[✗] [Amendment] Lets Nerf Tawkin Again, Harsher PK clause edition

[Tentoa 3160]

Current:

Upon being taught the process of Kloning by a valid [TA] holder an edit designating knowledge of Kloning must be made to a users application to track that an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause.


Edit:

Upon being taught the process of Kloning, or The Recipe of the Juliet's Potion by a valid [TA] holder an edit designating knowledge of these must be made to a users application to track that an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause.

 

Reasoning:

Given that there has been concern by the Homunculi community that randoms could perchance grab them off the road with a rally of 12 and extremely poor RP - this will reduce the number of available juliet's potions which is a more decent compromise, but more importantly - The nature of the Juliet's potion as a means to cheat death and sever the soul from the body and the nature of Homunculi being flesh monstrosities that require a great deal of knowledge of the alchemical and anatomical, it should logically require that to make a Juliet's potion you need to acknowledge it's effects and that Klones exist and that to make a Homunculi you must first understand how to make an inanimate flesh vessal (klone) in the first place.

It stands to reason if you are capable of making an item that can PK a character sans their consent, you should also have some skin in the game and be on a similar PK clause, as has been precedent in other lore. If you want to play mad scientist, you should expect to pay the mad scientist's price


EDIT: It has been suggested to me in private that should this amendment pass that I urge the ST to permit people who know Juliet's without kloning to 'forget' they had it - following the precedent of the diety magic nerf. I think that's very fair, but I'm not the ST and ultimately it will be up to the green tags on how this should be implemented if at all.

[KeiaTypeBeat 3276]

8 minutes ago, Tentoa said:

If you want to play mad scientist, you should expect to pay the mad scientist's price

Goes hard, based 

[Air 911]

i didn’t know you could know juliet without kloning currently. thought it fell under needing to know kloning. kinda corny if someone was going around doing that. 

 

+1

[Gustando 1990]

this goes hard +1

[Cheese 8874]

I feel like homunculi creation deviates slightly from the need for a pk clause just due to the fact that knowing how to make a homunculus isn’t quite the same as making a vessel/juliet potion (in that it doesn’t effect you. Even if it’s the same logic of creating a vessel, i’m sure plenty of people could in theory learn how to make homunculi before knowing how to make klones)

 

The juliet potion part makes sense tho so +0.5

[Wolfy-D 466]

This just gives me a reason to never learn humonculi creation. I don't want a PK clause on myself when I purposefully don't learn kloning to avoid the PK clause.

 

Overall you had the right idea about making Juliet's potions more rare, but this is going to make anyone who can make humonculi but not klones probably immediately drop it.

 

-1

[Tentoa 3160]

19 minutes ago, Cheese said:

knowing how to make a homunculus isn’t quite the same as making a vessel/juliet potion

My counter to this is that animating empty flesh without a soul should be a more difficult process, building off of making an empty vessal that will be animated by a soul you didn't make. 

 

16 minutes ago, Wolfy-D said:

This just gives me a reason to never learn humonculi creation. I don't want a PK clause on myself when I purposefully don't learn kloning to avoid the PK clause.

 

Overall you had the right idea about making Juliet's potions more rare, but this is going to make anyone who can make humonculi but not klones probably immediately drop it.

 

-1

I'm okay with people dropping homunculi crafting. Frankly, the spirit of Tawkin lore is that this is mad scientist esoterica, and that to engage in the creation of these abominations, you are performing obscene acts against nature. The original intent of the lore is more or less Dr. Frankenstein/Full Metal Alchemist RP, I think you should commit or quit. 

There is moral excuse to learn grafting, moulding, and lesser mutations. They can be applied in a very helpful and humanitarian effort. They're very weird, they're very unnatural - but not bad. Who are you helping by making a soulless flesh automaton that desires only to consume and survive, never knowing love nor companionship? 

[KidKrinkles 2043]

I think a PK clause for knowing Homonculi is interesting because I agree with your comment about 'being a mad scientist, pay a mad scientist price'. It becomes a question of 'why is the PK clause there?'

 

I'm unsure the reasoning for the PK Clause in a lore-sense, OOCly. I've heard its because the Monks are proud, and if you can subvert their help, they basically tell you to eat shit.

 

I can't imagine the Monks are pissed you made something, though. If that ISN'T the reason, and, say, God is pissed you're makin' lil dudes? Yeah, 100%.

 

From a balance standpoint, I do hear Homonculi are one of the (if not the) strongest CA, and agree with a lot of the points made. That in mind, a PK-clause for knowing how to pump out the strongest little dudes makes sense there.

[Karina 1879]

1 hour ago, Air said:

i didn’t know you could know juliet without kloning currently. thought it fell under needing to know kloning. kinda corny if someone was going around doing that. 

 

+1

i dont think anyone HAS but the fear is they technically /could/. That said, I have never seen a Juliets potion in the wild that I have not crafted myself. 

[Tentoa 3160]

10 minutes ago, KidKrinkles said:

I'm unsure the reasoning for the PK Clause in a lore-sense, OOCly. I've heard its because the Monks are proud, and if you can subvert their help, they basically tell you to eat shit

My argument is more or less that making an empty vessel that your own soul will power is much easier to do than making an empty, freakish vessel that will be powered by nothing other than the will to live and will consistently regenerate forever until you feed it a specific potion and calcify it so you should learn kloning before you learn homunculi crafting.

I just think it's also more balanced, as if you're making and have the capability of making both the CA and the means for force PK it - you should be on an even playing field and also be capable of being PK'd. Fair is fair and it adds an extra potential narrative layer wherein creation and creator can both be at odds and meaningfully seek to kill one another ala Frankenstein and his Monster. 


Also @KarinaI more or less saw a worry of something POTENTIALLY happening amongst some Homunculi players and thought it could do with some addressing; it hasn't been a problem yet, but that doesn't mean we can't get ahead of it before someone gets silly with it

[KidKrinkles 2043]

17 minutes ago, Tentoa said:

My argument is more or less that making an empty vessel that your own soul will power is much easier to do than making an empty, freakish vessel that will be powered by nothing other than the will to live and will consistently regenerate forever until you feed it a specific potion and calcify it so you should learn kloning before you learn homunculi crafting.

I just think it's also more balanced, as if you're making and have the capability of making both the CA and the means for force PK it - you should be on an even playing field and also be capable of being PK'd. Fair is fair and it adds an extra potential narrative layer wherein creation and creator can both be at odds and meaningfully seek to kill one another ala Frankenstein and his Monster. 

I don't necessarily agree with the first paragraph, but I agree with where you end up.

Making a homonculi as a scientist is making life: through alchemy we make in a biological way. It has no soul or anything like that. It's functionally a flesh automaton. It's just chemicals and synapses firing off. It's a purely physical thing, as I read it, and it understands the physical world innately as a purely physical entity (Material Contrivance, if that's the right skill offhand, supports this).

 

Making a body for yourself is a lot like making a parachute: you can do everything right, and quality control it, but you won't know it works until you use it. If it fails, you do just die. That said, I'm not really trying to comment on the order of operations, and again, I come to the same conclusion as you: I don't mind a PK clause attached to the big tickets of Tawkin (making life, reincarnations, idk what a mutation is i have great jeans).

I guess where I disagree with you  (and correct me with I'm wrong) is that it seems like you think Kloning should just come first, and Homoculi and Juliet potions after, which would just HAVE a PK clause active as a result, so why not attach it to them? Though I return to my original question too: the lore reason for why the PK Clause is active should inform whether or not one is on Homonculi/Juliet Potions. If that's the case, then I would simply edit the text to some version of 'you gotta know Klones to make Homonculi'.

 

I think the inverse is the case: it makes more sense to me to learn Homonculi/Juliet first, but it's the first steps towards being able to reincarnate yourself, and that is a taboo that the monks don't want to see perpetuated. Additionally, I can make a hundred, thousand homonculi and **** them all up, BUT, it's all practice to making my own life all over.

Repeating what you said, mad scientist roleplay, mad scientist consequences. I **** with the amendment.
 

[Tentoa 3160]

2 minutes ago, KidKrinkles said:

I think the inverse is the case: it makes more sense to me to learn Homonculi/Juliet first, but it's the first steps towards being able to reincarnate yourself, and that is a taboo that the monks don't want to see perpetuated.
 

I like yours too, it may in fact be better justification than mine. Ultimately, it falls to ST discretion as to the WHY if this is accepted.

[KidKrinkles 2043]

2 minutes ago, Tentoa said:

I like yours too, it may in fact be better justification than mine. Ultimately, it falls to ST discretion as to the WHY if this is accepted.

 

Very fair, good amendment at the end of the day.

 

[King_Kunuk 3022]

I feel like slapping PK clause on homunculi and Juliet potion feels a bit silly, but I do approve of having those added to the fear in comments along with cloning.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

To be fair making a homunculus is the first step to making a pygmy and by extension a klone so it would follow the monks wouldn’t vibe. It is weird that the potion design to free your soul to reach its NEXT body didn’t automatically invoke the clause but oh well.

 

As long as people are given a chance to drop knowledge of homunclus and juliet’s I think it’s fine