Quantifiable Mana [Lore addition/Amendment?]

[Apotolofo 2204]

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED TO YOU?? 

 

*mage spams spells and never seems to run out of mana, or a voidstalker spams 20 T5 spells, but there isn't a real in lore statement of how many times you can casts spells so they just say they have unlimited mana?* 

 

Well it's happened to me! And I'm sure I've accidentally powergamed it many times before because it is just not written anywhere, except vaguely and sort of confusingly in translocation lore! 

 

The last time someone submitted something like this (hi @BakedPotato) it got denied, saying that STs wanted to flesh it out on their own! But that was in 2024! 

 

So here we go again, and here is my proposed idea! 

 

____________________________________________________________

Amount of Mana Points per tier of MAGE: 

T5 - 100 MP
T4 - 75 MP

T3 - 50 MP

T2 - 25 MP

T1 - 10 MP

____________________________________________________________

 

This would scale to the mage's HIGHEST TIER of any of their magics! If they are T5 in Fire evocation, but T1 in Water evo- because they are still a T5 mage in SOMETHING, they would be still be able to cast 20 T1 spells in Water evo. WHY? So we don't have a separate mana pool for every single evocation, that would be a headache! In this, a T5 Fire mage would have enough MANA to cast T1 water spells, but not enough SKILL in the element to cast higher tier spells! 

 

This is scaled so that at whatever tier mage you are at, you would be able to cast at a maximum 2-3 of your HIGHEST LEVEL spells.  

 

As well, though it's up for debate, a T5 VOIDSTALKER would have 200 MP available, though 150 MP would make sense as well. With this, however, I would suggest that the Arcane Replenishment ability in voidstalking to use Mana Points rather than 3 free uses. The ability itself does not state what tier of spell a voidstalker can replenish, meaning that they could replenish 3 whole T5 spells for free! Meaning that according to this guideline, voidstalkers would have AT LEAST 250 mana points! But I find that a bit ridiculous, personally. 

 

Arcane Scions would be stopped at 50 MP, same as a T3 mage. 

 

____________________________________________________________

Amount of Mana Points per tier of SPELL: 
T5 - 50 MP (2 casts)
T4 - 25 MP (4 casts)
T3 - 15 MP (6 casts)
T2 - 10 MP (10 casts)
T1 - 5 MP (20 casts)

____________________________________________________________

 

The amount of casts is approximate for some of these, but the idea remains! Now obviously, this does not directly scale with translocation, the ONLY magic that states how many times a spell can be cast (not including voidal feat lore). I would propose (and this will nerf translo, so I'm sorry to you translocationists) that each shift be scaled to their respective Tier Level (16 block shift would be considered a T5 spell, and subsequently 50 MP). According to translocation lore, a T5 mage would currently be able to cast a T5 level shift 7 times, which according to this chart would make them have 350 Mana Points!

 

Now for the final question, where would this lore be placed? I dunno, techlock? Connection Lore? This is currently the only lore regarding the mana pool. And its confusing! Why should a T5 mage be only able to cast 1-2 T4 spells. . . when they have access to T5 spells? That seems a little silly to me. This implies that after 1 T5 spell, a T5 mage would possibly PK? 

 

As well, the distance thing is NEVER rped, as it's confusing and I'm not sure how we're supposed to scale that anyways. . . Considering 75% of spells don't actually state a max distance! Where in the connection lore, the only reference made is to line of sight. So if you can see across the map with distant horizons, congrats! You can cast there! (This isn't even on topic to the Mana Points, sorry) I would propose that all spells have a base range of 16 blocks, 32 with an arcane focus! And if you REALLY need it to go further, you could DOUBLE the distance by adding, lets say, half the existing mana points to the original spell, rounding down. So a double distance T4 spell would be 25 + 12 MP. Awkward, but doable. You might end up at the end of combat having 4 mana points left, but that's alright in my opinion. 

 

____________________________________________________________

 

ALTERNATIVELY:

 

1 EMOTE of charging = 5 MP.

 

This number is also totally up for debate. It could be 10! But I think that being able to only do 10 rounds of combat casting would be kinda sucky. Granted, most CRPs don't tend to go much longer than that, but still! 

 

Would the "cast" and "connect" emotes cost Mana Points? I'd say that connection does NOT take Mana Points, but casting does. But would this count as well for SUSTAINING spells, such as water whip? I'd say no, because water whip in the spell itself says how long it lasts, and other spells say that to sustain it would take the same amount of mana as casting it again. 

____________________________________________________________

 

 

That's it, and a lot of this is up for debate so please offer your suggestions! I was hit by a wave of "genius" and wanted to get this out quickly. Let me know what you guys think, please drop any concerns and stuff like that. 

 

[Frisket 4537]

It was 2024….. will they deny this one too and release it after GTA6?

[Apotolofo 2204]

Someone brought up a super good point to me 

 

"If mages have points, so should humans!" 

 

Expect an addition or part two about ENERGY POINTS! 

 

(Short example would be like- daggers/small weapons take 5 energy points. Greatswords take 25. Heavy armor adds 10 EP to each swing. etc) 

[usercultist 148]

holy shit please please please please please please please please please please please

 

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

2 minutes ago, Apotolofo said:

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED TO YOU?? 

 

*mage spams spells and never seems to run out of mana, or a voidstalker spams 20 T5 spells, but there isn't a real in lore statement of how many times you can casts spells so they just say they have unlimited mana?* 

 

Well it's happened to me! And I'm sure I've accidentally powergamed it many times before because it is just not written anywhere, except vaguely and sort of confusingly in translocation lore! 

 

The last time someone submitted something like this (hi @BakedPotato) it got denied, saying that STs wanted to flesh it out on their own! But that was in 2024! 

 

So here we go again, and here is my proposed idea! 

 

____________________________________________________________

Amount of Mana Points per tier of MAGE: 

T5 - 100 MP
T4 - 75 MP

T3 - 50 MP

T2 - 25 MP

T1 - 10 MP

____________________________________________________________

 

This would scale to the mage's HIGHEST TIER of any of their magics! If they are T5 in Fire evocation, but T1 in Water evo- because they are still a T5 mage in SOMETHING, they would be still be able to cast 20 T1 spells in Water evo. WHY? So we don't have a separate mana pool for every single evocation, that would be a headache! In this, a T5 Fire mage would have enough MANA to cast T1 water spells, but not enough SKILL in the element to cast higher tier spells! 

 

This is scaled so that at whatever tier mage you are at, you would be able to cast at a maximum 2-3 of your HIGHEST LEVEL spells.  

 

As well, though it's up for debate, a T5 VOIDSTALKER would have 200 MP available, though 150 MP would make sense as well. With this, however, I would suggest that the Arcane Replenishment ability in voidstalking to use Mana Points rather than 3 free uses. The ability itself does not state what tier of spell a voidstalker can replenish, meaning that they could replenish 3 whole T5 spells for free! Meaning that according to that guideline, voidstalkers would have AT LEAST 250 mana points! But I find that a bit ridiculous, personally. 

 

Arcane Scions would be stopped at 50 MP, same as a T3 mage. 

 

____________________________________________________________

Amount of Mana Points per tier of SPELL: 
T5 - 50 MP (2 casts)
T4 - 25 MP (4 casts)
T3 - 15 MP (6 casts)
T2 - 10 MP (10 casts)
T1 - 5 MP (20 casts)

____________________________________________________________

 

The amount of casts is approximate for some of these, but the idea remains! Now obviously, this does not directly scale with translocation, the ONLY magic that states how many times a spell can be cast (not including voidal feat lore). I would propose (and this will nerf translo, so I'm sorry to you translocationists) that each shift be scaled to their respective Tier Level (16 block shift would be considered a T5 spell, and subsequently 50 MP). According to translocation lore, a T5 mage would currently be able to cast a T5 level shift 7 times, which according to this chart would make them have 350 Mana Points!

 

Now for the final question, where would this lore be placed? I dunno, techlock? Connection Lore? This is currently the only lore regarding the mana pool. And its confusing! Why should a T5 mage be only able to cast 1-2 T4 spells. . . when they have access to T5 spells? That seems a little silly to me. This implies that after 1 T5 spell, a T5 mage would possibly PK? 

 

As well, the distance thing is NEVER rped, as it's confusing and I'm not sure how we're supposed to scale that anyways. . . Considering 75% of spells don't actually state a max distance! Where in the connection lore, the only reference made is to line of sight. So if you can see across the map with distant horizons, congrats! You can cast there! (This isn't even on topic to the Mana Points, sorry) I would propose that all spells have a base range of 16 blocks, 32 with an arcane focus! And if you REALLY need it to go further, you could DOUBLE the distance by adding, lets say, half the existing mana points to the original spell, rounding down. So a double distance T4 spell would be 25 + 12 MP. Awkward, but doable. You might end up at the end of combat having 4 mana points left, but that's alright in my opinion. 

 

 

That's it, and a lot of this is up for debate so please offer your suggestions! I was hit by a wave of "genius" and wanted to get this out quickly. Let me know what you guys think, please drop any concerns and stuff like that. 

 

eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

No other magic is so purely casting as void is. I dislike the idea that a T5 mage needs to struggle with spellcasting [6 T3 spells? seriosuly? I get 6 slightly better (or worse) longbow shots when mundane man gets infinite arrows?] which is their bread and butter vs a human will crashout if you suggest they might be tired.

 

I tackled this issue in my connection rewrite via exhaustion being a threshold that is reached via sustained casting and can be mitigated by casting lower tiered spells relative to your current tier or by taking some emotes to naturally recover. I dislike the idea of straight mana-pointing mages. Likewise, how long does it take to recover them? What is a spell is half off and rounds into a decimal? This feels like a half-answer at best and I don't think its a good idea to try and jerryrig a bad bakedpotato idea at that

[Silly Zero 93]

3 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

No other magic is so purely casting as void is. I dislike the idea that a T5 mage needs to struggle with spellcasting [6 T3 spells? seriosuly? I get 6 slightly better (or worse) longbow shots when mundane man gets infinite arrows?] which is their bread and butter vs a human will crashout if you suggest they might be tired.

 

I tackled this issue in my connection rewrite via exhaustion being a threshold that is reached via sustained casting and can be mitigated by casting lower tiered spells relative to your current tier or by taking some emotes to naturally recover. I dislike the idea of straight mana-pointing mages. Likewise, how long does it take to recover them? What is a spell is half off and rounds into a decimal? This feels like a half-answer at best and I don't think its a good idea to try and jerryrig a bad bakedpotato idea at that

[Apotolofo 2204]

6 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

No other magic is so purely casting as void is. I dislike the idea that a T5 mage needs to struggle with spellcasting [6 T3 spells? seriosuly? I get 6 slightly better (or worse) longbow shots when mundane man gets infinite arrows?] which is their bread and butter vs a human will crashout if you suggest they might be tired.

 

I tackled this issue in my connection rewrite via exhaustion being a threshold that is reached via sustained casting and can be mitigated by casting lower tiered spells relative to your current tier or by taking some emotes to naturally recover. I dislike the idea of straight mana-pointing mages. Likewise, how long does it take to recover them? What is a spell is half off and rounds into a decimal? This feels like a half-answer at best and I don't think its a good idea to try and jerryrig a bad bakedpotato idea at that

 

if you read my comment above you'd see that i'm also considering an equivalent for non casters :D

Also damn bakedpotato catching strays that's mean! 

And as for when they recover them, every "long rest" like in DND so I'd say like a narrative day. What do you suggest? Give me an actual suggestion not just "i don't like it" that's why I made this post, to get ideas from other people. What do YOU think would make it better? 

[BakedPotato 1019]

9 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I tackled this issue in my connection rewrite via exhaustion being a threshold that is reached via sustained casting and can be mitigated by casting lower tiered spells relative to your current tier or by taking some emotes to naturally recover. I dislike the idea of straight mana-pointing mages. Likewise, how long does it take to recover them? What is a spell is half off and rounds into a decimal? This feels like a half-answer at best and I don't think its a good idea to try and jerryrig a bad bakedpotato idea at that

ok

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

Just now, Apotolofo said:

 

if you read my comment above you'd see that i'm also considering an equivalent for non casters :D

Also damn bakedpotato catching strays that's mean! 

And as for when they recover them, every "long rest" like in DND so I'd say like a narrative day. What do you suggest? Give me an actual suggestion not just "i don't like it" that's why I made this post, to get ideas from other people. What do YOU think would make it better? 

There is no real reason to give mages a kneecap like naztherak have. Breaking someone else's kneecap because you broke your own intentionally doesn't make it better, and proposing a point-exhaustion system for mundanes would likely require admin approval and never pass moderation/LT because it would introduce a solidified meta to CRP and further the HEMAmaxxing of CRP

 

"Long Rests" do not exist in LoTC - the standard is 12 OOC hours or 1 OOC day and you should specify which. 

 

we'll suffer with all 5 pixels of this image but in general, casting doesn't need a hard X theoretical spells per day. All a mage can do is cast, and they're the template for all other half-casters to use a mana-point or X uses per day thing because they opt out of most of the detriments of being a caster mage like voidal mages. Likewise, no matter what passes, a vast majority of spells and feats (and other lore like tears and focuses) will need revising to adjust for a more concrete system. Expulsion is a T2 spell with mana cost effectively surpassing 2 T5 spells, meanwhile a T2 water projectile is quite literally an annoyance more than it is effective. 

[Reece Nolan 996]

It's not even a full submission and it's still more balanced and thought out than the last post that tried to tackle this, which was a voidal connection rewrite.

[The Vulgate Cycle 577]

18 minutes ago, Apotolofo said:

Someone brought up a super good point to me 

 

"If mages have points, so should humans!" 

 

Expect an addition or part two about ENERGY POINTS! 

 

(Short example would be like- daggers/small weapons take 5 energy points. Greatswords take 25. Heavy armor adds 10 EP to each swing. etc) 

Off rip Im not a huge fan of this. 

For magic users, who have crazy spells that do crazy powerful things, it makes sense to find some way to quantify how much they can do per combat encounter. 

For purely mundane fighters and warriors, I am less inclined to have something like this purely because there are already more ready means of stopping them if you are clever or smart enough about it. I worry that having all combat like this would devolve into playing a numbers game with how many points you can use just to continue the combat. 

Dont get me wrong, there SHOULD be a way to make CRP more fun. But I think what CRP is really lacking is a definitive way of determining who's attack / defense won out in a combat definitively. 

Idk Im willing to be proven wrong if something more comprehensive appears

 

 

29 minutes ago, Apotolofo said:

Amount of Mana Points per tier of SPELL: 
T5 - 50 MP (2 casts)
T4 - 25 MP (4 casts)
T3 - 15 MP (6 casts)
T2 - 10 MP (10 casts)
T1 - 5 MP (20 casts)

As for this Ill let someone more into the magic scene comment on this more thoroughly but as a non-voidal peon, this doesnt look bad to me

[Apotolofo 2204]

2 minutes ago, The Vulgate Cycle said:

I worry that having all combat like this would devolve into playing a numbers game with how many points you can use just to continue the combat. 

 

That's a very valid concern, and I see the opposite concern with mages as well. "If non-magic fighters can have unlimited stamina, why do we?" ykwim?

 

So what i propose isn't perfect, if anything this should actually be in the discussion section NOT a lore addition (sorry sts, can someone move it?) 

 

But I think that something should be done and this is my idea for it! 

[Cheese 8876]

21 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

No other magic is so purely casting as void is. I dislike the idea that a T5 mage needs to struggle with spellcasting [6 T3 spells? seriosuly? I get 6 slightly better (or worse) longbow shots when mundane man gets infinite arrows?] which is their bread and butter vs a human will crashout if you suggest they might be tired.

 

I tackled this issue in my connection rewrite via exhaustion being a threshold that is reached via sustained casting and can be mitigated by casting lower tiered spells relative to your current tier or by taking some emotes to naturally recover. I dislike the idea of straight mana-pointing mages. Likewise, how long does it take to recover them? What is a spell is half off and rounds into a decimal? This feels like a half-answer at best and I don't think its a good idea to try and jerryrig a bad bakedpotato idea at that

remember that amendment where you shouldn’t be allowed to post any amendments until 2027

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

5 minutes ago, Apotolofo said:

 

That's a very valid concern, and I see the opposite concern with mages as well. "If non-magic fighters can have unlimited stamina, why do we?" ykwim?

 

So what i propose isn't perfect, if anything this should actually be in the discussion section NOT a lore addition (sorry sts, can someone move it?) 

 

But I think that something should be done and this is my idea for it! 

It's just missing a lot, and in hindsight it excessively buffs voidstalkers.
A vast majority of combat spells that do something mechanically are at T3, with fire evo having a projectile that does burn at T2. Everyone else gets 6 barely useful spells per 12 hours/1 day, while voidstalkers get more.

 

I don't know if that's intentional, but this doesn't seem like it fixes the issue of overcasting, it just makes mages unable to actually do anything. 

[Apotolofo 2204]

19 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

"Long Rests" do not exist in LoTC - the standard is 12 OOC hours or 1 OOC day and you should specify which. 

 

I'm not entirely against the idea that T1-T3 spells become essentially "free" spells but I think that has problems on its own. 

With that in mind (unless you decided to have translo be its own thing idk i didnt read it sorry) a mage can spam T3 translo shifts over and over with no drawbacks. Personally, I don't think it makes sense for spells to be free. So I guess I am mostly opposed to that idea unfortunately, but I can see how T1 spells could be free? I just think that things are so vague already we need some sort of number, but if you just don't agree that's fine too. 

 

The idea of certain spells creating a certain amount of exhaustion makes sense too, but is that not... also a number? Of spells you can cast? 

 

6 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

It's just missing a lot, and in hindsight it excessively buffs voidstalkers.
A vast majority of combat spells that do something mechanically are at T3, with fire evo having a projectile that does burn at T2. Everyone else gets 6 barely useful spells per 12 hours/1 day, while voidstalkers get more.

 

I don't know if that's intentional, but this doesn't seem like it fixes the issue of overcasting, it just makes mages unable to actually do anything. 

 

Ok, so again, what do you suggest? 150 MP for voidstalkers? T3 spells be less of a cost? The recharge be less than 12 hours? Like i said above, if you just don't like it, that's fine too. But I am looking for ideas! 

 

(edited because i sounded a little passive aggressive oopsies)