A Orc?

[Aerinyes 402]

((Not going to quote you guys, since it'd make the post too long :P

But as for the Ancient Lore, the reason I don't see it binding is because quite frankly I don't see anything wrong with people deviating from the norm. I'm not saying that a Human should be long lived for example, or that an elfess can be pregnant every year. Its quite obvious that Humans are Short Lived, Dwarves are short, Elves have low birthrates, and Orcs are ugly. This doesn't need Ancient Lore to explain, its just naturally how the races are due to their environment and cultural tendencies.

If you've played any other fantasy, thats about how those races work. Its understood, accepted.

Now for someone saying Iblees is a nice guy. Why not? Are you saying the Black Hand is wrong for worshiping him? The Black Hand have added quite a bit of good RP to the server by going against the accepted Ancient Lore.

If we allowed it to bind us like you all are saying. All elves would be the same, just some with different anatomy. Same with the humans, the orcs, and the dwarves. That would get boring quick.

My biggest pet peeve is when people aren't unique with their characters. For example, one orc being weak and soft doesn't bother me. Really it doesn't. When 15 orcs show up in Laurelin like that, then it does and has bothered me.

I've been RPing online for over 12 years now, mostly in MMOS with far more in depth lore then this. Including World of Warcraft and both Everquest 1 and 2. All three games having more lore on a single character in their history then all of the lore put together in LotC. I know how to stay true to the lore, and I know how to interpret it.

I have read the lore thoroughly and it appears that some of you that claim to be experts have not... As here's this little snippit from the lore you've either not seen yet, or are omitting for some reason.

Some groups and cults believe in a different creation story, such as that of the Druids. There are also several recently uncovered documents showing that the Wizard’s account may not be the complete truth

Quoted from http://www.lordofthecraft.net/?page_id=10

And we all know, or should know that the Ancient History was written by the Wandering Wizard ICly.

That snippet I quoted means that the history is open to player interpretation until something is clear otherwise. And I have yet to see the lore in a game to this date detail a creation story to the letter as fact. I don't believe LotC will be different. But its up to Native to prove that wrong with a story.))

[Mucky 443]

{{ IM A WEAK COWARDLY ORC, I DONT LIKE ATTACKING PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE ARMED AND DANGEROUS, I WOULD TO IT THE COWARDLY WAY IF I WAS REALLY ANGRY AND UPSET WITH THEM, I WOULD PROBABLY ATTACK THEM IN THERE SLEEP, AND I CAN BE HALF HUMAN, OR ELF TO CALM THE BLOODLUST }}

[Blawharag 277]

((Primarily I would like to say that the ancient lore is not a creation myth because the information is entirely gained through an OOC channel. If someone was preaching this IC than yes, you could reasonably assume they are preaching a creation myth, or that is their specific religion. However, no one is saying this IC, save maybe shaman who are speaking with Krug. Because the information is in a seperate OOC section that details "The History of Aegis" it can only be taken as fact. There is no reasonable room for interpretation.

I think a group of cowardly Orcs collecting in Malinor is an excellent point for RP. However, they must remember they have bloodlust. We Orcs, being a culture that has dealt with our bloodlust for centuries understand that these cowardly Orcs will eventually resort to killing in sleep if they are left unchecked, so we seek to destroy them. Meanwhile the Elves, unwilling to let innocents be harmed, defend them. So many RP possibilities could come from it. War, or maybe a coward Orc kills a prince or someone while they sleep confirming the Krugmar Orc suspicions. Endless possibilities.

There is however a fine line between a fun RP opportunity and a ruined experience. If these "coward orcs" do not roleplay their bloodlust, they arent really Orcs, are they? I don't care if that's how you want to RP, but change your race to an Elf. If you are going to be an Orc, accept the entire package. There are different races to fit your different RP styles. Don't pick one that is blatantly the opposite and try to corrupt and demonize it into your own thing at the expense of others gratification of RP. I actually have a hard time role playing when I am faced with a long line of Orcs who are perverting my race for literally no reason other than to bastardize it. The RP is acceptable under all the other races. Just not Orcs.))

[Aerinyes 402]

((I think you're taking the whole ordeal way too personally. If you don't like how someone RP's their orc, then avoid them. Aegis is a big place, you won't need to deal with them all the time if at all. Their character being vastly different then yours will not frequent the same locations.

I think you need to take a step back and/or take a small break. Something as simple as this shouldn't be that upsetting, no matter how many people do it. This is precisely the reason I take a live and let live approach most of the time.

I would like to point out that I do somewhat agree with you about the full package thing. But people will play their characters however they wish. We can protest it till we're blue in the face, but in the end, it means little.))

[Bawg 494]

"And you Krug, the most hated of The Descendants, you shall always have the lust of war. You are strong? Well the strength shall be used against your brothers, used to pillage and murder! Your lust for battle shall be unsatisfied and your descendants shall grow ugly and heartless.”

There is no real need for a Ban Report or anything, though we would like him to stick with the lore. He can be a coward, we don't care. We ask for him to still act as if he is a orc. For Christ's Sake, we are under a Curse! We cannot stop it, nor deny it. We live to kill, and if you are a orc, that cannot fight well. Then you belong with the Shamans, though most Shamans can fight with axe and staff. Weak Orcs study the ways of the Planet they live upon. They go through training, and learn the ways of Nature, and her beauty. To then ask for Krug to rain his rage upon those who dare to oppose us. We are only so tough with our roleplay is, because ever since I had joined the server(5 months ago). The Orcs always got the short end of the stick. We are the smallest population, our capital is tiny compared to Kal'Urguan or Laurelin. We try to keep new orcs from exploring the rest of the world, so they don't later decide to be with another race. The Orcs have a Curse. They should abide to that. The rule is to stick to the lore, and it is constantly broken. All we are asking, is that he roleplays with even a minor lust for fighting, and a small desire to want to be painted with the blood of his enemies.

Continue, roleplaying friends. No need for fighting is here. We are all one community.

[Noahjam325 53]

((the biggest problem is that because these players are being allowed to powergame it makes them an example for new players, and then further dilutes the canon lore. You can kick and scream all day long, but it is the very definition of powergaming. The more these orcs shove themselves into the limelight the more it becomes an example for new players and then makes them break the lore even further.))

[Aerinyes 402]

((the biggest problem is that because these players are being allowed to powergame it makes them an example for new players, and then further dilutes the canon lore. You can kick and scream all day long, but it is the very definition of powergaming. The more these orcs shove themselves into the limelight the more it becomes an example for new players and then makes them break the lore even further.))

Explain to me how its powergaming when the very page that has such lore also says the lore may not be correct:

http://www.lordofthecraft.net/?page_id=10

And a picture for those of you who can't be bothered to click a link:

[Blawharag 277]

(("Some groups or cults believe in a different creation story".

Let me explain to you what that means. It means that there are groups and cults IC that have an IC belief that the world started in a different fashion. IC. That's perfectly fine. You can believe whatever you want IC. If you want to get up IC and say "The flying purple spaghetti monster created the world and the one-eyed one-horned flying purple people eater is his arch nemisis" good, all the power too you. Your character can believe that. However, I will repeat a point I made earlier:

The information on the wiki is gained through an OOC channel. It is the "True" creation story. Not everyone's character will believe this is the way it happened IC. Some characters maybe have a religion in which they believe this spaghetti monster created the world, but that doesn't make spaghetti monsters cannon lore. The cannon lore is the creation story regarding the four brothers. IC religions have no effect on that. Ever. It doesn't say "This creation story may not be true." It says "Some cults may believe otherwise". As in, they mistakenly believe otherwise and are allowed to do so. Unfortunately however, believing the spaghetti monster created the world does not get you off the hook for having curses apply to your character. Therefore, you can make this spaghetti monster cult, but if you refuse to RP your curses you are still powergaming. Powergaming because you are specifically ignoring a debilitating effect your character possesses.

Furthermore, I reject the idea that these coward orcs can be simply ignored. The very fact that they have integrated themselves into society means they will affect me in one way or another. Even if I never see one personally in character, their actions will have farther reaching consequences. It will serve as an example for other people to make Orcs who refuse bloodlust. Some random passerby through Krugmar may rail us for being bloodthirsty and complain that we should stop killing each other because "these other Orcs can do it, why can't you?". The fact of the matter is, as long as they exist, I, and the rest of the Orcs who do not powergame, will be affected by them.))

[Noahjam325 53]

((Because if there is no standard, we get what Craotor said. All of that is for in-character, and like Blaw said, we get this info OOC. For instance; in-character we can believe whatever we want. I could be a shaman that thinks he talks to Iblees' Grandmother, but in truth they would just be spirits. That doesn't mean my character can't BELIEVE he's talking to Iblees' Grandmother. You're not separating the difference between OOC and IC knowledge. Your personal character can believe it's a Creation Myth, but that doesn't make their belief fact. If we allow players to make up their own creation, and then roleplay using that then we have what Craotor described. There needs to be a standard or everybody can make up anything they want. As multiple people have suggested you can be a cowardly orc, that just means you kill in cowardly ways. So not every orc needs to be a hulking monster, but there is a standard. Also, if the Lore created doesn't count, then we should remove all questions about the Lore from our application. You're saying the lore doesn't affect us because people should be allowed to do whatever they want. So if you believe this, then we should also remove the lore questions from the application because the lore doesn't matter.

I would also like to point out that you haven't addressed Blawharag's notice about the App Boards. He brought up that the App team is actually talking about powergaming right now, and are trying to fix the problem you're perpetuating. The definition of powergaming is doing something your character shouldn't be able to do, forcing another person's character to do something, or ignoring your character's flaws. If you're ignoring the curse given to your character, then you're ignoring a flaw and doing something your character shouldn't be able to do. Your character doesn't have to believe the curse exists, but they still need to enact on it. That it where the creativeness of the roleplayer comes in. A good roleplayer can take this flaw and make good and unique characters out of it. I go back to the example that a few people have already made. You can be "kind" or "weak" but that also means the Bloodlust affects you differently. No matter what you should have it.

I think another thing not being considered is one of the reasons the curses exist. It's not a tool used to just beat people with. It's a tool to make the races different. If we just removed the curses, then there's no reasons we should even have a race option. The curses are one of the few traits that actually give uniqueness to the different races, when you don't take it into consideration then you're watering down the system and hurting the roleplay of the server. Especially when you decide to enforce that on others (which many do). Without curses we have no need to even make separate races, because they're all just humans with different skin colors. The curses are what allow an Orc living in Laurelin to be different than an elf. It's that little subtle (or sometimes not subtle) difference that makes for fun and unique roleplay. If you play a weak orc living in Laurelin then it dilutes the RP of everybody there. If you roleplay as a weak orc with sporadic violent outbursts, but you are a "stand up" member of the community, then it turns into an interesting event. If we're being allowed to make up lore and ignore the standards set before us, then we need to just remove all the different races. The more this problem gets ignored, the worse it's going to get.))

[Sultan 3953]

((Look guy, accusation of powergaming is a pretty serious thing. Either make the ban report, or sit down and shut up. Because its not a fine line, its a binary thing, either they broke a rule or they didn't.

Its a very well known fact that there is a group of orc players that bully other orc players into playing them how they think they should be played.

But I'm going to tell you something, you're not doing it here. So either get the stones and put up the ban reports or go back to your own little world. You say you're not a jerk about how people play their characters, if that was the case, then you wouldn't have made the post. Its not affecting you, its not affecting anyone else. I don't see you crying foul about people playing murlocs and vampires since those aren't on the lore page either.))

(Watch how you write things and don’t cause a flame war, with some ill found words. This is a warning.)

[Jutra 51]

I found myself in a similar situation - I've made an orc who was raised by halflings - she's tiny and while I wouldn't say she was a weaking or timid but she woudo't never ever win a fight against anyone and she knows it. She a farmer not a fighter. My app passed first go round and I thought I was set - but then I kept reading about this bloodlust curse and while I did read about before I made my character - I didn't give it much thought. So now I have to rework my little orc a bit. I'm going to try to let her play it out her blood lust by having her take her anger out on the livestock she raises - it's still a challenge for her to kill a cow.

I really think my app should have been denied seeing as it ran against so much of the orc lore.

As far as if the lore is true or not - I'd like to remind people that lore, religion etc is there to explain what is - the LOTC lore explains why humans don't live long lives, why orcs have bloodlust, why elves have low birth rates and why dwarves are short. So whether it's because of a curse or not - it's still fact that being an orc means you got bloodlust - maybe it stronger or weaker in some orcs but you got it, being an elf means you not going to be the parents of a brood of kids, If your a dwarf you're going to be short (how short depends but you are still short compared to the other races) and if your human - ya going to die sooner or later if not by murder or accident then natural causes.

What you are given here is good feedback - I wish I had it before I started playing my orc.

Jutra

[Austin 697]

Edited**** ((Huuki try to put Bloodlust into your RP, like perhaps your being bullied by a bunch of orcs, instead of challenging them to a Duel, go to them while they sleep and attack them or something like that))

[Niso 91]

Huuki, i imagine your character as a 2 year old human baby....

This is not the Race for you.

[Ned Lud 1260]

Jutra, your orc and your role-play is amazing, even though I've only run across you briefly IC. Don't sweat the details. I've read quite a few of your writings and it's a very interesting and welcome addition to the orcish community. Just roll with it, I'm curious to see where it goes.

The problem is weak orcs that deviate radically from the norm and have very little lore and history developed for their character. Hukki, no offense, but even mid-way through this discussion you're like "Idk, maybe I'm half-human or half-elf, idk." You need to give this some more thought.

As for the weak orcs, we just need to start policing our own, and by policing I mean killing them brutally and letting our cubs eat their flesh.

[Sultan 3953]

(Opal, killing live stock is a great Idea to act on your bloodlust. :mrgreen: )