[Ooc] [Oren] Criteria For Nobility

[Aetosion 2062]

[[ Right, so we've been running into an issue. We have 6 or 7 houses that are landed, but haven't been named as noble by a King. Why is this? In most situations, nobility is conferred by the reigning monarch along with lands and titles. However, many new baronies and viscounties have been created without the monarch's explicit knowledge nor approval.

 

This means that you now have the Houses Hrak, Heinzreich, Sato, Tyrnaiis, Vekon, di Silvari, and Herenden as being landed houses without noble status. 

 

This is an awkward situation, arising out of the creation of several new vassal-demesnes by local feudal lords without the approval, nor blessing of the Crown. While that does not render these Houses nor their lands illegitimate, it just means their nobility isn't recognized by the Kingdom (nor are their lands, unless reported in the Stewardship thread).

 

So, I've devised a new plan to solve this problem, and have received the approval of the privy council in its implementation. This only applies to houses which are newly created and not listed in the Official Nobility thread, and not to existing noble houses.

 

To gain the status of nobility, a head of household will need to gain audience with the King and petition for nobility, but can only do so if:

-The House has at least 3 active persons playing nobles.

-The House has at least 5 active persons playing commoner vassals (can include bannermen sent off to the militaries).

-The House has at least one member that's a feudal landholder (Baron, Viscount, Count, etc.) .

-The House has a complete house thread ready to be posted on the forums, fitting the format of existing house threads (which include a number of pieces of information about the house itself).

-The House's representative in the King's court can present a convincing argument for nobility.

 

These regulations will serve to both regulate quality within newly created houses, to encourage a higher ratio of commoner:noble RP,  and to get the houses petitioning for nobility so that landowning houses are noble (as they should all of have been, except we've been seeing a lot of these feudal lands created without the King being notified or present for any ceremonies.]]

[ImpinAintEZ 442]

((I think this is all well and good, but I think it would probably be best to see if the part of having 5 commoner vassals can be removed. I personally think there are way too many military groups in Oren as it is. I know that bannermen have all become part of the Royal Army, but I think it would still be unneeded. What if the Noble House doesn't plan on making a settlement on his/her land that needs defending. If I end up becoming a Noble I would just put a farm and a manor on my land because I wouldn't want to break up RP. In that case I would not need any soldiers or citizens and I wouldn't really care to have a farmer because I would just farm the land myself.))

[3andD 1722]

(( The law was brainstormed so that you don't have useless noble houses, if you cannot provide levies or tax then why should you be a noble house? ))

[Alphalord 31]

((So basically now, my house was made nobility by Horen, which I'm pretty he did but he never made a post about if for some reason, is now not noble?))

[Aetosion 2062]

((I think this is all well and good, but I think it would probably be best to see if the part of having 5 commoner vassals can be removed. I personally think there are way too many military groups in Oren as it is. I know that bannermen have all become part of the Royal Army, but I think it would still be unneeded. What if the Noble House doesn't plan on making a settlement on his/her land that needs defending. If I end up becoming a Noble I would just put a farm and a manor on my land because I wouldn't want to break up RP. In that case I would not need any soldiers or citizens and I wouldn't really care to have a farmer because I would just farm the land myself.))

((Right, this is in part to ask that there are more commoners than nobles within a House's lands. However, this is quite realistic in the period. Why would a King grant nobility to a guy and his pet kitten? Unless a family presents some use to the crown, as Aiim said, levies and taxes, it is unreasonable to make them noble.

 

Now, by "commoner vassals", I'm also referring to farmers or merchants or some other sort of individual that works in service of the House, but is not themselves a noble man. Again, this is in an effort to restore equilibrium to an overly-noble state.

 

While I understand you would like to have no citzens, no farmers, no soldiers, and sound rather anti-social, a couple noblemen tending to a land as vast as a barony is unreasonable. It is furthermore just silliness to prohibit the establishment of a settlement within a barony, however you can still settle your noted commoner vassals in some other structure if allowed by the owner (buy a couple Abresi houses, etc.) and you have a reason for not using the land you were given. RPly, a noble with just a farm and manor on his land would still have several servants, a groundskeeper, a chef, etc. etc.

 

If you want to live in a house alone, then you should give your lands to a relative and let them deal with it, but nobility has this sort of thing that's generally considered a "perk", and that's to have people working for them. Oren has gotten unrealistically based in a bunch of nobles and not enough commoners in support of them, this is something we intend to fix both OOCly and RPly.))

 

 

((So basically now, my house was made nobility by Horen, which I'm pretty he did but he never made a post about if for some reason, is now not noble?))

((You're going to need to send a bird to the King or gain audience with him in the throne room. While I appreciate your plight, anyone can claim that someone said something if there's no record of it and the speaking party is unreachable. If you can provide any proof of your claim, speak with the King. If not, speak with the King. I'm sure we can work something out in your case.))

[ImpinAintEZ 442]

((Right, this is in part to ask that there are more commoners than nobles within a House's lands. However, this is quite realistic in the period. Why would a King grant nobility to a guy and his pet kitten? Unless a family presents, as Aiim said, levies and taxes, it is unreasonable to make them noble. Now, by "commoner vassals", I'm also referring to farmers or merchants or some other sort of individual that works in service of the House, but is not themselves a noble man. Again, this is in an effort to restore equilibrium to an overly-noble state.))

I'm sure it seems realistic, but it causes the problem of spreading RP. With the amount of Barons there are now, it'll just make it harder for them to get people and if they get people then it will spread RP. And with the taxes part, right now The Capital doesn't even tax the residence and hasn't taxed for about 1-2 months now. And the equilibrium between nobles and citizens is very stable at the moment. I own a tavern with a citizen character and basically all of my customers have been citizens. Oren has probably a 35%-40% noble playerbase and a 60%-65% citizen playerbase.

 

Another solution is to make sure any new settlements are very close to the capital so that the RP is still centralized to that area.

[Aetosion 2062]

I'm sure it seems realistic, but it causes the problem of spreading RP. With the amount of Barons there are now, it'll just make it harder for them to get people and if they get people then it will spread RP. And with the taxes part, right now The Capital doesn't even tax the residence and hasn't taxed for about 1-2 months now. And the equilibrium between nobles and citizens is very stable at the moment. I own a tavern with a citizen character and basically all of my customers have been citizens. Oren has probably a 35%-40% noble playerbase and a 60%-65% citizen playerbase.

 

Another solution is to make sure any new settlements are very close to the capital so that the RP is still centralized to that area.

[[i'm aware that we're due for the 9th tithe, and I've spoken to the Treasurer about it. As for centralizing RP to feudal lands adjacent to the capital, there are still several duchies which would logically have their own metropolitan regions, and we would prefer that the noble houses present activity in their own right rather than having a notable lack of evidenced RP and activity. And I'm unsure what forcing new settlements to be built in territories adjoining to Abresi will do to solve any of the issues we're working towards with this regulation. In response to making it more difficult for barons to get people, this

 

A. Only applies if the individual or house is attempting to become noble. If they're not, this is not necessary. This law will only effect a handful of minor territories if they wish to petition for nobility.

 

B. This regulation will, as you alluded to, make it more difficult for minor lords attempting to become nobility to do so. This is intentional.

 

C. Having gone through a similar process when House Winter began to be active again following our extended hiatus the began at the open of the Anthos map and ended only a few weeks prior to the Urguan/Oren war, I can tell you that it's not overly difficult to get vassals if you take your time and have a good idea of the players you're intending to recruit. If a prospective noble family finds this task to be extremely discouraging, refer to point B.]]

[Aptrotta 162]

(( I will try to get the Tithe posted soon. My mother has gone bonkers and grounded me for the res if summer, then added another two months for asking why... I am trying toget everything settled out so I can get back on and post it))

[bickando 3967]

((The exiled houses cheer over the lessening in number of Oren Houses.))

[everblue2er101 906]

Moved to the Great Library. It shall be sorted into appropriate category shortly.