The New Rules And Why I Do Not Like Them

[Helpinghands2 9]

Hello everyone,

 

I made this a topic, because I want people to read this, and not many will go down all the coments. I know I'm being a ****, for making all these complains, but I see it as my right!

I would like  to start of with this STUPID pvp rule, making it so that, when I'm wandering home, as I live far away, a random group of 5 people could just run up to me and kill me? Because pvp is default.

Also the war rule is AWFULL (!) look at this as I'm doing it, when someone doens't want war, it is impossible, because they could just say no ooc'ly. What if you'd make it that it had to be aggreed on, but in the end they could attack, make it so it has to be rp'ly agreed, perhaps? With threats, small raids on the farms, like a real mediaval war. And if they don't agree, then send an another diplomate, if they keep saying no, then you could attack, I think, but not just OOC'ly so no, that lame and EVERYONE knows it... This is an RP server, and many of you seem to forget.

Also, as mentioned before, the safe zones are a bad idea, people will just run towards them when being chased, wars will be at their edges, people will move their armies through those lands etc etc etc... 

How long did you all actually think of this?

 

As someone also mentioned before, little villages would be threatned, all the time! Make that rp'ly correct, why would someone want to attack that village? For fun? I mean, you told them to leave all they have and own behind and move to a city, like what? They WORKED on that!

 

Pvp also should NOT be default, as anyone could just get randomly killed...

Make these rules beter, think them through. For you mod's it's easy, no one is just going to attack one of the people with a red or blue name, they're not retarded! 

Think about us, the new players, who only know a couple of people aswell, imagine how we feel, already getting killed a lot, mostly for no reason... 

Also, please tell me how long it took you to get to these 'amazing' *he says saractsicly rules.

 

Thank you for reading my anger and frustrations, 

please do respond if you can help me,

 

 

Greetings,

 

Helpinghands2, Eotweniar Chazen, Urilinu Raised In Blood

 

 

(sorry for my very poor english, I am foreign and trying my best)

[Danny 2232]

Woah, seems you're quite frustrated there, as is to be expected when change like this comes along. I'm not in support of consensual war rules, but I'll reply to the PVP-default aspect of your post.

 

This is a debate that's ran around since really the start of the server. Some people wanted PVP default, some wanted RP. We've hopped between them time and time again and when I was on the staff team, for most of the time, I was pro-RP. I did end up changing to supporting PVP-default and I still support it.

 

It isn't true that anyone can be randomly killed because of PVP default. A - Nobody can actually be randomly killed, RP scenarios must occur before any kind of combat anyway. B - The same could easily happen with an RP default system, it'd just take longer.

 

PVP default leads to less OOC conflict and drama, as well as less bickering and tension. I can categorically state that as I've witnessed it on every step of the rank ladder. RP default has a tendency to end up with accusations of powergaming and people falling out over it. PVP default deals with things nice and cleanly.

 

That being said. RP combat is still entirely available for anyone to use if the other person agrees! It isn't as if RP fighting is outlawed - ask the person "Do you want to RP fight?" and there's a chance, if they think you wont powergame it, that they'll say yes.

 

If anyone is just running up to you and killing you, then you should be reporting that however. Any killing must have a scenario surrounding it and RP leading up to it. Someone can't just approach you and say "Time to die" or something, they need to actually have an RP scenario with you before they try and kill you via PVP.

 

And even then, there's the common misconception that PVP isn't an RP way of dealing with things, when it actually is. It has the RP leading up to it, it fully takes into account things like armour and weaponry (whilst mages are still at a disadvantage currently).

 

And I mean, people will come and counter the arguments I make. And then it'll continue like every other PVP-default or RP-default argument, but the point still stands:

 

I don't do PVP, I'm rubbish at it - but I'm still fully behind PVP default, because I know as a fact that it is the most efficient and effective system that we can put in place on the server. The issue that lies with combat now is that we need to reduce its prevalence in roleplay and try to move people away from combat-orientated roleplay, that's the issue, PVP-default isn't.

[Helpinghands2 9]

So you're saying now they can't just run up to me, they first have to talk about the weather, tell their names, tell me they'll kill me because they're bandits and that's that? Do you really think no OOC drama will come out of that? RP fights have that aswell, yes, true, very true, but I think less, as pg is bannable less people will do it, also this being an rp server (!!!!!!) people should know how to rp fight proper. Also magic would then be uselless, caus how can you type throwing fire when you're died before you typed the '*'?

Thank for responding!

[Helpinghands2 9]

Going for a while now, will be back later, please DO keep posting will read all of it, and will respond later. Thank you all a bunch!

 

Greetings,

 

Helpinghands2, Eotweniar Chazen, Urilinu Raised In Blood

[RK9ify 86]

I think the main reason people get so pissed off at PvP is because of the fear of losing their items. I'm not going to lie, I dislike PvP because I hate losing my stuff and because I suck at it. Yeah, that's why I prefer RP fights, but if it comes to PvP, I have to comply, but as Danny said,

 

PVP default leads to less OOC conflict and drama, as well as less bickering and tension.  RP default has a tendency to end up with accusations of powergaming and people falling out over it. PVP default deals with things nice and cleanly.

 

 

 

 

Yep. PvP default does lead to less OOC conflict. So yeah, I think the server's doing the right thing by making PvP default. 

[Helpinghands2 9]

Just saying, more people will be angry when they lose all their stuff over and over again then when they have a [leg is broken] or ccan't run for a while, just saying... Like, if you get defeated, they could take some of your money, something like that, that you have to pay to let you go, now they can just kill you and you lose EVERYTHING. 

[Danny 2232]

 

So you're saying now they can't just run up to me, they first have to talk about the weather, tell their names, tell me they'll kill me because they're bandits and that's that? Do you really think no OOC drama will come out of that? RP fights have that aswell, yes, true, very true, but I think less, as pg is bannable less people will do it, also this being an rp server (!!!!!!) people should know how to rp fight proper. Also magic would then be uselless, caus how can you type throwing fire when you're died before you typed the '*'?

Thank for responding!

 

No, they need an RP situation to go ahead before hand. That's not a new thing... It's never been allowed under any PVP-default system for someone to just kill someone - there must be RP before it.

 

Magic users are currently in a situation until the magic plugin comes out and allows them to operate functionally in PVP, and I still stand by the point that a PVP fight is still RP, almost as equally as an RP-fight itself would be.

 

It's a change that'll take time for those who haven't experienced or seen the positives of PVP-default to get used to, but I can assure you it's much more beneficial in the long run.

 

[CosmicWhaleShark 2488]

Your argument is similar to mine, however rather than essentially... Ranting, I suppose is the word for it, try and start an actual discussion.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with complaints about PvP default specifically, though. Your topic states 'new rules'.

 

Within my own thread, I offered an alternative of having those who wish to PvP, do so within a 'badlands' type area. Rather than penning in those who wish to RP without the risk of being clicked to death because someone quite simply does not like another's style.

 

Instead, you close off an area for PvP to occur. I do not think you require a whole map to do what essentially a single plain, or arena can accomplish just as efficiently. This enables more of the map to be... Well... Role-played in.

[Overland 349]

  I probably don't play enough, so I'm not sure about how accurate my view is. But I'll try my best.

 

  Look, I wish we didn't have to have OOC restrictions regarding war or anything. But sadly, some people will always try to abuse it. I guess the best thing we can do is just try to contribute what we think is best for the server. Which you are doing now. To be honest, I don't think we'll ever find a suitable war system, as every really good option would only work in a community that wasn't so... Mean to each other in certain ways. Sure, it's improved vastly since I've joined, but the sad fact is someone will always be out to get someone else. And no, I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone, as I'm sure we've all had our fair share in doing it.

 

  As for PvP default, I see your distaste in it, despite myself not minding it being default. But to be honest, I've only ever seen someone count down (outside of training) for PvP once. As I said I'm probably not active enough, but I see far fewer arguments now than when I joined. And as with war rules, will we ever have a perfect system? I don't think there will be. Perhaps roll fighting could do it, but it also has its fair share of flaws. 

 

  I guess the best thing to do is try to avoid combat or try to calm down the situation for the time being. We may never have a perfect system, but the server is trying their best to find one.

[Lago 2572]

I would like  to start of with this STUPID pvp rule, making it so that, when I'm wandering home, as I live far away, a random group of 5 people could just run up to me and kill me? Because pvp is default.

They still have to RP first. Besides, what alternative is there, exactly? Emote fights require consent as to who loses. Two people competing OOC aren't going to reach such a consent, and it becomes a powergaming fight.

 

So you're saying now they can't just run up to me, they first have to talk about the weather, tell their names, tell me they'll kill me because they're bandits and that's that?

Only the last one, and they have to alert you a fight's about to start.

 

Also the war rule is AWFULL (!) look at this as I'm doing it, when someone doens't want war, it is impossible, because they could just say no ooc'ly. What if you'd make it that it had to be aggreed on, but in the end they could attack, make it so it has to be rp'ly agreed, perhaps?

Agree to be invaded IC? Do you actually mean that?

 

Also, as mentioned before, the safe zones are a bad idea, people will just run towards them when being chased, wars will be at their edges, people will move their armies through those lands etc etc etc... 

How long did you all actually think of this?

It is a violation of server rules to run into a PvPdisabled zone to escape ongoing combat, and has been for over two years.

 

As someone also mentioned before, little villages would be threatned, all the time! Make that rp'ly correct, why would someone want to attack that village? For fun? I mean, you told them to leave all they have and own behind and move to a city, like what? They WORKED on that!

Yes, yes they did. Yet you said above that it's wrong to be able to refuse wars, that people should be able to have their entire city or town conquered and destroyed without their OOC agreement. Where exactly do you stand?

 

Pvp also should NOT be default, as anyone could just get randomly killed...

RP is always required before initiating combat. This is stated in the server tooltips and on the server rules you claimed to have read when you applied.

 

Think about us, the new players, who only know a couple of people aswell, imagine how we feel, already getting killed a lot, mostly for no reason...

Are you being constantly killed? Are you attempting to avoid provoking those who may kill you?

tl;dr: Get your facts and arguments straight before posting a ragey post. Nobody will begrude you for asking questions nicely about rules you don't get the reason behind, but if you lash out at someone you better know what you're talking about.

[RK9ify 86]

But it causes much less OOC drama! PvP makes it more fair, and takes less time. Also, one doesn't HAVE to kill the other person. They could just revive them and tell them to SS to CT. Although most people wouldn't do that because they want the other persons items. :P

But I bet even YOU would resort to PvP if you knew you could overpower the other person, because you have armor and the don't, because you have a weapon and they don't etc. And I bet you wouldn't revive them and take all their stuff. And I'm not going to lie, I would. It's how the server works!

[mmat 7460]

Bad PvP fight = 10 seconds of fighting and then it's over

 

Bad RP fight = 2+ hours of festering hatred and nitpicky emotes.

 

When people are competing against one another using RP fighting, a medium in which the players themselves determine whether they win or lose, people obviously always want to win unless the fight is pre-determined.

[Helpinghands2 9]

1) I do not leash anyone, and what I meant by agreeing to get invaded IC is, that some threats can go on in  certain way,kind of forcing them, think about a real war, it's not like people can just say 'no' then, right? Perhaps you should just announce a while before that there will be war, something like that. Also that there should be an RP reason to attack a certain village or town, not just because you know they're weak and don't have many people, but DO have many stuff, there should be a reason behind it.

2) Yes, I AM getting killed a lot, once because I was mededating. The other time because "we don't like strngers", an another time because "we don't like your kind" and so no and on.

3) That's my point, rp should be required, but did you see that mentioned in the new rules thread? Because I did not. New rules should be clear, when they say PvP is default and only 1 person has to want it, then I see it as you can walk up to people and beet the everything out of them.

4) If there could be clear rules/guide on how to fun RP and how to have fun and make others ahve fun, people wouldn't PG, because it would be clear that that ruins all the fun.

5) I would not kill someone with less gear or no weapon, I think tht is VERY lame and stupid in common.

6) Also, perhaps you could give us, players, as in ALL of us, the option to vote? I know this sounds stupid, but you could try it, to see what mojority now actually wants, not only the big Diamond vips and the Lord and Dectrums, but all of us, the new ones, the hobos, the homeless...

Let all of us decide, announce it on the server and on the forums that there will be the ability to vote, as that is how I'd see it to get to a good and mostly accepted system.

 

 

Please do keep responding, this is an open discussion where I want as many people to post their opinions and react on opinions as possible!

Thank you.

[RK9ify 86]

No one would just come up to you and try to kill you because you're meditating, or you're a different race. That's certainly never happened to me. Maybe it's something you've done to create this hatred for you IC'ly or OOC'ly? I understand that your character in a Wood Elf, and High Elves aren't particularly fond of any other race. Also, Eotweniar sort of acts like a badass, and I don't know if he still has an attitude that would cause people to dislike him. 

 

But I have to agree with you on the 'majority wins' thing. I miss that system. Made combat a lot more fair for both parties and would love to see that return.

[Danny 2232]

2) Yes, I AM getting killed a lot, once because I was mededating. The other time because "we don't like strngers", an another time because "we don't like your kind" and so no and on.

 

That's something that shouldn't be happening and that's evidently players that aren't wanting to actually provide enjoyment to other players in the community, but instead just like being a pain in the backside.

 

3) That's my point, rp should be required, but did you see that mentioned in the new rules thread? Because I did not. New rules should be clear, when they say PvP is default and only 1 person has to want it, then I see it as you can walk up to people and beet the everything out of them.

 

It is mentioned in the rules and it's always been a rule even during RP-default times. People have never been allowed to exploit it, it's always been required.

 

5) I would not kill someone with less gear or no weapon, I think tht is VERY lame and stupid in common.

 

Again, that's a problem with people themselves who need a kick in the head - not a problem with the system itself. 

 

6) Also, perhaps you could give us, players, as in ALL of us, the option to vote? I know this sounds stupid, but you could try it, to see what mojority now actually wants, not only the big Diamond vips and the Lord and Dectrums, but all of us, the new ones, the hobos, the homeless...

Let all of us decide, announce it on the server and on the forums that there will be the ability to vote, as that is how I'd see it to get to a good and mostly accepted system.

 

There's been votes in the past, and the last one said PVP-default and that was when I was still admin I believe. We jiggle between the two different sides all the time and there's been community discussion and votes time and time again.

 

 

Answers are in bold to the ones I was able to answer directly.