Unattunement is Flawed

[Areon 947]

8 minutes ago, Evonpire said:

 

Some misinformation here - Paladin DC was mechanically chaos DC and could be done for any reason (and has been done for reasons outside of the creeds).Though largely the checks-and-balance was pariah status by both the community and Paladin events if you abused it and that it was rarely spread, so convincing another Warden to DC was difficult.

 

Old paladin lore was a tad different iirc

 

I remember the tenant baiting with Elysium very well, as well as us having delmodan bait someone to the druid grove so we could bag and disconnect them for tenants, and the subsequent argument OOCly about the exact tenant wording after.

[blackhand7 368]

4 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

this has happened before and there are generally plots to seer wack some guy mid dc so you dont have to kill them but they forget regardless. its just kinda what lotc is now

Then can't you just punish those people? I feel like that's an obvious attempt to get around the rules oocly. 

[marsloll 1384]

just get reattuned lil bro ... it ain't the end the world, you can do all the things a druid can do without being a druid in the first place ... don't need magic to hug a tree ... 

 

regardless, druids have never had lore-enforced tenets besides dedicancy (which is already up to the players), and the issues you're bringing up have been issues in the past to begin with - tale as old as time, which is why preventative measures have already been put in place in regards to how to disconnect someone in the first place. dc wars have spanned multiple magics regardless of their dc clauses, and should there have been ooc issues in regards to any roleplay, a report should be made. dc will never seem entirely fair to any party, whether it's the feeling of being targeted or simply feeling bad oocly.

 

im sorry if you or your friend has felt wronged by this system, but you are not the first and you likely will not be the last. either system has its ups and downs but the general consensus seems like chaos dc allows for a faster approach in regards to rp, rather than rule-enforced dc which requires staff investigation and enforcement that may or may not end up panning in your favour anyways. your argument of the aspects being deities unfortunately does not mean a lot for the aspects have not ever show up for druids in a very, very long time. they rarely gaf and the mani are often the ones that interact with descendants the most, and i can say that animal demigods do not particularly care if druids are at each others' throats.

 

while i too can understand that killing someone after taking away their magic is harsh, and leaves much to be desired from oocly and irply, the reason that i've seen stated by multiple druids who have done this is so they don't have to deal with the irp fallout, however selfish as that might be. unfortunately, unless there is genuine lore breaking, metagaming, metaplaying, etc., it will be out of staff jurisdiction. it will always be a fuss, whether you like it or not, it is all dependant on the players involved to provide enough grace to each party. in regards to recent events, in my opinion, i will state that more than enough grace and patience was extended out to every party involved, beyond the scope of what is normally offered given the circumstances.

 

in regards to strictly roleplay, the events themselves while disheartening can be turned into more story for the character, whether they truly seek redemption or wish to double down in scorn and malice, it opens more doors for a character that may or may not have been closed. magic and feats and all that fancy extra stuff are tools to craft an enticing narrative for yourself and the people around you. if you lose one, you still have many others at your disposal. if you simply give up after, then imo you didn't deserve whatever you lose in the first place. lotc is a creative medium, i wish that people learn that they can turn whatever happened to them into something positive for them and the server's story as a whole. 

 

i do hope that these replies have offered some insight into your question, and perhaps helped quell some lingering concerns that you may have had.

[Sr_Dimentio 586]

Disconnection AND then killing? Lame... Choose a punishment... You have to like think it's a player not some Evil NPC... Atleast let them have RP with it. (Atleast my opinión hehe)

Edited December 24, 2025 by Sr_Dimentio

[blackhand7 368]

1 hour ago, marslol said:

while i too can understand that killing someone after taking away their magic is harsh, and leaves much to be desired from oocly and irply, the reason that i've seen stated by multiple druids who have done this is so they don't have to deal with the irp fallout, however selfish as that might be. unfortunately, unless there is genuine lore breaking, metagaming, metaplaying, etc., it will be out of staff jurisdiction.

I agree with everything else you've said (beyond the situation everyone is vagueposting about which I don't know enough about to comment on and I also don't think lone instances should dictate policy) but this seems, like, not a really good attitude to have or one that the server should seek to uphold? The entire point of being on the server is dealing with the consequences of your actions. That's where all the fun and interesting stuff is. I also think its foolish to build systems that rely on every person being good faith- that is simply untenable.

 

Systems instead should encourage and force good behavior, and I don't think its unreasonable for staff or the lore to set up systems that guide towards that. Disconnection is one such system, in which staff (or players) may intercede and force a certain course of action, in order to keep the magic relatively coherent and encourage roleplay, in addition to expelling bad actors. I don't see an inherent problem with putting such a safeguard in place for the person being disconnected (that they may not be killed after disconnection), so that they have something they can do irp with losing their magic. Disconnection is an inherently hostile action, and if someone is not willing to deal with the consequences of such an act rply then frankly I don't think they should do it. 

 

I think your point about disconnection being a way to grow and to grow and make events for a character is a really good one; but that should apply to the disconnectors as well as the disconnected. You should have to deal with the consequences of your actions; there is no point in being on the server if you are not. Furthermore, if the disconnected person loses all memory of why they were disconnected, it feels near-impossible for them to build a storyline for their character about it. 

 

Edited December 24, 2025 by blackhand7

[Tav 4336]

7 minutes ago, Sr_Dimentio said:

Disconnection AND then killing? Lame... Choose a punishment... You have to like think it's a player not some Evil NPC... Atleast let them have RP with it. (Atleast my opinión hehe)

 

[marsloll 1384]

1 minute ago, blackhand7 said:

I agree with everything else you've said (beyond the situation everyone is vagueposting about which I don't know enough about to comment on and I also don't think lone instances should dictate policy) but this seems, like, not a really good attitude to have or one that the server should seek to uphold? The entire point of being on the server is dealing with the consequences of your actions. That's where all the fun and interesting stuff is. I also think its foolish to build systems that rely on every person being good faith- that is simply untenable.

 

Systems instead should encourage and force good behavior, and I don't think its unreasonable for staff or the lore to set up systems that guide towards that. Disconnection is one such system, in which staff (or players) may intercede and force a certain course of action, in order to keep the magic relatively coherent and encourage roleplay, in addition to expelling bad actors. I don't see an inherent problem with putting such a safeguard in place for the person being disconnected, so that they have something they can do with losing their magic. Disconnection is an inherently hostile action, and if you are not willing to deal with the consequences of such an act rply then frankly I don't think you should do it. 

 

I think your point about disconnection being a way to grow and to grow and make events for a character is a really good one; but that should apply to the disconnectors as well as the disconnected. You should have to deal with the consequences of your actions; there is no point in being on the server if you are not. Furthermore, if the disconnected person loses all memory of why they were disconnected, it feels near-impossible for them to build a storyline for their character about it. 

 

 

with the context that i had, this rp was done with the intent of dealing with the consequences of your actions in regards to the parties involved. oocly, they were given as much information on why this was happening etc etc to better explain those irp actions (which was not required of anyone to do) and the following rp was based off of what was exchanged and what was told irply.

 

unfortunately lotc is not a very good place in general when it comes to dealing with getting attached, etc. you either have people who dc others for breathing or other petty reasons that may feel unjust, or you have to essentially do DMV roleplay ooc and irp which involves more people than it should've in the first place. the best way that i can explain it, is either you give power to the people, or you let the government do the job for you. to my knowledge, the only strict tenet-based magic is seer - and that only works because seer in itself is very ooc magic in the first place where everyone already knows each other oocly to some degree. it feels less of an out of the blue situation and is entirely based off of the rp that happens around the characters. 

 

i don't disagree with your last point, i did in fact state that killing leaves much to be desired and most that do it usually do it to escape irp blame (not saying all do etc - rp reasons are rp reasons). however, growing your character from death and memory loss is not as impossible as you think it is - the very absence is even to spark change and direction if you really wanted to. 

[NightOfTheWind 3226]

16 minutes ago, Tav said:

 

 

[Karina 1882]

2 hours ago, spaazmatism said:

chaos dc is generally not an issue and though it does suck to lose a character, it sucks FAR WORSE to not be able to remove problematic players from ur community, because that suckage affects the whole community

looks at seer sadly

[Cobbler 809]

Never played a druid before but from prior experience in attempting to get into it, I think my major grip with any form of DC would be how long getting some of these magics take. I do think alot of the more hardcore roleplay scenes are slowly going away so I'm glad that there's avenues like Druidism that still exist that take IRL months, however if I spent IRL months on obtaining a magic/system just for someone to force it away from me because I don't fit the mold I'd  be incredibly peeved as well.

 

That being said LoTC needs to be written by the players vice a staff system so it only makes sense that there's a checks and balance system in place.

[blackhand7 368]

30 minutes ago, marslol said:

with the context that i had, this rp was done with the intent of dealing with the consequences of your actions in regards to the parties involved. oocly, they were given as much information on why this was happening etc etc to better explain those irp actions (which was not required of anyone to do) and the following rp was based off of what was exchanged and what was told irply.

Yeah just to clarify my problem is not at all with like, chaos DC. I think its a good system, and I'm very in favor of consequences in roleplay. I am fully in favor of dcing people for petty or just flat out wrong reasons. From what I've heard, the one in this instance seemed pretty reasonable. 

 

I'm just saying that I think the system would be much more enjoyable for both parties and condusive to RP if there was some sort of rule or safeguard in place to prevent people killing eachother right after the dc took place. I think its very hard to build a cohesive narrative out of losing an integral piece of your character when you do not know nor can you ever know under server rules why you lost it. I don't think something as majorly altering to a character as disconnection should give the disconnector a get out of jail free card to escape any narratives that might arise from it. 

Edited December 24, 2025 by blackhand7
clarity

[marsloll 1384]

27 minutes ago, blackhand7 said:

I'm just saying that I think the system would be much more enjoyable for both parties and condusive to RP if there was some sort of rule or safeguard in place to prevent people killing eachother right after the dc took place. I think its very hard to build a cohesive narrative out of losing an integral piece of your character when you do not know nor can you ever know under server rules why you lost it. I don't think something as majorly altering to a character as disconnection should give the disconnector a get out of jail free card to escape any narratives that might arise from it. 

 

this last part is just how the cookie crumbles - its inherently exploiting cemented mechanics in the server that will not change, at least any time soon. however, i do not know how you could feasibly put a rule of "hey so after you do this, you cant kill them bc thats mean" into lore without making it sound like you're covering your ass, let alone making it connected to lore in any way. aspects dgaf, and mani don't care either. none of it is nice! it's not supposed to be - which is simply the reality of the situation. passing it off to staff won't make it any easier either bc if there are lore rules and reasoning, than nothing can be done about bad actors if they haven't done anything against that particular code. staff want to be able to be as hands-off as possible to allow players to handle themselves accordingly and not have to hand-hold them through everything, not to mention the lack of knowledge of druidism as a whole on the team.

[blackhand7 368]

39 minutes ago, marslol said:

i do not know how you could feasibly put a rule of "hey so after you do this, you cant kill them bc thats mean" into lore without making it sound like you're covering your ass, let alone making it connected to lore in any way.

I don't know if I fully agree with this? Beyond just having it be that culturally, druids view unattunement as a fate worse than death and thus far worse a punishment than striking someone from the mortal coil, you could have them, as a byproduct of the anatunement ritual, get abudcted by nature spirits and sent to a torture dimension before being shot out in a random forest. Or maybe they are put in a cocoon as a byproduct of the unatunement ritual, from which they emerge weaker and stripped of their powers. Or maybe death cancels out the process of unatunement if it happens soon after, or is done by the druid who unatuned the other. 

 

Regardless, there are plenty of systems that exist in roleplay that do not make sense in the context of the lore and mechanics server. The prison capture limit. Monk revival. Soulbind tokens. All of these exist to improve player experience and roleplay. 

 

39 minutes ago, marslol said:

staff won't make it any easier either bc if there are lore rules and reasoning, than nothing can be done about bad actors if they haven't done anything against that particular code

I think just because bad actors exist and will always exist doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to regulate things. I don't think the killing in this instance was done by bad actors, just that the server's lore and rules are set up in a suboptimal way and as such should be amended. I cannot think of a single instance wherein following the disconnection with an execution (excluding a PK) does not lead to worse roleplay and narrative for all involved, and as such I don't see a reason why not to put rules against it into place. 

Edited December 24, 2025 by blackhand7

[Hiccup392 724]

Hello lotc nation, as an arbiter of the roleplay this not so vaguely references, i will chime in.

 

On the aspect of chaos disconnection, and disconnection from magic in general, there will never be a situation in which it isn't uncomfortable and sucks. It is not meant to be friendly and comforting, even when it is a willing disconnection, because it is a perversion of the life that your character (and the player) has come to be familiar with.

 

When you submit an application for any magic, you as the player should be well aware of the connotations that align with the acceptance of that application. Side effects of magic, cultural associations, and indeed, the conclusion of your connection. This, in turn, is a filed record of your consent to participate in whatever situation you wind up in, even if it is not one you favor or want.

Your teacher sucks if you don't know this.

 

On a personal level, I was utterly terrified of being disconnected from Paladinism after reading the lore over, and over, and over again, and ended up praying it would never come to be by the way I played and by residing within a community that would keep this from happening from a purely roleplay standpoint. Yet, it always lingered, the idea of being ripped from what seemingly made my character “whole”, what gave them purpose.

It happened regardless.

Not from being bound by three peers and belittled, but by the failure of a community as a whole and the success of another overtaking.

 

It sucked. It still sucks. I am not here to offer advice, comfort, or metagame because of ooc issues arising from a roleplay situation.

I'm here to agree with the comments that state, “this is not an automatic end”. Druidism is one of the most forgiving deific magics because it isn't one-and-done in terms of connection. Yes, it takes a disgusting amount of time to even get to the point of connection. Lore issue. Having your character experience confusing, traumatic, exhausting, and otherworldly consequences does in fact open more doors than people stop to consider, because all they can focus on is the immediate negative. If you don't like the doors, pry open a window.

 

I encourage all to stop and think about what they can do before jumping to the harsh lows of death or retirement for their characters in any situation, not just something like this. Sometimes what you need most is that fresh breath of air, that change of community and roleplay.

I encourage reports to be filed if you ever believe you have been wronged oocly, or metagamed against.

 

[Chuuwys 502]

1 hour ago, Cobbler said:

Never played a druid before but from prior experience in attempting to get into it, I think my major grip with any form of DC would be how long getting some of these magics take. I do think alot of the more hardcore roleplay scenes are slowly going away so I'm glad that there's avenues like Druidism that still exist that take IRL months, however if I spent IRL months on obtaining a magic/system just for someone to force it away from me because I don't fit the mold I'd  be incredibly peeved as well.

 

1 hour ago, blackhand7 said:

I'm just saying that I think the system would be much more enjoyable for both parties and condusive to RP if there was some sort of rule or safeguard in place to prevent people killing eachother right after the dc took place.

 

its worth mentioning here i think that the entry into druidism is a frequently discussed matter even within the community. it can be pretty difficult to actually DC anybody becasue the ways to do so IRPly require a very good reasoning, multiple parties to get involved to do so, requires ooc proof of irp interactions to justify it if metaplay concerns are called, and actual reassurance that the actions sparking the need for a DC are bad enough to warrant it too. if people dont have even one of these elements then its hard to justify a DC. the situation OP was quietly referring to took half an IRL day of roleplay from instigation to ending, and who knows how long people knew stuff irp before that.

also, people can just... lie irply. blackbagging is a thing, sure, but you need people to agree to it or convince them, and because of the gravity of the DC and how it effects everyone involved, nobody really does it without good cause. some might be more inclined to do a DC IRPly than others, which is an interesting dynamic imo. druids are not a homogenous hivemind, which is GOOD. even then, like was said before, if you lose it there are ways to get it back. and if they are executed afterwards, that should be based on irp convictions - to assume its done in bad faith is to, in bad faith, assume a character doesnt/cant have their own motivations or principles in the matter.

the current safeguards are established IRPly. people not involved with the relevant communities won't realize that or understand the degree to how seriously the matter is taken. this is better than people instead being able to dodge accountability IRPly over an OOC relationship with whoever moderates said DC. this idea that you could lose your attunement and never know after being executed is a complaint that would only exist if you insisted your character would be resurrected by the monks and choose to actively investigate that loss, in which case i'd have to assume you want to continue to play your character anyways and try figuring out what happened - that in itself is its own roleplay. thats up to the player.

Edited December 24, 2025 by Chuuwys