Pvp Rules?

[SortedJarhead 817]

That still doesn't stop some of the problems, you can still be confronted by three armored people, they demand PvP and you're done. And telling someone to not RP a character of their choice isn't fair. I could just as easily say "Don't worship the Creator in Abresi" for the same effect, everyone has a right to RP where they please with the character of their choice with at least a decent chance of defending themselves. In an attempt to stop PG in RP they created PG in PvP; it should be more regulated.

 

If three men came up to you in armour and you RP fought you'd still be dead. You will never be able to win 3 men by yourself.

[Lym 849]

That still doesn't stop some of the problems, you can still be confronted by three armored people, they demand PvP and you're done. And telling someone to not RP a character of their choice isn't fair. I could just as easily say "Don't worship the Creator in Abresi" for the same effect, everyone has a right to RP where they please with the character of their choice with at least a decent chance of defending themselves. In an attempt to stop PG in RP they created PG in PvP; it should be more regulated.

 

 

If your character presents himself as a villain in public, then you have to consider the outcome.

Possible outcomes:

• get pimpsmacked in RP
• get wrecked in PvP
• get ignored
• -insert other outcomes I'm too lazy to list here-

After seeing you and your friend roleplay in Abresi two days ago and pulling the most edgy thing I've witnessed so far in Abresi (I was secretly hoping only Malinor is contaminated), you shouldn't be surprised when being confronted ICly about your character's actions by a group of five heavily armored dudes looking forward to smack you.

 

"Everyone has a right to rp where they please" is something I can agree with.

"^ with at least a decent chance of defending themselves" is not the case at all. You don't walk into Krugmar as a Halfling and expect to be treated nicely ICly either.

 

In a world where players interact with each other, chances are you'll receive a harsh pvp-beating at some point and it's only realistic and natural. It is, in fact, part of Roleplay just like everything else.

[Major Dom 1297]

No. No no no no no. Karupt, I have seen you roleplay in Abresi and the reason people attack you is because you and your friend wear shadowy red and black robes with hoods, run on the rooftops, and use magic openly; all three of which are strictly illegal in the city. You can't expect to go to a place like New York City, wear a turban and a suspicious vest strapped to you, and run around screaming "ALLAHU ACKBAR" and carrying an AK-74U, then when the police come to arrest you be all like "dude wtf let me terrize freely im guna contact UN nd maek it so polise half 2 w8 til i finish mi thing b4 they arest!!!!!!" because that's basically exactly what you're doing in Abresi. Seriously though? If you don't want to get attacked, don't provoke everyone! 

[Cyndikate 2303]

I find this thread amusing.

*eats popcorn*

[Wavejammers 328]

This can only end wrong.

[KarRuptAssassin 16]

If we're going to be discussing what people do in the city, I've also seen Guard being corrupt and killing people just because they feel like it. And I understand that there will be points in time when you have to be attacked and take the beatings, but I don't believe that makes it okay for someone to see that you'd have the advantage in an RP fight and then switch to PvP. If everyone has to take beatings once and awhile then how come only a select few individuals are actually taking the fights?

[KarRuptAssassin 16]

Also by pointing out what I do in roleplay is just ignoring the fact that PvP becomes an issue when mages are involved, or when it is used because you know you'll automatically win. If you rather we have no regulation for it that's fine, but when a huge group of people come in to a battle strictly for the purpose of knowing that they'll win and be able to take the other person's stuff is powergaming, plain and simple.

[Major Dom 1297]

you'd have the advantage in an RP fight and then switch to PvP.

 

This isn't the case though. 

[Lym 849]

If you rather we have no regulation for it that's fine, but when a huge group of people come in to a battle strictly for the purpose of knowing that they'll win and be able to take the other person's stuff is powergaming, plain and simple.

 

Simple scenario:

 

My guild members and I go to the Oren Emperor and ask for his support to purge a town of heretics near the border. He gives us his support and soldiers, allowing our guild to gather the necessary resources and men to fight them. A few days go by in RP, our preparations are done and we set out to raid/pillage/destroy their place. According to what my guild members know, the heretics' numbers are far inferior to ours and we are easily able to overwhelm them and take over the town. And that's exactly what we do: we go there to fight. Obviously, we are not going to do a 5 vs 15 in RP default fighting with a cluster**** of emotes and text. We are going to pvp - where's the problem? The fact that we know that we'll most-likely win a 5 vs 15 is just a realistic assumption and not powergaming. Going there with the intent to take someone else's belongings isn't wrong either - it's combat and conflict.

 

Powergaming is what you have when a peasant is OOCly determined to win a RP fight even though he's outnumbered and the other guys are guards. Still though, combat on LotC shouldn't be described as "powergaming" no matter what method is being used to solve said conflict. Going into a fight/conflict situation with the OOC-mindset of wanting to win is wrong and that is the actual core problem. PvP default and RP default are what the players make out of the two options.

[Lago 2572]

Also by pointing out what I do in roleplay is just ignoring the fact that PvP becomes an issue when mages are involved, or when it is used because you know you'll automatically win. If you rather we have no regulation for it that's fine, but when a huge group of people come in to a battle strictly for the purpose of knowing that they'll win and be able to take the other person's stuff is powergaming, plain and simple.

 

Have you considered moving to Malinor or Ithrun? You're unlikely to be able to change the whole of Oren, and if you play a free mage then you're the equivalent of a heretic in a very pious nation. You'll probably enjoy yourself more in a less ICly hostile nation.

[Hunter (sckolar) 50]

Meh. These ideas strike me as unnecessary. Not bad ideas, but not necessary. PVP default was put in because of disputes when RP fighting. The player at a disadvantage would get upset because they had a good hunch they were going to lose. As a result, the player with the disadvantage would power game, and at the end of it all, someone would get banned. PVP default was added in as a way to put an end to it, and made it fair to the victims of the power gaming (which generally was the people who were at an advantage) Think of it as a punishment for those players who couldn't stand losing. But even with the current PVP rules, I would imagine even the players who were the victims still actually prefer RP fights so long as they feel as though they are having a fair fight. Why am I talking about this in this thread? I am saying this in response to 4 and 5, and based on all 5 of the ideas, I am convinced that you may not be aware of the reasons why we have it set to PVP default. I actually was totally against PVP default until I figured this out, and made a thread with pretty good points against it. These facts though will hold PVP default in this server, until the community can handle RP fights responsibly. Until that time, I do not see it going anywhere, or being altered too much.

 

Anyway, to sum it all up, I do not think the PVP/RP fighting rules should be altered as it could make an excuse for power gaming. Making changes could defeat the very purpose of even having PVP default

[KarRuptAssassin 16]

While you bring up very valid points, the fact of the matter is that a potential for powergaming still exists, you never notice the person who is a T5 magic user initiate PvP when he's up against three armored men. PvP itself, in my opinion, is fine with non-mages (when used in moderation, of course), but when you bring magic users into the mix everything becomes tilted towards the side of the PvP'ers and not to mention the fact that making PvP default undermines the entire combat magic system, most evocation would be pointless as would Necromancy because when they start using their mist you can just say "PvP default". And not only that but it seems to me a lot of people are taking their OOC anger into character and using PvP as a way to steal the person's goods and let themselves let out anger which, correct me if I'm wrong, is against the rules.

[Major Dom 1297]

While you bring up very valid points, the fact of the matter is that a potential for powergaming still exists, you never notice the person who is a T5 magic user initiate PvP when he's up against three armored men. PvP itself, in my opinion, is fine with non-mages (when used in moderation, of course), but when you bring magic users into the mix everything becomes tilted towards the side of the PvP'ers and not to mention the fact that making PvP default undermines the entire combat magic system, most evocation would be pointless as would Necromancy because when they start using their mist you can just say "PvP default". And not only that but it seems to me a lot of people are taking their OOC anger into character and using PvP as a way to steal the person's goods and let themselves let out anger which, correct me if I'm wrong, is against the rules.

 

Everything in red is something I had an issue with. I'll try to reach all of your errors systematically.

 

1. "you never notice the person who is a T5 magic user initiate PvP when he's up against three armored men" That's because he would lose, PVP default or not. A T5 magic user trained in combat magic is equivalent to a master swordsman who has trained nearly his whole life with a sword. Magic users are more than welcome to throw on some armor and grab a sword like the rest of us. Basically what you're saying is this: "A T5 magic user should be able to beat three armored men" which is absolutely false.

 

2. "everything becomes tilted towards the side of the PvP'ers" As stated above, you are more than welcome to practice and train in PvP. It's your choice not to. So, when you get into conflict, you have no right to complain about losing because you had just as much of a chance to practice PvP as the other person did. And if they are better at PvP than you, then they deserve to win, simple as that. You can't not put in effort and expect to get the reward. That's selfish and in some cases can lead to powergaming.

 

3. "making PvP default undermines the entire combat magic system" Here's a thought: If you don't like getting in fights, don't get into fights! "What you say? I can make a character that isn't hostile to authority and many of the people around him or her?" Yes you can! Magic isn't supposed to be something that you learn just to get an advantage in combat. In fact, magic shouldn't really be combat centered at all. Magic is equal to hand to hand combat is equal to ranged weaponry. No fighting style has a definite advantage over another. Otherwise, everyone would be using that and nobody would be using others.

 

4. "evocation would be pointless as would Necromancy" Neither of those are meant to be solely combat based magical fields. If you're trying to use evocation and necromancy to gain an advantage in combat, you're doing it wrong. And just because you can't use them in minecraft yet doesn't mean they don't have a point. There are other things to do besides fight. See above. Combat isn't the only option. You clearly don't enjoy losing, Karupt, so I suggest not putting yourself in a position where that's an outcome.

 

5. "you can just say "PvP default" No, actually, you can't. There has to be adequate roleplay and a countdown before PvP is initiated. If someone says "PvP Default" and kills you, report it to a GM.

 

6. "a lot of people are taking their OOC anger into character" This particular line stood out to me because it seems this is exactly what you are doing right now with this topic! You clearly have a problem with losing fights, and you think that your character should be able to win more fights. This frustration is making you as a person rather angry, it seems, and because of that anger you are trying to use the forums to change what happens in-game. Instead, try practicing fighting and conflict resolution. If you do that, you will get into less fights and be able to have a better chance at winning. But, may I remind you, winning should be the last thing on your mind in a fight.

 

7. "using PvP as a way to steal the person's goods and let themselves let out anger which, correct me if I'm wrong, is against the rules" For starters, I will correct you because you are wrong. This isn't breaking the rules, this is a type of villainous roleplay. It's called robbery. Many characters are robbers. Do you expect them to not take your items? What would be their purpose then? As Lym stated previously (a VAT member I might add), stealing items from players and killing them to get riches is not cheating or rulebreaking or powergaming, it is conflict RP, and it is perfectly valid.

 

I hope I cleared up all your confusions you seem to have had. Please remember that winning isn't everything and you aren't the only player on this server. Thank you, have a good day.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Moved to the Great Library. It shall be sorted into appropriate category shortly.