Should The Rebellion Continue?

[Major Dom 1297]

Yes, Because any smart king would happily welcome rebels back with open arms.

 

[[umm... what? I don't get what that was in response to...?]]

[Shadowjax 140]

Though I hate to repeat exactly what Senda said, he was right on target with saying that your plans for when you take charge are rather vague. The fact that you're doubting yourself only adds to the notion that you may not be fit for leadership of a nation; even going so far as to asking for OOC approval. 

 

While I don't know if you're just playing misguided in RP, Cracker has done nothing to warrant the descriptor of "tyrannical" or "malevolent". He performed the extremely difficult task of uniting Oren and centralizing RP within it through destruction of ghost towns and inefficient feudal titles. 

 

Tarus does not exactly have the best reputation for leading the human race, whereas "Team Carrion" has taken the initiative in 'doing what needs to be done'. Whether or not you dispute this as your in-game character is unknown to me, but it is clear your rebellion has a large OOC component due to your approval-seeking.

 

Honestly, do you believe that in the unlikely chance that you succeed in this rebellion, the extremely large amount of loyalists will just stop what they were doing and swear fealty? You'd likely continue a cycle of rebellions and independent houses vying for control while getting nothing done.

 

Note: I'm speaking purely in OOC terms as for what benefits the human race; if he can manage to do any of this in RP then IDGAF

[Googlesearch 141]

[[. I'm just saying give it some time and try to work with us before you automatically assume we are horrible leaders and try to overthrow us.]]

 

Not really possible to come back after you rebel unless the king is an idiot

[Major Dom 1297]

Not really possible to come back after you rebel unless the king is an idiot

[[Nobody was suggesting that...?]]

[Googlesearch 141]

Well you said "Try to work with us" that kinda seems like you did

[empirerebel 305]

If a good leader would lead the rebellion I'd like it. 

[Swgrclan 2682]

While I'm not particularly pleased by the fact that another 'rebellion' had popped up whilst one was in the works and was in-motion, do as you will. There's enough in-character reasoning for an 'uprising' despite it's leaders being House Tarus, as House Carrion's actions before it's ascension to rule were not the most impressive ones; but the point at-hand is, is that OOC should not halt major nation-oriented events such as this so easily. Continue wreaking havoc.

[Aetosion 2062]

((I voted yes, but only because a point needs to be made that rebellions will fail, and I think it'll be fun.

My opinions are well expressed by the below quote.))

[[sure, some of us may like to have some fun on the forums, but I believe, as I'm sure many others will agree with, that the Carrion dynasty has done the best job of ruling the humans since Emperor Godfrey. Cracker runs an amazing central government, Senda and Chump are masters of planning, and Iorwen is trying to reintroduce the church as a big part of peoples' lives as the human lore says it should be. Like Godwein and Senda said, if you truly want to help the race, build it up from the inside, try to get a position in the government, don't lead some rebels and the Elvish communists to take it over. Part of the reason the government is so difficult to handle is because we've gone through something like a rebellion each month and the rebels give no time for the government to become stable. Godfrey's empire was so good because he was an admin so nobody rebelled against him, and so he had more than enough time to make good changes and policies. On that note, the rebellion is IC so you should do it because of IC opinions. I'm just saying give it some time and try to work with us before you automatically assume we are horrible leaders and try to overthrow us.]]

[Cracker 4570]

Well you said "Try to work with us" that kinda seems like you did

 

You can always make a new character or attempt to "bend the knee" as many rebels before Godfrey have done in the past. I'm not saying it will work, but it's an option depending on the severity of your crimes.

 

As for the rebellion as a whole, I share the same stance as Aetosion. OOCly I think there is little to no justification for a Tarus rebellion of Oren, but I'll gladly fight it to prove a point. Let's look at the IC speech in the Tarus Rebellion warclaim.

 

“Today we gather as one. Today we answer the call of the people.

There is no one IN Oren who you are answering the call to. No one in Oren actually supports you attempting to swoop in and "try to fix things."

 

For far too long the Carrions have ruled over Oren with a tyrannical leader. They live with the blood of the people on their hands. They care nothing of the voice that cries out beneath their feet as they walk all over their own citizens.

House Carrion reunited Oren non-violently, a feat which I still am surprised to do (when planning out the unification process I expected at least a few warclaims) I could understand that the former relationship with House Blackmont/House Flay could unsettle people, but RPly both those Houses are long gone.

 

We will not let this go unanswered. It is our time to rise up and strike down this Carrion Dictator. Join me brothers as we ride into the face of war. Stand strong for our cause is far greater than the sword that aims to strike you down. Never back down to a giant, no matter how big he might be.

Pure fluff. It is ironic on some level because I am on good terms with every human nation leader who's kingdom was annexed. 

 

 Our voice will be heard. The people’s voice will ring louder than ever. We fight so that others might enjoy freedom and peace. We fight for the rights we deserve. We fight for the people. We fight to end tyranny forever. For glory and honor, we ride!

"The people" and "the others" don't want your freedom and peace in Oren. It's more of an invasion then an actual rebellion.

 

OOCly, a successful rebellion would lead to the exact opposite of humanity's progress; the nobility would fracture, various factions would splinter the kingdoms, and people like Senda and Hobo wouldn't have a stable enough platform to plan and execute civilian planning.

 

To many, including myself, it seems like a half-hearted ill-thought attempt at grabbing some power as your only excuse that it being anything else: 'it will have an elective monarchy and a high king because Emperors are evil!" is half-hearted at best because that is not the flaw in Oren's structure at the moment. \There is no difference between a High King and Emperor in governing humanity aside from name and the real problem is a lack of stability and leadership due to banned players / players unable to get on to administer IG reforms and help newbs out in making Abresi and Oren a more fluid medieval RP atmosphere. This issue can OOCly only be fixed with time, not chaotic rebellions which only accentuate the issue.

 

Not that it really matters, as I said, I urge you to push the rebellion because it would make no sense ICly to drop all your weapons, and OOCly I think it would be something fun to crush to let other potential rebellions think twice.

 

Also, I do not think it is fair for you to assume that House Carrion's achievements in reunifying five distinct human kingdoms from dwarf rule, dispelling 10+ noble houses, and finding the right people in power to administer and reform the country such as Hobo + Senda should be something "that anyone could do." I have yet to see anything similar to be done on any of your characters, so shrugging off all the time House Carrion has spent plotting and planning out the reunification process is ignorant and doesn't reflect well on your understanding of how much effort a nation leader has to put in to make a nation work.

[Altiak 1648]

I wholeheartedly agree with Cracker on this matter. Rebellions do have the potential of engendering amusement and activity, but only if such an uprising retains a legitimate and solid reason for occurring. In this case, I wouldn't deem your cause as rightful due to the prosperity and general welfare of Oren and its populace. Your incentive against the Carrions is simply fraudulent and trivial.

[Esterlen 4499]

At the moment, Oren has achieved a significant state of stability and relative prosperity under the Carrion Vochna. Call it despotic or authoritarian all you want, but the fact of the matter is Oren has returned to a point in which it's fun to roleplay within once again. We, as a state, are progressing exceedingly well. If this rebellion is so you might 'fix' things in the kingdom, then I see no cause for fixing.

 

I know it's cool to play the rebel, but there are a multitude of forums in which a character or characters may voice their concerns to the government both OOC and IC instead of immediately arming yourselves for war. The whole concept of 'I don't get what I want, ergo I rebel' is an age-old human OOC philosophy that I'm frankly getting tired of. If you wanted change, then you should have actually tried to make some change through legitimate methods as opposed to instantly uprising against supposed 'tyranny'.

 

Furthermore, your claim cannot be recognized as righteous or just by any stretch of the term. The Tarus dynasty formed a loosely-bound constituent realm of the Holy Oren Empire on which our peerage is based, yes, but you must also take into account that Tarus rule was some of the worst in the history of humanity. The country was at its absolute weakest, hammered by every surrounding entity, and it was about to be completely annexed until the royal family and King Tarus jumped ship and Godfrey took charge. Tarus had no part whatsoever in the reunification of humanity, the forming of the Holy Oren Empire, and its successor, the Imperium.

 

As well as that, the state formed by Tarus and his vassals no longer exists. It was the basis of the Empire, yes, serving as a metaphorical launch pad, but Renatus as we know it is no longer a real entity, not even as a feudatory. You're claiming the unified realm of humanity...whereas Tarus only had a very unimportant role in the grand scheme of unification, given they only formed one third of the human nations after the shattering of Oren. This would be akin to myself returning on a scion of House de Sarkozy and leading an armed rebellion seeking the throne of Ruska, since 'Ruska was made up of several territories, one of which used to be mine'.

 

To me it just seems like you would like to be a nation leader for the power of it. There is nothing that needs to be majorly remedied in Oren, no heroic and rightful cause championed by you, and no outrageous totalitarianism displayed by us.

 

"I hate empires lol" and "Um they're tyrants" is not nearly enough justification for a full-scale uprising.

[Vekrus 396]

[Alright I just have a few things to say. First, I think I have been misunderstood. The reason for this post was to RPly show my character asking people around Anthos if they wish to see a rebellion go on. As a some of you have said to stick to what your character wants to do RPly, that is what I have been doing. I think the OOC got a little out of hand as the responses were supposed to be RP instead of OOC. I probably should have clarified that, my bad.

 

Second, I do owe an apology to Cracker and AiiM. I did not mean to call you guys out as I did. You guys worked really hard and did a great job getting to where you are now. What I mean't to say is other people are capable of pulling off what you guys did with Oren. Not trying to degrade you guys at all, but that was the message I was trying to relay as some people think it could've only happened if you guys where in charge. That honestly just isn't true. Many others have great leadership skills and could accomplish the same feat. Again, I am sorry if I sound rude or anything I truly don't mean to. Just trying to shine some light on the matter.

 

Finally, as to my plans if the rebellion succeeds. Like I said earlier I don't want to OOCly post everything I am going to do as my character is not one to let out all his plans. I know this means you have to take a leap of faith, but I promise you I do have good plans. If you want someone to confirm that I do just ask Kais or Onslaughted. Also, as you have heard before the RP reasons for my character rebelling are that he believes the citizens of Oren want the rebellion and does not hold the Carrions in the highest regard due to his past experiences with them and their involvement with the Flays. I hope this answers a lot of your guys questions. Now lets get some RP posts in here now.]

[Aetosion 2062]

((I'm sorry Vekrus, mate, but if you intended to gauge RP response, you probably shouldn't have prefixed your thread [OOC].

That aside, I think you've gotten a pretty good representation of peoples' opinions. Not many support your cause, in large part because there is no real declared cause. This is seen by post as an attempt to grab yourself a nation, not liberate the people who are over all remarkably content with Carrion rule. Most who voted that the rebellion should continue are, as outlined in their posts, not supporting your rebellion, but instead are advocating the RP it would bring.))

[Draeris 3124]

I don't see the whole point in this discussion. de Rosaens are in the rebellion because they want to reform the world into their ideology, with perfect education and the quest to cure the curses. The Carrion Dynasty might have been the best yes, but I don't think that we should avoid any uprisings just because they were. If Vekrus fails to rule the kingdom IF we win this uprising, Carrions can always start an uprising themselves?

 

Either way, Rosaens have a very deep and thought out reason why they are striking arms to their own kin, The Tarus'  merely want their dynasty back. We shouldn't be so scared for change, or act demented like Knox. See the RP possibilties in the rebellion. We really shouldn't consider rebellions and each uprising a mere joke, it is a full dynamic world, and it is humanity after all.

[hellfiazz 879]

((Saying that the rebellion should go ahead because even if it turns out to be a crappy government, which let's be honest, it will be compared to Carrion, it can always just be taken back by Carrion, is quite frankly ignorant. If you do prove to be a crappy government, then you'll be a crappy government built upon shattered foundations due to the rebellion itself. Then, Carrion will have to try and fix that once they would take the throne back. You would be putting Oren into a time of chaos because you want the crown, and a chaotic Kingdom is bad for RP, especially if it's the Kingdom of one of, if not the single most, active race in LOTC.

No it's not worth it, but quite frankly, I'd like to see a war to get involved in, and with both us Orcs and Oren against your rebels, then it should be pretty entertaining for us at least. So go ahead, but don't win. :D ))