The Big Skills Update

[argonian 14254]

Born into the Cloud Temple, go out into the world, go to skills city, spend three hours killing zombies so you don't die of the first highwayman to see you who's spent ten hours killing zombies. You should have starting skill points if the system is meant to differentiate characters by means other than how many hours they've ground which skill for.

Plus, it's unfair on new players, who can easily get killed by the first hostile person to find them with no chance of fighting back. If the aim of skills is not to alienate new players, then why give them such a massive hurdle to jump?

Yeah I think people should start off with 3 skills points that they can spend on any skill.

[Lago 2572]

Yeah I think people should start off with 3 skills points that they can spend on any skill.

I would say all 275, so you de-level skills to change them from the start.

I just don't see it being that big of a hurdle, sorry. Shouldn't someone who's been killing zombies for a month be able to easily handle someone who's been killing them for an hour?

It's an RP server, it shouldn't be about standing in a zombie dungeon holding down the left mouse button for hours on end.

[Decks of the Black Axe 3]

I would say all 275, so you de-level skills to change them from the start.

It's an RP server, it shouldn't be about standing in a zombie dungeon holding down the left mouse button for hours on end.

Ok, last comment, I promise.

If we started with all 275, everyone would be a master swordsman, or a master blacksmith, or master miner. How is that RP? You have to work towards something to be good at it... that's a tenant to any role playing experience. The value is in the journey, my friend.

[argonian 14254]

Ok, last comment, I promise.

If we started with all 275, everyone would be a master swordsman, or a master blacksmith, or master miner. How is that RP? You have to work towards something to be good at it... that's a tenant to any role playing experience. The value is in the journey, my friend.

Yeah starting with all 275 points to spend is....pointless. I would say 3-10 would be good though to make it easier for people to become good at a skill without grinding for hours.

[Lago 2572]

Ok, last comment, I promise.

If we started with all 275, everyone would be a master swordsman, or a master blacksmith, or master miner. How is that RP? You have to work towards something to be good at it... that's a tenant to any role playing experience. The value is in the journey, my friend.

If the journey is dungeon grinding, then the journey is dull and duller. In an RP server, the value is the story, the character interaction. If one character started as a master blacksmith, he would rely on others for protection. Right now he just has to spend ages grinding tools in his tent. Go to tree, cut down tree, make wood pickaxes, go back to tree... Yes, the blacksmith should not be able to fight with his sword like a knight, and the knight should not be able to make a sword like the blacksmith can, but the experience is cheapened if the knight is buying swords to grind dungeons with and the blacksmith's floor is always littered with useless wooden pickaxes he's using to grind his skills. The grinding aspect can promote character interaction, but not good RP character interaction.

There is a merit to having skills built up over time, but dungeon grinding is not an enjoyable or RP beneficial way of character level up. You could give players a limited number of exp points a day/week to give to other players for completing things in the RP (similar to quests, and possibly with a reason typed in too, so the mods can see if it's being abused). The rewards of this would be much higher than killing zombies or mining blocks, so you can gain skills by doing things related to that skill, but it is much more profitable and enjoyable to RP for your skills.

Okay, maybe there is a case for having skill requirements for advanced tools, but they should be low (I do not know the exact boundaries, but I'm at 23 and for some reason jabbing them with a massive iron blade does them less harm than hitting them with a stick). Wood and stone you can start with, iron at level 10, diamond at level 25.

[Availer 681]

You dont need to grind. Why are you grinding? There is no skill city, Luravar is a city made for community development. People meet up and help each other perfect their professions. You can't get owned by veteran players because it's limited to 275 skill points. None of you had these arguments when we had MCMMO. It is YOUR choice if you want to grind or not. The skill system has made it POSSIBLE TO GRIND, but it's not PROMOTED grinding. It's not the ONLY way to play. You can level up by simple being yourself, by fighting monsters with friends and eventually being able to access what you want. It is the joy of movement and development, what is the point of a game where you can do everything, wher e is the RP in doing everything you want? It makes complete sense that untrained neophytes cant use Swords and Pikes because you're not trained with them. You can work with a woodensword because it is lighter and easier to use and probably cause more damage. You need to train your muscles and agility to work with better and bigger weapons. Getting lvl 20 takes an hour at most, and this server is made to last months and perhaps years. None is forcing you to grind so dont use the excuse its grind city.

The Lord Of The Craft is played the way YOU want to play it.

[argonian 14254]

You dont need to grind. Why are you grinding? There is no skill city, Luravar is a city made for community development. People meet up and help each other perfect their professions. You can't get owned by veteran players because it's limited to 275 skill points. None of you had these arguments when we had MCMMO. It is YOUR choice if you want to grind or not. The skill system has made it POSSIBLE TO GRIND, but it's not PROMOTED grinding. It's not the ONLY way to play. You can level up by simple being yourself, by fighting monsters with friends and eventually being able to access what you want. It is the joy of movement and development, what is the point of a game where you can do everything, wher e is the RP in doing everything you want? It makes complete sense that untrained neophytes cant use Swords and Pikes because you're not trained with them. You can work with a woodensword because it is lighter and easier to use and probably cause more damage. You need to train your muscles and agility to work with better and bigger weapons. Getting lvl 20 takes an hour at most, and this server is made to last months and perhaps years. None is forcing you to grind so dont use the excuse its grind city.

The Lord Of The Craft is played the way YOU want to play it.

It's quite hard to find monsters when you are actually looking for them so it might take a bit longer. Oh and I found a small bug. My profession is: Apparentice Swordsman, shouldn't it be Apprentice Swordsman? BTW where is Luravar? I've never heard of it.

[Lago 2572]

It is plagued with typos for the moment, but it is a beta...

You dont need to grind. Why are you grinding? There is no skill city, Luravar is a city made for community development. People meet up and help each other perfect their professions. You can't get owned by veteran players because it's limited to 275 skill points. None of you had these arguments when we had MCMMO. It is YOUR choice if you want to grind or not. The skill system has made it POSSIBLE TO GRIND, but it's not PROMOTED grinding. It's not the ONLY way to play. You can level up by simple being yourself, by fighting monsters with friends and eventually being able to access what you want. It is the joy of movement and development, what is the point of a game where you can do everything, wher e is the RP in doing everything you want? It makes complete sense that untrained neophytes cant use Swords and Pikes because you're not trained with them. You can work with a woodensword because it is lighter and easier to use and probably cause more damage. You need to train your muscles and agility to work with better and bigger weapons. Getting lvl 20 takes an hour at most, and this server is made to last months and perhaps years. None is forcing you to grind so dont use the excuse its grind city.

The Lord Of The Craft is played the way YOU want to play it.

I understand. Still, the skills system doesn't reward RP and the high unlocks damage the market for good tools and weapons. I take it there would be a problem with 50 starting skill points and a limited capacity for players to award skill points for RP (VIPs and GMs would have more.)?

(Also, I wasn't here when you had MCMMO, so I don't know it. I only know without the new skills and with them.)

[MrGrendel 10]

I take it there would be a problem with [...] a limited capacity for players to award skill points for RP (VIPs and GMs would have more.)?

These systems in my experience are desirable but hard to implement fairly. By human nature they are prone to be influenced by popularity, favoritism etc even when intended to be used fairly.

Generally they are good ideas to have, though I would not recommend giving players the command in the slightest. I'd suggest something along these lines, to help ensure fair use and capitalize on the encouraging effect they have:

- A command /rpbonus [player] [skill] is added for GMs only.

- What for: To be used on players engaging others in good RP

- Effects:

1. Grants a set amount of xp in the specified skill. This should not be a trivial amount. (It is a RP server, there's nothing wrong with rewarding RPers over powergamers. GMs pick the skill they find most appropriate or rewarding.)

2. Script automatically announces in the OOC channel, "[Name] has received a skill bonus for his/her outstanding role-play with others from [GM]." (Transparency does a lot to keep things proper, the OOC channel keeps the message out of sight of people RPing anyway, and lastly adds encouragement to everyone else to get into RP.)

- Restrictions:

1. Not to be used on players in the GMs own faction or race etc. (GMs should seek out players outside of their usual circles to observe. This gives all players a fairer chance of being "discovered" and helps counter claims or feelings of favoritism.)

2. Only to be used while observing invis, especially not on players interacting with the GM. (Players should not switch RP on/off depending on if they know a GM is around.)

- Additional command to supplement this: /rpwatch chooses a random player, automatically sets the GM to invis, and teleports them to the location of the player. Basically the fairest way to pick someone to watch and see if they are engaging in RP with others.

[Lago 2572]

I was thinking more players having a limited number of RP points they can award per week, and when they award them they are trasparently trasmitted along with the reason ((The format would be something like /skillbonus <player> <skill> <number> <reason> , it would also be saved to a list like modreqs so they can be checked periodically by GMs.

Also, 30-50 starting skill points would allow characters to start with a lot of skill in one area (but still with much room for improvement) or with a starting grounding in many.

[MrGrendel 10]

I was thinking more players having a limited number of RP points they can award per week, and when they award them they are trasparently trasmitted along with the reason ((The format would be something like /skillbonus <player> <skill> <number> <reason> , it would also be saved to a list like modreqs so they can be checked periodically by GMs.

Well, I've seen this sort of system not work before. Do players like it? Sure. Could it work? To an extent, maybe. However, a simple small system for a big lottery and announcement for one person makes far better encouragement than a complex monitored system of hundreds of friends sticking dollar bills in each others pockets, and it's much easier to oversee and keep straight.

Also, 30-50 starting skill points would allow characters to start with a lot of skill in one area (but still with much room for improvement) or with a starting grounding in many.

I don't disagree it would be nice, though I feel I should point out you can get 15 points in two skills like in half an hour or something, probably. What I'd like to see is the racial bonuses, even if small.

[Thrym 188]

How long does it take to get one xp point? Because I've been smelting stuff and haven't gotten anything so I want to know how long I have to wait to get 1 xp not a level just xp. Another question. Its impossible to get iron, gold, and diamond on your own isn't it? If you need iron to get iron and gold to get gold etc. then you can't do it. If to get an iron ore I need an iron pick its impossible to get without buying because to get the stuff I already need it follow? Anyway would love for some clarification as I'm very confused and haven't really had my questions answered by the wiki.

[Lago 2572]

This is something similiar to how I personally would have assigned abilties for swords (no point complaining if there is nothing you want changed.) Maybe something in there may be useful to someone?

Swordsmanship

Level 00 - Wooden practice swords only, -1 damage with swords

Level 05 - Unlock Stone and Iron Swords

Level 10 - 5% Parry Chance

Level 15 - Unlock Diamond and Gold Swords

Level 20 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus -0.5)

Level 25 - Ability: 50% chance to keep swords in your inventory upon death

Level 30 - 10% Parry Chance

Level 35 - Increased Knockback

Level 40 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 0)

Level 45 - Ability: Keep swords in your inventory upon death

Level 50 - 15% Parry Chance

Level 55 - Increased Knockback

Level 60 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus +0.5)

Level 65 - 5% chance for double damage

Level 70 - 20% Parry Chance

Level 75 - Increased Knockback

Level 80 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 1)

Level 85 - 50% Chance of Double Drops when killing mobs

Level 90 - 25% Parry Chance

Level 95 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 1.5)

Level 100 - 10% chance for double damage

[Availer 681]

This is something similiar to how I personally would have assigned abilties for swords (no point complaining if there is nothing you want changed.) Maybe something in there may be useful to someone?

Swordsmanship

Level 00 - Wooden practice swords only, -1 damage with swords

Level 05 - Unlock Stone and Iron Swords

Level 10 - 5% Parry Chance

Level 15 - Unlock Diamond and Gold Swords

Level 20 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus -0.5)

Level 25 - Ability: 50% chance to keep swords in your inventory upon death

Level 30 - 10% Parry Chance

Level 35 - Increased Knockback

Level 40 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 0)

Level 45 - Ability: Keep swords in your inventory upon death

Level 50 - 15% Parry Chance

Level 55 - Increased Knockback

Level 60 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus +0.5)

Level 65 - 5% chance for double damage

Level 70 - 20% Parry Chance

Level 75 - Increased Knockback

Level 80 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 1)

Level 85 - 50% Chance of Double Drops when killing mobs

Level 90 - 25% Parry Chance

Level 95 - +0.5 damage bonus (total bonus 1.5)

Level 100 - 10% chance for double damage

Minecraft is simple. Adding abilities gives a myriad of bugs and problems. It's also not very fun and buggy. Without sound effects and animations it doesn't work either.

The current swords system has parry and damage bonus. How would double drops make sense anyway. Lvl 50 hardly takes alot of time to get. What's the point of the skill cap if people can use diamond at lvl 15. And didnt you say earlier you dont want pros to own new players. having all those bonuses at lvl 100, you would either two hit or one hit most players.

RP Points for Skills? Big no no. You RP because you enjoy it and because that's the way the game is played.

[Petyr 485]

Minecraft is simple. Adding abilities gives a myriad of bugs and problems. It's also not very fun and buggy. Without sound effects and animations it doesn't work either.

The current swords system has parry and damage bonus. How would double drops make sense anyway. Lvl 50 hardly takes alot of time to get. What's the point of the skill cap if people can use diamond at lvl 15. And didnt you say earlier you dont want pros to own new players. having all those bonuses at lvl 100, you would either two hit or one hit most players.

RP Points for Skills? Big no no. You RP because you enjoy it and because that's the way the game is played.

That's a pretty good point. Not going to hate on skills, because they are very impressive, and I really appreciate everyone's hard work, but I think a lot of people instantly become too focused on skills. They're almost like attractive women to an adolescent. That's all that's on the mind.