THE NAZTHERAK TEA DRINKING AMENDMENT

[Eurielle 1189]

9 minutes ago, PolarLoLs said:

Make it consume 1 magic slot - some evil guy

Yeah I FW that.

[Holyland 3650]

Just straight up make them unable to conceive whatsoever. The downsides of Naztherak are sorely under-thought-about, both IRPly and OOCly. Having even more to have to consider before diving into darkness separates the sheep from the goats in this manner - dark magic should not be used for low-tier family roleplay that ignores the very premise of the wretched sacrifice these individuals make in order to ascertain this dark, Ibleesian power. You are a villain - you are arguably little but. 

 

I'd much rather see it be the case that they can only create Cursed Children via said rituals, as opposed to being capable of birthing them. 

[Ninjay 1184]

4 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

someone in st in the shadowbox was likely upset naz were getting [1] free boon bc all you'd have to do is give yourself CC kids and not have kids. it wasnt really in line with the whole boon/bane system and likely is why it got amended out.

I genuinely don't think anyone on ST has ever thought this, nor can I think of the last time I've seen someone give that bane (I think I've seen it once in all of the tickets for boons and banes I've done).

That said that's actually a pretty funny minmax idea for getting the freebies that Naz boons can offer lol.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

12 minutes ago, Ninjay said:

I genuinely don't think anyone on ST has ever thought this, nor can I think of the last time I've seen someone give that bane (I think I've seen it once in all of the tickets for boons and banes I've done).

That said that's actually a pretty funny minmax idea for getting the freebies that Naz boons can offer lol.

 

you say this, but naz did not always have cc children automatically. it was an internal amendment that passed so /shrug reactionary team strikes again!

 

imo naz is starting the slippery slope that necromancy did where the magic's "issues" are boiled down to SoL spam and not actual RP resolution while ignoring the actual mechanical issues of the magic. eventually all that will be left is a magic that forces you to be john mcevil, hater of people and raider of cities at 3am, to which people will complain equally that the magic is 1-dimensional and no fun anymore. It is, after watching necromancy border on shaman-levels of rewrite attempts, a pit that wont be recovered from

[Buhru 129]

4 hours ago, drywall said:

Having a cursed soul that's tied to the hells should give you more physical ailments than just the malices. Like, infertility, as an example. Or a decreased chance of having kids. One Naz'therak having nearly 18-20 accepted cursed children within the span of 6 months is absolutely insane.

fire idea. in a way, i see it as bolstering the need for them to actually go out and curse unborn children, they cant have their own.

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

People like playing CCs for various reasons. LOTC created a tiefling CA and people want to play as teifling CAs, kinda silly to serverely limit a widely enjoyed character type. It was very obvious that this was going to happen: people wanting to play tieflings and going through the avenues to play them. Oh no, the consquences of our actions have arrived...

I understand the intent to control the theme of Naztherak and all the branching subcultures along with it. To some extent, that is needed with dark magic groups. But I don't see how limiting the amount of CCs a Naz can make will improve roleplay beyond "I don't get to see this thing I don't like seeing." 

 

People are allowed to enjoy things on LOTC without having to conform to the specific playstyles any one group or multiple groups play by. People should be allowed to have their fun without such visceral reactions all the time. 

 

Things that originally are meant to be rare, have the risk of not becomming rare in the future. Things become popular, and that isn't inherently bad. Even if the popular thing doesn't follow with original expectations. 

Note: I don't play a CC, and I have no intention of ever playing one. But I'm lying out my ass if I say seeing all the CCs running around affects me oocly or my character irply. I just don't get the massive hate they get. Boo hoo, people are playing special snowflakes and are roleplaying having a life on those special snowflakes. Tf is the actual issue?

[Navigator 4260]

11 minutes ago, PrettyKittyKeia said:

Note: I don't play a CC, and I have no intention of ever playing one. But I'm lying out my ass if I say seeing all the CCs running around affects me oocly or my character irply. I just don't get the massive hate they get. Boo hoo, people are playing special snowflakes and are roleplaying having a life on those special snowflakes. Tf is the actual issue?

So, this comes from a crucial misunderstanding that CCs are 'tieflings' and a 'character type'. The name 'Blessed Children' is misleading and CCs are very much in a cursed existence, where if they don't get some kind of deific magic where their soul is granted an afterlife, they will quite literally go to Super Hell. On an OOC level, I do not care about CCs being popular. People can want to play them all they want. The amendment doesn't seek to harm CCs whatsoever - it seeks to prevent Naztherak from spamming CCs because it is not meant to be a Slice of Life throw-away kind of character. They are cursed beings, and their curse should be an ADDITIONAL FLAIR to their character, not their defining trait. They are not tieflings, some of them don't even have horns, and some even look more like satyrs than anything.

 

At the end of the day, it's not about the CCs themselves, but rather the people who, through getting Naztherak, spam CCs and then CCs become so widespread that their 'aura' (the word got ruined by the new gen) is kind of lost and the flavor of playing a CC loses its uniqueness, and thats what the amendment seeks to tackle; limiting the rate at which Naztherak can conceive CC to encourage Naztheraks to use the Bane available to them, as well as the Inherent Ritual to create CCs.

 

TL;DR, the actual issue is that CCs are meant to be unique, and the way with which some people are able to literally have 18 of them running around from one singular Naztherak is a little stupid and defeats the point.

 

Edit: Also, I'm not trying to be fun police lol. It's not like I'm killing off all CCs that exist pre-amendment. Like I told Nightcastor in a reply, CCs that already exist can continue existing, this is just a band-aid fix until we get an actual CC rewrite that addresses these issues, and prevents people from spamming CCs.

[spaazmatism 1018]

17 minutes ago, PrettyKittyKeia said:

People like playing CCs for various reasons. LOTC created a tiefling CA and people want to play as teifling CAs, kinda silly to serverely limit a widely enjoyed character type. It was very obvious that this was going to happen: people wanting to play tieflings and going through the avenues to play them. Oh no, the consquences of our actions have arrived...

I understand the intent to control the theme of Naztherak and all the branching subcultures along with it. To some extent, that is needed with dark magic groups. But I don't see how limiting the amount of CCs a Naz can make will improve roleplay beyond "I don't get to see this thing I don't like seeing." 

 

People are allowed to enjoy things on LOTC without having to conform to the specific playstyles any one group or multiple groups play by. People should be allowed to have their fun without such visceral reactions all the time. 

 

Things that originally are meant to be rare, have the risk of not becomming rare in the future. Things become popular, and that isn't inherently bad. Even if the popular thing doesn't follow with original expectations. 

Note: I don't play a CC, and I have no intention of ever playing one. But I'm lying out my ass if I say seeing all the CCs running around affects me oocly or my character irply. I just don't get the massive hate they get. Boo hoo, people are playing special snowflakes and are roleplaying having a life on those special snowflakes. Tf is the actual issue?

ccs are not fun, unique, or in any way interesting when any cretin can just make one. sorry. ccs are not tieflings, they are a DIRECT consequence of ixris meddling with the mortal plane and such should be acknowledged i think

ccs should be a limited thing, and one that has serious consequences for the cc beyond being colourful

at the end of the day theyre meant to be evil im afraid

[Sonybut7 530]

Add in a Fertility limit: 2 Cursed Children per person before they become incapable of procreation.

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

1 hour ago, Navigator said:

prevent Naztherak from spamming CCs because it is not meant to be a Slice of Life throw-away kind of character

I agree that forcing every kid a Naz to have be a CC was probably a bad move. Having normal kids should still be a possibility. 

 

I think the one cc per Naz thing is a bit much, though. Especially since CCs are kill on sight for so many players. Think it might be nice to allow the creation of another CC if the other PKs. Would hate to have high hopes for a CC candidate, they suck or are inactive, and you just blew your one shot for this type of rp narrative.

 

A cooldown timer would be better since nothing stops someone from making a CC and then never playing LOTC again imo, but that comes with its own stuff I'm not invested enough to think about. 

 

57 minutes ago, spaazmatism said:

ccs are not fun, unique, or in any way interesting when any cretin can just make one.

 

If the only thing that makes your character unique, fun, and interesting is the fact they have a rare, gatekept CA attached to it, then your character as a character itself is actually none of those things. If your CA cannot be fun and interesting unless it is rare and hard to find.. it actually is not fun or interesting, just rare enough to spark an emotional response in people when they see one. 

 

Every character anyone makes of any type has the potential to be fun and interesting. And only 5 people having access to a CA does not in any way suddenly make them fun to interact with, lol. 

 

"This thing should only exist to be EVIL" If a cursed character wants to fight their basic nature to become something more, who are you to strip that narrative from someone? These aren't walking corpses or skeletons or literal demons. From what I understand, they are either just normal people born under a warlocke, or some random sod a warlocke cursed beyond their will. And you're going to say the cursed character must warp and change their identity oocly to fit the niche you want to see? You don't want players to roleplay an inner strife of wanting to do good, but always being labeled and criticized for their outward appearance? 

 

You and I just have different definitions of what makes a character interesting, unique, and fun, it seems. What is the point of having Demon CAs and CC CAs if you both want them to be unaliable pawns of evil? Leave some room for moral vagueness, sheesh. 

 

----

 

I think it was a very bad idea for CCs to be forced with every child a warlocke has. I can readily see how this has lead to an oversaturation of a niche that the community would like to see come under control. I hope any changes that do come about involving CC do encourage the behaviors and attitudes both the community and those interested in the CA will find invigorating and positive.

 

Thanks for the explanations and points of view, helps me understand what the actual issue at hand is. 

[Rig 17580]

Repping because it makes the worst people on the server mald (not that everyone who disagrees is bad; I just arbitrate that many people I think suck are certainly upset by this prospect).

 

I will say this though - in principle, I think these things should be policed in role-play, and through existing rules. Like Elves not being allowed to have many kids. IMO it's better to hassle these people in role-play and disconnect the people in-game. I think an amendment cannot fix what some in-game elbow grease can. But ultimately it's on LT and the Naz community to decide if this is a favorable outcome. 

[_AzureLexi 766]

Hi I'm on indefinite hiatus rn because I saw Azuras being a mess and went "nahh," but as someone who does play a warlock's child, I have thoughts.

 

Fundamentally, this amendment doesn't change anything. There's still a Bane that makes you birth cursed children (which arguably makes this a small buff, because it lets Warlocks take that bane), I think the only thing this amendment does is wipe away some important theming of the original lore piece. The fact that a warlock's sins affect not just them, but their kids as well, drives in just how selfish it is to be a warlock.

At the end of the day, Warlocks having big families makes sense. Kids are the easiest people to indoctrinate. The stigma of "warlock's child" will always follow them, and the prejudice against devils makes them easier to radicalize. Evil cults with poison tongues laced in honey are a really cool way to play Naztherak.

 

My opinion is that "being a warlock fucks up your kids" should be doubled down on, not limited. Give Cursed Children malices (like the Pallodium rewrite tried), give them "locked" spell slots that can only be used on Naztherak, give them a sense of impending doom or proneness to anxiety. Literally any downside that actively affects roleplay tbh, that drills in both "Your parent was a jackass and caused this in you", and makes cursed children more likely to follow after their parents.

[Halfirate 135]

For a solid handful of CAs (such as sorvians and automatons), the creator has THREE slots that are on a 1 month OOC cooldown, or a 3 month OOC cooldown if all three slots are used. Why not just use these rules? This would provide a ceiling for the Tiefling Baby Factories out there AND provide Naz with a way to have regular-looking children who don't out them within 0.2 seconds.

[Frostdrop1 1843]

3 hours ago, Navigator said:

prevent Naztherak from spamming CCs because it is not meant to be a Slice of Life throw-away kind of character. They are cursed beings, and their curse should be an ADDITIONAL FLAIR to their character, not their defining trait.

While I frankly understand the sides you are quite literally arguing to make their curse their defining trait. You cannot in the same breath go "it is not meant to be X" then "it should be Y" then say "Y should not be their defining trait". You contradicted yourself outright. There are the many other people that look at CC and then basically just hate the amount not following the hellish route. Things are supposed to develop naturally irply, and most of these current characters have had a lot of influence outside of the hells to push them elsewhere. I don't think the people that look at the SoL CC actually understand most of their character arcs or the influences going into making those characters what they are. They've seen one aspect of that character, latched onto it, and then decided it is categorically the thing they don't like - not living THEIR PERCEPTION of a cursed existence. And, in this case, YOUR perception of a cursed existence.

All of these characters, whether they involve themselves in the hells or not, live a cursed existence. They are characters which are oppressed on a macro-level by The Empire, which are frequently told to kill themselves, that are often manipulated and play-things for other characters, some of whom know their ultimate fate and can choose to be plagued by it, are marked out by society for being other and regularly profiled. Some people, of course, take this further to twist their physical attributes more than others - and some don't. 

Now the person that cause this issue in particular - because this is, frankly, a targetted amendement and I think anyone in the community who is paying attention knows it - has children which have rejected that character because of what they are and what they did to them at birth. The CC-warlock parent relationship is ahighly interesting one because the person you love also completely ruined your life. They also have children who have embraced the hells. I do not personally like how many children they have, though it is not necessarily less than a noble family. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean I think it should be controlled via OOC means.

I think you should go handle the problem in roleplay rather than creating an amendment to stomp all over the many in-game years of roleplay that people did to make a nicer evironment for CCs, rather than limiting potential narratives, and also indirectly benefit naz by making them slightly less identifiable.  


Edit: I fundamentally agree with making CC cursed existence worse via malices and locked magic slots tho cuz I think it's cool and it also doesn't necessarily screw with the lore.
Double Edit: I also think not having children at all is a viable trade-off because it could still be seen as a naz tell, but it does mean you can't have the CC-parent relationship without getting someone exceptionally cool to kidnap.
  

[amongus 816]

4 hours ago, spaazmatism said:

ccs are not fun, unique, or in any way interesting when any cretin can just make one. sorry. ccs are not tieflings, they are a DIRECT consequence of ixris meddling with the mortal plane and such should be acknowledged i think

ccs should be a limited thing, and one that has serious consequences for the cc beyond being colourful

at the end of the day theyre meant to be evil im afraid

 

they're tieflings bar for bar in both lore and appearance btw lol

 

don't disagree w/ naz not mass-spawning them just think you shouldn't lie to yourself and make something deeper than it actually is