[PROPHECY / ANNOUNCEMENT] BURNING SUN

[Islamadon 9158]

8 minutes ago, salamanderfantasy said:

won't lie that this feels less than rp friendly for both ppl who play klone and homunc characters that. Know Eachother. but i will inform the klone'rs I know. thank you for replying

They would see u as a weird creature that they interacted with, just none of the details of what you are "oh ur that crazy thing isnt that wacky"

[TysCreations 458]

me over here deciding if shamanism is important enough to my character to keep a hold of and drop leaning klones whilst I still can

[Eurielle 1189]

bogdan is a pretender bring back slivers superior metanoia soul shadow method 

 

Real talk though you should probably reconsider the TA requirements for Tawkin now that you slapped Klones.

[Islamadon 9158]

7 minutes ago, Eurielle said:

bogdan is a pretender bring back slivers superior metanoia soul shadow method 

 

Real talk though you should probably reconsider the TA requirements for Tawkin now that you slapped Klones.

No Klone no TA

[mothsthetic 2250]

tbh i like the aurum addition. i feel like irply people have gotten too comfortable with the idea of coming back from death with a klone no consequences, and not being treated as any flavor of undead despite being in a clay state of undeath, in a manner of speaking. theyre not literal undeads

[DizzyGrey 1229]

Good edition.

Makes sense.

I'm now way more stressed about blood magic.

[nepir 472]

I must praise the fact this change comes with a lore explination and all of this seems to be a fair and understandable change. sad the aurum was added but it was to be expected.

[Frisket 4538]

This is actually pretty necessary considering I been saying for a while deific magics and klones don’t mix really.

[z3m0s 1957]

I like lore changes having RP / Posts behind them, rather than just POOF, GONE! Thank you ST🙏

[Panashea 3323]

20 hours ago, Islamadon said:

For years now, Klones have been THE go to CA for anyone wishing to cheat death. Despite other means of pseudo-immortality being available (Transformative CAs or Machine Spirits), Klones have always prevailed in popularity due to their effectively null drawback and because they remained, for all intents and purposes, a descendant. Kloners also enjoy, practically, infinite lives by virtue of strategic amphora placements and can also retain Greater Mutations.

 

Tawkin as a lorepiece is constantly described as an abhorrent taboo and heresy before the Gods within its own writing. Further, the ability to cheat the Soul Stream fundamentally negates the cost of Deific Magics - the Soul Claim. Why WOULD a Deity bestow their blessing onto someone if they would always evade and deny them their prize?

 

Hello, resident shaman/blood mage/tawkinist here. I agree with the initial premise of Klones being too easy to keep reusing giving descendants immortality, machine spirits and other transformative CAs aren't compatible with Deific Magic. Naztherak, Mysticism,  Druidism and Necromancy all have end games that allow them to continue their magics without suffering from the age/survival clauses.   The reason klones are so prevalent is because of how many deific or non-compatible magics (BM) don't have an option in the same way.  It would be cool to see the second slot of BM used for this, or for a more general "descendant-end game" to exist, but I don't think its a requirement for every magic.

 

The Spirits have never had Soul Claim, it is Apohet's realm, with the whole intent to be a place to subvert Aeriel's intent over the soulstream. The Spirits (as far as I know) don't have the control to manipulate it in the traditional sense and are just leeching from that deific power, which is why they don't have typical Aengudaemon powers.  Spirits are uniquely capable of understanding the Material Alphabet, so most alchemy isn't transgressive to them. 

But Apohet wasn't a malevolent being, or at least he didn't think of himself that way, and he didn't approve of those who were. And so he made it that only the good, the virtuous and the honourable souls would be able to come to him. So was his final insult to Aeriel; she would receive only the evil-doers, the apathetic standers-by, the greedy and the callous. Of course Aeriel was enraged at this, but she was almost powerless against such an action. Apohet's realm was as far from the Seven Skies as the mortal realm, so should she enter she would be vulnerable to one who had grown to despise her. Her only course of action was to allow the good a choice as to whether they go to Apohet's realm or not as they traversed the passage of souls.

 

To say that the Spirit claims your soul is incorrect. Descendants have a choice of letting a Greater Spirit PK them, but there has never been a requirement for any Pact or spiritual magic for a shaman to have their soul eaten or offered up. All Spiritualists go to the Ancestral Realm if they choose to do so, otherwise Lutaumancy wouldn't have Ancestral Spirits to call on.  I don't really see why Dlimbok(haruspex) or other shamanic feats/abilities would care you persist via Tawkin when the whole point is to have influence over the mortal realm.  Witchdoctor has Fleshsmithing, shamans have extended their lives in the past/made immortal spiritual constructs, and if shamans were destined to be absorbed why wouldn't they just claim your soul when the pact was made? 

 

I recognize the mechanical problems issue with Deific Magics and Kloning, but it just doesn't make sense lore wise for shamans.  We only have 3 days to figure out whether we're going to drop multiple magic slots, but we still don't have any true answers on Shamanism being refit/reformatted to match the current age of magic.  I can drop Tawkin, but I would appreciate more time or transparency on the magic before large changes like this are made for a magic community without our consent.

Edited March 15, 2025 by Panashea

[ScreamingDingo 20568]

8 hours ago, Panashea said:

 

Hello, resident shaman/blood mage/tawkinist here. I agree with the initial premise of Klones being too easy to keep reusing giving descendants immortality, machine spirits and other transformative CAs aren't compatible with Deific Magic. Naztherak, Mysticism,  Druidism and Necromancy all have end games that allow them to continue their magics without suffering from the age/survival clauses.   The reason klones are so prevalent is because of how many deific or non-compatible magics (BM) don't have an option in the same way.  It would be cool to see the second slot of BM used for this, or for a more general "descendant-end game" to exist, but I don't think its a requirement for every magic.

 

The Spirits have never had Soul Claim, it is Apohet's realm, with the whole intent to be a place to subvert Aeriel's intent over the soulstream. The Spirits (as far as I know) don't have the control to manipulate it in the traditional sense and are just leeching from that deific power, which is why they don't have typical Aengudaemon powers.  Spirits are uniquely capable of understanding the Material Alphabet, so most alchemy isn't transgressive to them. 

But Apohet wasn't a malevolent being, or at least he didn't think of himself that way, and he didn't approve of those who were. And so he made it that only the good, the virtuous and the honourable souls would be able to come to him. So was his final insult to Aeriel; she would receive only the evil-doers, the apathetic standers-by, the greedy and the callous. Of course Aeriel was enraged at this, but she was almost powerless against such an action. Apohet's realm was as far from the Seven Skies as the mortal realm, so should she enter she would be vulnerable to one who had grown to despise her. Her only course of action was to allow the good a choice as to whether they go to Apohet's realm or not as they traversed the passage of souls.

 

To say that the Spirit claims your soul is incorrect. Descendants have a choice of letting a Greater Spirit PK them, but there has never been a requirement for any Pact or spiritual magic for a shaman to have their soul eaten or offered up. All Spiritualists go to the Ancestral Realm if they choose to do so, otherwise Lutaumancy wouldn't have Ancestral Spirits to call on.  I don't really see why Dlimbok(haruspex) or other shamanic feats/abilities would care you persist via Tawkin when the whole point is to have influence over the mortal realm.  Witchdoctor has Fleshsmithing, shamans have extended their lives in the past/made immortal spiritual constructs, and if shamans were destined to be absorbed why wouldn't they just claim your soul when the pact was made? 

 

I recognize the mechanical problems issue with Deific Magics and Kloning, but it just doesn't make sense lore wise for shamans.  We only have 3 days to figure out whether we're going to drop multiple magic slots, but we still don't have any true answers on Shamanism being refit/reformatted to match the current age of magic.  I can drop Tawkin, but I would appreciate more time or transparency on the magic before large changes like this are made for a magic community without our consent.

Shamans are guaranteed to head to the Spirit Realm because of their pacts, they cannot go elsewhere and this is where the kloning subversion happens. I understand that most spiritualists can opt in, but in the terms of soul allocation, Spirits being able to ensure that their destined figures that they pact with can go to their afterlife is important.

Kloning goes a bit beyond the normal blood magic sorta shenanigans of most cosmic things, it is creating a false body and transferring a soul into it that goes against most natural laws of existence. Most deifics themselves would be extremely adverse to the idea of the descendants being able to essentially escape death in any form. I feel like spirits would not be an exception, because they are aiming to use non-spiritual means to extend their life and devoting themselves to a craft that is away from most of the mindsets of the immortal spirits [death/time/etc.]

Happy to discuss this further, but this is the interpretation that I believe would justify why Klones would basically be an issue. This is mostly to hit a few of the standard deific ones that hyper-focus on soul claims, but as always shamanism is something that's always strangely obtuse of other stuff.

[Rulf Bypharrk 74]

I do have one question, due to the vulnerability to Aurum now, would. Non-klones who regular descendants who lost their limbs but were given Grafted flesh as replacement, would it also inflict the same searing pain? 

 

I can see like an interesting rp dynamic where, even though darkspawn testing is for the most part useless, could mistake a regular non klone descendant as a darkspawn simply because of this. 

[Xein000 264]

On 3/18/2025 at 7:59 PM, Rulf Bypharrk said:

I do have one question, due to the vulnerability to Aurum now, would. Non-klones who regular descendants who lost their limbs but were given Grafted flesh as replacement, would it also inflict the same searing pain? 

 

I can see like an interesting rp dynamic where, even though darkspawn testing is for the most part useless, could mistake a regular non klone descendant as a darkspawn simply because of this. 

This is a good question. If a none darkspawn person reacts to Aurum test, then I would question if they are even a descendant at all or not, but might very well mistake them for a darkspawn instead and this would get confusing as I feel like further test will be needed to determinate whenever they are a darkspawn or not. Part of me feel this may lead to people to being arrested for just being a clone and that may result in them being killed over and over at worse, if tested positive with Aurum. Not sure if this might happen but could be something to think on.