[Re-Write] [Voidal Lore] The Voidal Connection

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

4 hours ago, ClassyDryad said:

The infinite casting of t3 spells and the increase of exhaustion beyond the levels even current voidstalkers can do seems like eminence powercreep to me IDK. I don't personally think a mage should be able to sustain a flamethrower for 40 emotes (80 for a voidstalker now???.) Mage's should be good at casting given that unlike other magics they are fully locked into it effectively but 2 t5 4 t4 8 t3 16 t2 has been a perfectly fine system in my opinion, if a bit strong in itself.

 

Not sure what you mean by "spellforges and marts that cannot be updated to this should be shelved" is for, I can't think of any of them that have changed substantially. Are there any you have in mind?

 

Adding a compatability section to the lore is just going to be a drain on st, especially for a category like voidal. I'd just put "beastfolk are compatible, everything is compatible unless it says otherwise or lacks a soul."

 

I might of missed it but I would consider putting scion interaction within the exhaustion section because as far as I know since they just "have half the mana" but t3 spells are infinite in this scions would just be capable of casting forever as written.

We've discussed this privately and I'll type up a larger response but voidal magical heavily favours T4/T5 spells; T3 and below, if they even have utilize and mechanical effect in combat, do not achieve an effort beyond what someone with a potion or just a regular john horen (knight) can accomplish with a sword and a bow. 

 

Non-updatable MArts, to me are those like 7, 19, 26, 30, & 31. They're just too reliant on lore that is either "bad" lore per ST or just extremely outdated based on equally outdated mechanics.

 

Compatibility section (besides other things) is being updated. As for Scions/Voidstalkers, changes to them will come if this passes as part of updating the many, many pages this will effect. 

4 hours ago, ClassyDryad said:

I'd also consider including something that talks about deployables and how they work (limited to the same MAs, only one) and specify that only these can be maintained while casting another spell in combat (noncombatively people can be silly.) might be somewhere already but I missed it if so. I would also personally like to see something more creative for auras (where are my hiccups :( ) since idk magic color juice floating around you is a bit boring and you shouldn't need to be a voidstalker to make it less boring. 

Stuff I notably liked (because I focused too much on what I view as problems)

- Specifying connection as a thing you have to do
- Voidal connection FA, if marked with all your other FAs and MAs, seems like it could be useful to ST for tracking people. Also another FA for my collection...
- Not needing to do aura for noncombative casting is good its why I avoid flashy ones and I would love this.
- All around a lot of good clarifications in all respects
- Stuff being tier based rather than a separate time progression (was frustrating for newer players and could be technically be abused in a way I will not mention unless this gets passed.)
- Reduced learning time for mages who have already mastered magics is a big plus (does this mean you can self teach a magic you dropped off your own TA in 4 weeks?)
- Having a hard set mana system is a good thing, given that even if you are not powergaming current lore it often FEELS like you are to people who don't understand the casting system.
- Needing to be T5 to make arcanium is good (I still think scions should be able to make it but a lil baby wizard should not be able to.)
- I WANT MUSIN WIZARDS! PLEASE! The mice must cast.

Also cursed children are an other feat not a dark feat :)

Deployables are mentioned within the pages they are useable within, so I dont feel a need to re-state what those pages state. I dropped hiccups bc they were kinda unused. Scion Arcanium will be addressed should this pass

1 hour ago, JustMeMorgan said:

After reading through some of the comments here are my suggestions (compiling others ideas too- but I’m expressing my own agreement so read theirs too!)

1. Escalate exhaustion by T3 being one, T4 two, and T5 being three.
2. make thaumburn incur instantly after going over 10 levels of exhaustion: I.e. 3 T5 spells and anything more than a T4 is thaumburn. It’ll force mages to reserve big spells. It’ll also mean eminence is still functional as you could sling off many T3 spells (let’s also consider emote count, a T5 spell can take 5 or so emotes per spell so they’d literally have to spend 20 emotes casting to kill themselves instantly)
3. I am currently writing this on the phone but I’d suggest stating (if not already) that exhaustion incurs after spell completion (you may have done this)
4. Change compatibilities to be “anything unless specified in that lore” and you can include the table to be “examples of compatible lore” - this means it doesn’t feel restricted but actually more “hey this is what you can also be and use!”
5. I enjoyed the comment on attunement- perhaps state that mages of old had been able to directly breach by themselves, perhaps unknowingly due to magic being more Freeform, however as the void or veil ages it has become more spefcific and requires some sort of catalyst or bridge
6. I personally feel illusion needs a full rewrite and I’m almost tempted to start doing it- but I do agree, illusions such as loud bangs or chattering in the ear should not be the 4 emote quick cast from 50 blocks away just to ruin my day
7. I do believe you should alter it that “line of sight is not required for the initial spell” as it does mean mages can no longer use cover. But I would perhaps specify that connection should be noticeable and not done prior conflict 

1. As stated above, a vast majority of T3 spells require 3-4 emotes, and do not achieve more than what a normal guy could do with a normal weapon in the same span. The few cases where T3 spells vastly exceed this, I have plans to address should this pass

2. I'm not sure if your misreading it, but it does. The moment you cross the threshold into the final tier of exhaustion, your spells fail and you suffer a negative effect. You cannot eminent your way through it, somehow. Equally, exhaustion only begins to decrease 3 emotes after all T4/T5 spells are no longer being charged, casted, or sustained.

3. Already does this.

4. Doing this 😭

5. I've avoided making any remarks about IRP theorys or lore and will likely continue to; I may post something if this passes concerning aura/the connection as to a "why" but i imagine this will be explained as every other big change has been explained

6. mrow

7. The intent is primarily that you cannot sit behind a wall in whisper, then shout emote emerge and drop a tidal wave. I may have worded this wrong, but specifically non-projectile/melee spells will require you to see the targetted area for the entire charge, cast, and sustain duration. This would only effect stingyparrot's numendil assassination RP to my understand sinces hes the only one that does it regularly enough to be a problem

[sam33497 7356]

14 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

The mage can freely cast T1-T3 spells within combat. [T4] spells will generate [1] Exhaustion, & [T5] spells will generate [2] Exhaustion.

This would turn my eminent into thanos

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

21 minutes ago, sam33497 said:

This would turn my eminent into thanos

If you ever start playing him again

[Anbennar 2351]

okay this is starting to look better I can lowkey fw this now. 

 

Is the desire to have an FA dedicated entirely for the fact a character is connected to the void so that ST can more easily track the progression system that you have proposed? Will all Voidal FA's, MA's, and TA's that a character possesses be included on this FA for tracking?

 

 

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

24 minutes ago, Anbennar said:

okay this is starting to look better I can lowkey fw this now. 

 

Is the desire to have an FA dedicated entirely for the fact a character is connected to the void so that ST can more easily track the progression system that you have proposed? Will all Voidal FA's, MA's, and TA's that a character possesses be included on this FA for tracking?

 

 

Mostly. The point is that there is so much voidal lore that requires tracking in some manner that its far easier to centralize it in one place to track it all then double down and insist everyone track everything. Plus it makes things much easier

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

For anyone who had concerns, changes have been pushed through - see changelog at the bottom and give it a re-read. 

[Samler 1564]

Can't wait to restrict my minor tp from 16 to 12 blocks to make it free, have unlimited duration on deployable spells of T3-, I also suggest moving the voidal weakness of T3+ down to T4+, poor Ice Atronach. And suddenly lesser souled creatures (musin/hou'zi) can learn voidal magic? :P Just keep it to kha which has descendent-level souls please. And please remove the requirement of a voidal object to connect, if we old hats could do without, then you younglings can too. Oh and can't wait to count in half points of exhaustion (mana obelisk/tear/heath/V-stalker)

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

17 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

IF THIS IS ACCEPTED, several amendments have already been written to update/match existing lore pages to the new standards/mechanics set in this page. As with all great classics, this was primarily written at early hours; please let me know if you spot a formatting error or a statement that doesn't read right. It is likely not intentional.

 

3 minutes ago, Samler said:

Can't wait to restrict my minor tp from 16 to 12 blocks to make it free, have unlimited duration on deployable spells of T3-, I also suggest moving the voidal weakness of T3+ down to T4+, poor Ice Atronach. And suddenly lesser souled creatures (musin/hou'zi) can learn voidal magic? :P Just keep it to kha which has descendent-level souls please. And please remove the requirement of a voidal object to connect, if we old hats could do without, then you younglings can too. Oh and can't wait to count in half points of exhaustion (mana obelisk/tear/heath/V-stalker)

 

[Samler 1564]

Just now, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

 

Many a statements doesn't read right, please read former reply. 

[Slorbin 2932]

STEALTH ADDING MUSIN TO THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO CAN LEARN VOIDAL MAGIC ME LIKEY

[Reece Nolan 996]

✩ While a mage’s aura is entirely freeform in presentation, it must be encompassing in some manner. It is considered powergaming to have an aura that only manifests in small areas, such as the hands or eyes, within combat. 

I understand the argument for eyes, but why are hands considered powergame-y? I usually have my Aura be a pastel red light that glows from my palms to indicate a voidal connection is present, overriding any gloves or jewelry. I genuinely did not know people have a problem with this??

 

✩ A mage’s aura cannot provide any form of obscurement or blinding brightness, and at most is translucent. The aura likewise must surround the mage and cannot be displaced in any manner. No Stands.  

 

Okay so to simplify the issue of freeform, every mage effectively has a colorful/slightly patterned DBZ super saiyan aura around them, is that what this is saying or am I misunderstanding this?

✩ A mage is not required to include the name, emote or sustain counts, nor their current level of Exhaustion within casting emotes. During [ET] events, however, it is expected the mage do this alongside clearly naming their current spell of use.

 

I feel like this could be re-worded. I get what you're going for, trying to remove the obligation to tell your opponent what you're doing, but the way this is written I feel also gives an excuse for people to engage in apathetic bad-faith vague emoting. It's not a bad thing that people indicate exhaustion, spell count or selected spell, just a courtesy. It's important to remember the majority of people you fight will not have read voidal lore pages and likely have no idea what your spell does, so it's extremely helpful to them that you spell it out for them to engage fairly, especially with pages like the recent Fire Evo re-write whose redlines specifically state it is the mage's responsibility to clearly explain the effects of the spell they are using and how the fire works. This is moreso a nitpick than it is anything to lose sleep over, though.

✩ A forced disconnection for any reason preventing re-connection for [1] emote following the disconnection to ANY magic. After that, the mage can connect to any magic as normal. This does NOT prevent any other actions during this period.

 

Typo, I think you meant to say "A forced disconnection for any reason prevents re-connection...".

 

◈ Any form of harmful or wounding physical contact or pain beyond a scrap, cut, slap, or shove will disconnect the mage.

 

scrape*

 

To cast spells, a mage will always require [1] emote to establish a connection to the Void, which they passively maintain throughout interrupted casting.

 

uninterrupted*

 

Mᴀɴᴀ & Exʜᴀᴜꜱᴛɪᴏɴ

 

I have mixed feelings on this entire section. For one, I really like the fact that we are clearly dictating how much a mage can cast, a large part of powergaming/weakgaming that occurs with voidal mages comes from the vagueness of the original lore post. This, truthfully, is a systemic problem spurred by both player writers and LT writers fear of committing to a hard stance. For some reason, there's this pervading feeling that nothing can be clearly defined otherwise it encroaches on the player's expression, which instead just happens to be the source of almost all powergaming (how can you expect to enforce powergaming when 2/3rds of the time the referenced lore is vagueposting or just outright doesn't account for the existence of other magics, and asking for clarification in the ST discord gets you accused of being a filthy minmaxxer or the classic "find out IRP"? I would say this is entirely an ST generated problem, but it also is a consequence of the fact that a lot of lore is also written by players who do not know every facet of LOTC lore.)

 

That said, this solution, while neat, feels very game-y. It's also incredibly imbalanced, giving T5 mages more than 2 casts of a T5 spell is kind of insane considering the new Fire Evo rewrite has only three spells you'd ever consider cast at tier 5, those being Fire Projectile, Fire Storm and Flamethrower, and are absolutely not required to be T5 to get the job done. This same problem extends to the unlimited use of T1 - T3, do you realize how many Fire projectiles that is? "T2: The projectile is the size of a fist. 3 emotes. Every [2] additional projectiles requires 1 extra charge emote, capped at [3] max. Charging any further projectiles raises the manacost to [T3], capped at [7] total projectiles." Not to mention almost every single 2 Slotted spell in Fire evo is either T3 or T4. Accepting this lore piece as is would effectively make Fire Evocationists mana-less (exhaustion-less?). I think you may have been considering events when doing the balancing of this part, but keep in mind most combative encounters rarely last beyond 8 - 9 turn rotations (times you can emote), meaning under the current 64 base system allows you to at maximum cast two T5 spells assuming combat is abnormally long. The reason for this implimentation, is because mages are meant to be an alternative style of combat, not a better kind of combat outright. Mana and exhaustion pulls them back into the same realm of pacing that melee and ranged fighters with no MAs or FAs typically encounter, so that they're not spamming attacks consequence free while the warrior is huffing and puffing after his sixth sword swing. This, however, is my interpretation, my opinion.

 

I also like what you did with Thaumburn, but I would maybe change the second offense to something other than knocking themself out, that seems more like a failsafe to keep you from getting to stage 3. I like to think that Thaumburn in this lore submission would act as an ingame wrist slap on powergamers. I would even go so far as to say that mods who find mages powergaming exhaustion should be able to mark their Voidal Connection feat permanently with one stage of thaumburn, so rather than a random blacklist with no in roleplay explanation, continued powergaming outright PK's your character. This might be seen as a bit harsh though.

✩ Should a character be subjected to arcane atrophy & magical weakness from another source, whichever weakens the character most will always take precedence; arcane atrophy does not “stack” or otherwise overlap with other sources of magically induced weakness.

 

Does this mean Voidal Mage Mystic Conjurors aren't 4x weakened?

 

[Tier 4] [Empowering Circle] [Ritual]

 

Empowering Circle of multiple fire mages seeking to empower Fulminating Blast would be hilarious.

 

The learning of rare voidal knowledge, unless specified otherwise within a lore page, only requires the mage to partake in the ritual at least once, or be instructed upon it by a mage of the appropriate tear to lead said process. The only exception to these are Voidal Tearing (Which always requires a mage to partake in the creation of one to learn).

 

appropriate tier*

also, what constitutes rare knowledge? I'm actually not sure if this is specified already on other lore pages.

 

[Reece Nolan 996]

 

6 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

1. As stated above, a vast majority of T3 spells require 3-4 emotes, and do not achieve more than what a normal guy could do with a normal weapon in the same span. The few cases where T3 spells vastly exceed this, I have plans to address should this pass

 

Fire Projectile - If John Empire fires three flaming arrows at me in the span of four emotes I'm shitting my pants.

T2: The projectile is the size of a fist. 3 emotes. Every [2] additional projectiles requires 1 extra charge emote, capped at [3] max. Charging any further projectiles raises the manacost to [T3], capped at [7] total projectiles.

 

T3: The projectile is 1 meter in diameter. 4 emotes. Every additional projectile requires 1 extra charge emote, capped at [3] max. Charging any further projectile raises the maancost to [T4], capped at [6] projectiles max. 

 

Flame Wall [Deployable btw] - Self explanatory, John Empire can now deploy a flame wall by pissing on the battlefield where he wants it.

T3: A wall 6 meters in length and 3 meters in height can be created and used to encircle a 1 meter radius. This spell may be sustained for 4 emotes. Every 3 emotes after that expends the same tier of mana cost. 4 emotes to cast.

 

Fire Pillar - okay this one's just a really tall Will-o-wisp alchemy bottle??

T3: A pillar 1 meters long and 1 meters wide can be projected from the ground up to a maximum height of 6 meters. 3 emotes.

 

Firestorm - Dear god, John Empire, a normal guy, just spawned a flaming tornado by spinning his sword around really fast. I don't think I'm leaving this battle alive!

T3: The firestorm is a vortex of fire 2 meters in radius and 6 meters tall which can be sustained for 2 emotes and no longer. 4 emotes.

 

Flame Field - The sheer aura of this man is so intense, it feels like I'm burning up!

T3: Flame Field can cover a 3x3 area at max and can be sustained for 5 emotes. Every 5 emotes after that costs the same as casting the spell again. 4 emotes.

 

Solar Flare - HELP JOHN EMPIRE JUST POINTED AT ME AND SPAWNED THE SUN IN MY LIVING ROOM!

T3: Solar Flare is a stationary orb considered [1] meter in diameter and illuminates a [4] meter radius. Sears targets [2] meters away from it to the first degree. 4 emotes.

 

Turnfire Mantle - Holy shit, John Empire just walked through that dragon's fire like it was nothing???

Mechanics:

Over 3 emotes, a fire evocationist may construct a cloak entirely wrought of voidal flames around themselves that negates and absorbs ONE source of fire (and equivalents), lasting 3 emotes or 15 narrative minutes out of combat. The spell requires a degree of nuance only innate to the mage which exempts them from harm, but prevents them from casting this upon anyone else for the same reason. 

 

Should the spell successfully capture a source of flame from an offensive spell its duration immediately ends, magically empowering the mage and granting a mana-free cast of Ignite in any of its tiers. Continuous streams of flame such as flamethrowers are also only negated for one emote. Additionally, the user will be protected passively from mundane fire - they may walk unharmed through a burning building while the spell is maintained.

 

The protection of this cloak is by no means absolute as it exclusively protects the target from only ONE source of flame, specifically Voidal Flame, Dragonsflame, and alchemically wrought fires. The fiery nature of Turnfire Mantle does not translate to automatic protection, and requires explicit intent and action from the mage. This spell is considered T3 in manacost.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this is the vast majority of ONE voidal magic, and we're already exceeding what a normal person can do off rip. I don't even know what the other magics can do. Keep in mind all of these spells have Armor Heating mechanics, set things on fire and inflict various degrees of burns. There's actually so few cases of Fire Evo having T5 spells you'd actually use it's laughable. I'm not gonna accuse you of making the argument above in bad faith, but I will say the take is objectively incorrect.

[Baccaaa 490]

People complaining about the manapool saying it is disadvantageous for the average mundane warrior since they'd get exhausted faster than a mage have clearly forgotten that mundane exhaustion pool is science fiction nobody gets tired and there are many cases they overstretch their chars durability simply to wait for a mage to run out of mana because one can be measured and the other cannot. Besides showing up to events, casting 2 spells and being told you are exhausted is a bummer and that there being tweaked here is about half the voidstalker's manapool so no yeah that is good. Mage to mage combat should also not be about depleting the mana of the other imo and a better manapool would fix that. I am going to state my personal opinion that I believe that currently voidstalkers have every advantage possible in many fields I do not see how some extra mana for other mages would diminish their FA. Not to state the obvious that the mana has been hard to track and often ignored by many people in response to their opponents lacking a stamina measure.

 

I fw this description more besides with T5 spells it should be tweaked somewhat like 4 exhaustion maybe and T3 spells should NOT be infinite, but cost 1 or 0.5, depending how the total manapool will remain.

 

Also my opponent need not see my spell for it to manifest, it is my line of sight not theirs.

 

I see nothing wrong already existing with voidal auras I have never had anyone complain or see anyone complain about obscured tell signs and such because it simply already isnt allowed to happen! I dont think any change is needed for auras and please do NOT remove hiccups because 'no one uses them' they are a harmless flavor addition thank you.

 

The FA is interesting itd help a bit with the spam I agree

 

Some things I disagree with is the incompatibility with some of the other FA/CA, heralds being a good example of this as I do not see it a necessary change

 

Regardless of this all +1

[Turbo_Dog 3567]

On 2/24/2026 at 4:04 AM, King_Kunuk said:

The only peak thing about this entire lore is it looks to let musin have void magic, which is cool. I like the funny rat people.