves? Color me surprised. I haven't seen a single one. What do they even look like? But that's another topic for another day.

It seems we've moved away from mating in orc society to gender roles. But I guess the two are sort of tied together, so it makes sense that one would lead to another.

So, here's some more food for thought. How would an orc female be treated by society if she was discovered to be infertile?

Dwarf females tend to look like humans, as far as skins go. I'd assume they're shorter and more stout... And less attractive.

As for infertility, I don't think that it's a big deal. Orcs have sex for fun and have complete disregard for contraception but being infertile could be considered a plus because you won't get pregnant. We could definitely get into the evolution of the role and status of infertile females but I don't think it's at all a pressing issue.

[Sultan 3953]

I was just throwing out suggestions that might work with how we've been playing on the server. Realistically we've had like 4 female orcs since the start of the server and a lot of us orcs claim to have bastard children so there has to be more females than people that rp females.

The other thing, is that unlike with "weak females", nobody goes up to Urura and asks for babies, but they do with elves and humans. I just figured it would make more sense for warrior females to not get pregnant because it sort of interferes with their ability to fight.

Dwarf females tend to look like humans, as far as skins go. I'd assume they're shorter and more stout... And less attractive.

As for infertility, I don't think that it's a big deal. Orcs have sex for fun and have complete disregard for contraception but being infertile could be considered a plus because you won't get pregnant. We could definitely get into the evolution of the role and status of infertile females but I don't think it's at all a pressing issue.

actually there no such thing as bastard children In orc society as there in no marriage.

No one gose up to Urara maybe not you... Also Orc males need to prove them selfs...

To have babys.. as you put it lol..

[Urahra 5777]

I believe it mentioned on the wiki (which may or may not be accurate) that orcs have short gestational periods. So instead of being pregnant for nine months, maybe it's more like five or six months. Which really isn't that long. And maybe they've developed so that it's REALLY hard to make an orc miscarry. So a pregnancy might not interfere with an orc female warrior too much. Not until the later stages, at least.

Gragarn and I were thinking that orcs who come together for the purpose of making babies would purposefully choose an extra strong mate. "You're strong, I'm strong. Therefore our offspring would be double strong" (not how genetics works, I know, but we're orcs, not biologists). That's the reason Gragarn and Urara are mates anyway - strong offspring. It's not because of love or lust. (I love him very much in real life, but this is in character.)

[Blawharag 277]

Thanks for that first post Hadley, exactly what I was looking for. I'll take the time to shape up the story before class.

I think I would enjoy writing a series of stories about various aspects of Orc culture, as well as maybe using that opportunity to flesh out Karthun & Mira's own story (I admit, Hadley pointed out my greatest fear I had when writing that Karthun and Mira weren't well defined and hard to stand behind. I felt rather constricted because #1 I didnt know how depth a story Mogroka wanted me to devote to this and #2 I was technically baby sitting my nephews at the time. There were no bruises or scrapes by the end of it so I guess that counts as having watched them, but it may have subtracted from the time devoted to the story a tiny bit.)

Once I finish fine tuning this one Ill probably write about birth. I had something a little different in mind as far as child rearing goes. Something along the lines of pulling him out of the wound and dropping him into a pit with a scorpion. Winner get to be raised by the Orcs, either as a warrior, or pet scorpion. That seems to me to have a much stronger symbolic approach that the Orcs would take. What? You're kids deformed? Well we could throw him off this cliff, but lets rather just make his childhood really REALLY difficult. If he survives, than he has every right to be here as the rest of us. You perfectly fit child died to the bull we pitted him against at 13? My half-retarded son even beat that bull, you child doesnt deserve life. No one will weep for him though, its just another fact of life.

P.S. On a side note, +10 points for seeing the Dothraki inspiration behind the original Orc mating ritual. I almost wanted to be as open and blatant as George Martin when it came to sex, but I feared getting banned from the forums :-D C'est la vie.

[Alex_Pan 112]

Something along the lines of pulling him out of the wound and dropping him into a pit with a scorpion. Winner get to be raised by the Orcs, either as a warrior, or pet scorpion. That seems to me to have a much stronger symbolic approach that the Orcs would take. What? You're kids deformed? Well we could throw him off this cliff, but lets rather just make his childhood really REALLY difficult. If he survives, than he has every right to be here as the rest of us. You perfectly fit child died to the bull we pitted him against at 13? My half-retarded son even beat that bull, you child doesnt deserve life. No one will weep for him though, its just another fact of life.

I think this pretty accurately describes how I think childhood should be. The only thing I never really thought about, is goblins and geniuses. Obviously, if we just breed strong people, smarter, smaller people will die off.

[Urahra 5777]

Yay, glad I could help!

But yeah, "show, don't tell" is your biggest worry. Never say "Karthun was a strong orc". Show us he's strong by having him beat up twenty other orcs. That's my only complaint, really. It was a bit of a problem in this story, but not a big enough problem to ruin it.

And there are ways to approach depictions of sex without being tasteless or vulgar. As long as you imply it without going into huge detail, I think you're fine.

[Blawharag 277]

Well the way I see rearing working is there must be a minimum level of physical prowess, goblin or otherwise, you need to be able to at least kill that first scorpion (a metaphor for future strength needed at a minimum). After that though open ended tests allow for wiggle room in how you go about your tasks. Instead of, "you fight the bull in an arena where you win or die" its "go out and kill this bull". Maybe you walk up to it, give it one outstanding punch, and drag its corpse back. Maybe you set a trap for it then kill it from safety. Maybe you even talk to the spirits and they tame the bull for you and you ride it back (which would count as passing the test, if you can dominate a foe you can kill it). So its all very open.

[Blawharag 277]

Soooo I edited the story. But its also midnight. On a night before school. So by "edited" and "fixed problems" I actually mean I added one paragraph in the beginning to contribute to that Show not Tell thing. I think I added some sentences in the second paragraph too, not really sure. I need a soda.

[Urahra 5777]

Good, good!

First sentence needs a comma.

<3

[Urahra 5777]

Oh, I thought of another question this morning!

How do orcs show affection?

I assume affection would only be shown in rare circumstances. Orcs seem to swap partners fairly often, so they probably don't form emotional bonds with their mates (unless they become life-mates). Displays of affection could probably be seen as weak as well. But, in those rare instances where two orcs love each other, how would they show it?

Do orcs hug? Kiss? Hold hands? Or are displays of affection a big social taboo?

[Ned Lud 1260]

Hugs, kisses and hand-holding should be big-time taboo. Orcs display their affection to their wives by beating them slightly less. To their brothers and sisters, affection is often displayed by various punches and bludgeonings, usually to the face, or bloody arena battles. It is also considered a term of endearment to comment on how ugly one's face is.