Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[Romulo 7]

This is what I believe in. Deism.

I beleive there is a god or higher being, that created the world. But evolution did occur. In the bible it says 7 days because when the bible was first being read people back then, they could not understand the concept of a huge number like millions or billions. So lets says instead of 7 days god created the world in 7 million. Slowly as it progressed. The bad is thing the 7 days stuck. Also I hate the thought of religion running a country or nation. Every country should be ran by the people, not a religion. For example if a women wants to get an abortion it is her body, and she has the right to do whatever she wants with it. if someone is a homesexual, let them be one. Let them marry their love. Who are we to say that they can't get married because it is in a book? (even though it never says it in that in a way that condemns homosexuality.) No one has a say on someones personal life.

[Judoc 3]

Points have been made about a connection between religion and morals. This quote from the stanford encyclopedia of philosophy shares Saint Thomas Aquinas's view of the subject.

"Detaching Aquinas' philosophy from his theology is compatible with distinctions he firmly delineates at the beginning of his two mature theological syntheses, the Summa contra Gentiles and the Summa Theologiae. (i) There are truths, he says, which are accessible to natural reason, that is, to ordinary experience (including the specialized observations of natural scientists), insight, and reflection; and these include practical truths about good and evil, right and wrong. (ii) Many of those truths of natural reason are confirmed, and even clarified, by divine revelation, that is, the propositions communicated directly or inferentially in the life and works of Christ, as transmitted by his immediate followers and prepared for in the Jewish scriptures accepted by those followers as revelatory. (iii) Some of the truths divinely revealed could not have been discovered by natural, philosophical reason, even though, once accepted, their content and significance can be illuminated by the philosophically ordered reflection which he calls theology.

The philosophical positions in ethics and politics (including law) that are explored in this article belong to categories (i) and (ii). The moral and political norms stated, for example, in the biblical Decalogue are, in Aquinas' view, all knowable independently of that revelation, which confirms and perhaps clarifies them. But the propositions that he holds about what the true last end or ultimate destiny of human beings actually is belong to category (iii) and cannot be affirmed on any philosophical basis, even though philosophy, he thinks, can demonstrate that they are neither incoherent nor contrary to any proposition which philosophy shows must be affirmed."

[Judoc 3]

By my interpreatation, he basically says human beings are smart enough to figure out their own morals, though he believed god kind of checked to make sure they were getting it right. He believed true biblical revelation of morals only existed when it mentioned how morals affected the Christian afterilife.

[Sentlit 108]

Starting this topic made me think of people yelling "YOURSTUPIDANDYOUKNOWNOTHINGBECAUSEEVOLUTIONISTHEBEST" and "YOURSTUPIDANDYOUKNOWNOTHINGBECAUSECREATIONISMISTHEBEST". Well,I'm suprised there hasn't been much yelling as I thought. Well done. *claps* Now to my thoughts.

In order for evolution to exist, it requires "millions and billions of years". Frankly, the universe isn't that old to me. I would say that earth is no more than a few thousand years old.. why? Because it is. Before you yell at me, please read on.

Carbon dating. Carbon dating is probably one of the most well-known forms or dating there is. Unfortunately, it's the only one most people have heard of. Let me tell you, there are many more forms of dating that are much more accurate. Why is carbon dating inaccurate? Because there is tons of guessing involved. For those that don't know, carbon dating involves seeing how old things are by looking at the half-lives of substances the break down after something dies, in this case carbon. Scientists look at all the C16s and the C8s and say, wow this thing is old! The problem is that most of the C16s already broke down to C8s and now the scientists must guess how many C16s there were originally. Perhaps there were C8s to begin with? They don't know. Carbon dating says 'millions of years' and the other techniques say 'a few thousand years'.

Since millions of years is what evolution is based off of, and since millions of years didn't happen, I must draw a conclusion that evolution didn't happen. Not that it couldn't have happened, but that it didn't.

Now let's look at creationism. It speaks of an all powerful deity (in most cases) that created the universe and everything in it. People say "We can't see this God you speak of!". Well, in the past we haven't seen lots of things. People used to think that the earth is flat, but it isn't. It's been proven to be quite round. In the Bible, nothing in it says that the earth is flat or everything revolves around us. Just because some figure poorly represents his faith, doesn't make it all false.

Let's say a priest says: "Hey guys, the earth is flat." Well, his holy book doesn't say the earth is flat, he does. Therefore, you can't make assumptions like saying "the bible says the earth is flat" when a priest says it is. There goes most peoples' argument. For those who have more, I'll try to explain other things as well.

People say "we've never seen nor detected God", I agree with them. We have not been able to detect God's physical existence as of yet, IF he does have a physical form. There are several 'existences' as I call it. There is physical existence, and metaphysical existence. Everything we see is bound by physical properties, including time and all of that other good stuff. But, perhaps there was a metaphysical realm? One unreachable by physical deeds but only reachable by metaphysical intervention. A being outside of time and 'physical' existence is quite possible. If people say "we can't see deities", well that's true. But is everything not visible false? Certainly not! We have reached many times in history where we thought we knew everything, but that has been proven untrue time and time again! Right when we thought we could invent no more, BAM electricity! We reached the same conclusion right before the computers and the internet. Perhaps next week scientists will discover a completely new substance that is found in everything, but was undetectable before. It almost blows our minds to think of what 'doesn't exist yet'. A simple example is 'Discovering a new color'. It's mind blowing, but not entirely impossible. (Ik the color example was bad, but you know what I mean.) The realm of the metaphysical might not be detectable now, but who knows?

You ask for physical evidence, but one cannot find direct physical evidence for things outside of matter and time. There is much more to argue about, but here is a slice of it, enjoy~

P.S. If you want to pm me about what I find to be true, I'd be happy to talk about it.

P.P.S. I realize some information I have may be misread or 'under-proven'. Please don't get too angry at me, I wrote this off of the top of my head. XP

[Jistuma 1996]

Starting this topic made me think of people yelling "YOURSTUPIDANDYOUKNOWNOTHINGBECAUSEEVOLUTIONISTHEBEST" and "YOURSTUPIDANDYOUKNOWNOTHINGBECAUSECREATIONISMISTHEBEST". Well,I'm suprised there hasn't been much yelling as I thought. Well done. *claps* Now to my thoughts.

In order for evolution to exist, it requires "millions and billions of years". Frankly, the universe isn't that old to me. I would say that earth is no more than a few thousand years old.. why? Because it is. Before you yell at me, please read on.

Carbon dating. Carbon dating is probably one of the most well-known forms or dating there is. Unfortunately, it's the only one most people have heard of. Let me tell you, there are many more forms of dating that are much more accurate. Why is carbon dating inaccurate? Because there is tons of guessing involved. For those that don't know, carbon dating involves seeing how old things are by looking at the half-lives of substances the break down after something dies, in this case carbon. Scientists look at all the C16s and the C8s and say, wow this thing is old! The problem is that most of the C16s already broke down to C8s and now the scientists must guess how many C16s there were originally. Perhaps there were C8s to begin with? They don't know. Carbon dating says 'millions of years' and the other techniques say 'a few thousand years'.

Since millions of years is what evolution is based off of, and since millions of years didn't happen, I must draw a conclusion that evolution didn't happen. Not that it couldn't have happened, but that it didn't.

Now let's look at creationism. It speaks of an all powerful deity (in most cases) that created the universe and everything in it. People say "We can't see this God you speak of!". Well, in the past we haven't seen lots of things. People used to think that the earth is flat, but it isn't. It's been proven to be quite round. In the Bible, nothing in it says that the earth is flat or everything revolves around us. Just because some figure poorly represents his faith, doesn't make it all false.

Let's say a priest says: "Hey guys, the earth is flat." Well, his holy book doesn't say the earth is flat, he does. Therefore, you can't make assumptions like saying "the bible says the earth is flat" when a priest says it is. There goes most peoples' argument. For those who have more, I'll try to explain other things as well.

People say "we've never seen nor detected God", I agree with them. We have not been able to detect God's physical existence as of yet, IF he does have a physical form. There are several 'existences' as I call it. There is physical existence, and metaphysical existence. Everything we see is bound by physical properties, including time and all of that other good stuff. But, perhaps there was a metaphysical realm? One unreachable by physical deeds but only reachable by metaphysical intervention. A being outside of time and 'physical' existence is quite possible. If people say "we can't see deities", well that's true. But is everything not visible false? Certainly not! We have reached many times in history where we thought we knew everything, but that has been proven untrue time and time again! Right when we thought we could invent no more, BAM electricity! We reached the same conclusion right before the computers and the internet. Perhaps next week scientists will discover a completely new substance that is found in everything, but was undetectable before. It almost blows our minds to think of what 'doesn't exist yet'. A simple example is 'Discovering a new color'. It's mind blowing, but not entirely impossible. (Ik the color example was bad, but you know what I mean.) The realm of the metaphysical might not be detectable now, but who knows?

You ask for physical evidence, but one cannot find direct physical evidence for things outside of matter and time. There is much more to argue about, but here is a slice of it, enjoy~

P.S. If you want to pm me about what I find to be true, I'd be happy to talk about it.

P.P.S. I realize some information I have may be misread or 'under-proven'. Please don't get too angry at me, I wrote this off of the top of my head. XP

See these videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDB23537556D7AADB

Either way..

Carbon dating... -

That video explains it better than I do. Other words... It works, it has been tested. There are other ways of knowing the age, those work as well, do they say thousants? no they say a lot more than what carbon dating can say.

Oh, and sorry if the videos mock creationism, I just like the way he gives out facts, and states exacly where he got the facts.

[Space 2335]

YOURSTUPIDANDIKNOWEVERYTHINGCAUSEEVOLUTIONISTHEBEST!

I am going to say my favourite phrase. Argument from ignorance.

'There's a earth. There's a universe. Well a invisible guy who is omnipotent obviously created everything.

No, theres no merit to that claim. The only 'evidence' you can make is logical (Although, I really have never seen a 'logical' point about creationism that can't be shot down).

'There's a very old Earth, it contains life like no other planet that revolves around our star, there's relationships between species, there are species that gap between to species, so maybe it's evolution.' There ya go.

[Wavejammers 328]

As I asked Dilara a while ago.

Why do we even care? Why do we want to know why we are, why should we care? We are here on earth.

I'm here.

Here I stay.

Here I live.

Here I die.

[~TheDerpyBeagle~ 63]

Evolution, nuff said.

[Jistuma 1996]

As I asked Dilara a while ago.

Why do we even care? Why do we want to know why we are, why should we care? We are here on earth.

I'm here.

Here I stay.

Here I live.

Here I die.

We care because the information that it gives us can make you stay alive for longer ^_^

[Wavejammers 328]

We care because the information that it gives us can make you stay alive for longer ^_^

How?

[danic 352]

As I asked Dilara a while ago.

Why do we even care? Why do we want to know why we are, why should we care? We are here on earth.

I'm here.

Here I stay.

Here I live.

Here I die.

Why? Because it is human nature to be curious of our surroundings. Our life's goal is to seek out the information of our past, to discover untold mysterious about our universe.

To say you honestly do not care would be a fabricated lie. Ever person thinks about it millions of times; Who are we? Why are we here? Why does that happen but not this?

Humanity's internal life goal is to answer these questions that have plagued us for our entire existence. Some of humanity turn to the knowledge and stories held within religious texts. Others turn to the continuation of Science and factual discovery.

Everyone wants to know the answers, how the find those answers is up to them.

[Jistuma 1996]

How?

Example are virus, they are subjective to evolution like any other organism. But virus have a great rate of reproduction, in a space of months, they can change greatly.

Now for the virus point of view, this is great, they are staying alive, for the humans point of view, this is awful, because they are harder and harder to kill.

So, if we understand that they will change, and we understand the proccess and the conditions that they will change, we can stop it, or make new things to stop it once again. This will, most likely, make you, or someone close to you, longer life. This is already done, and that knowledge used to create better medicine.

Evolution theory, is the explanation to the facts that prove that organisms evolve. It's not 100% acurate, as is nothing is science, yet, it's the better explaination we have that can help us. Same way that gravity is a theory, it's the explanation we have for the fact that objects are atracted to each other. Is it 100% true? No, we are always finding new things about it, we don't even know why it exists yet, but we know it exists, and the theory is there to state how it works.

Again, it's proven fact that organisms evolve, the theory only explains how it happens.

[danic 352]

Example are virus, they are subjective to evolution like any other organism. But virus have a great rate of reproduction, in a space of months, they can change greatly.

Now for the virus point of view, this is great, they are staying alive, for the humans point of view, this is awful, because they are harder and harder to kill.

So, if we understand that they will change, and we understand the proccess and the conditions that they will change, we can stop it, or make new things to stop it once again. This will, most likely, make you, or someone close to you, longer life. This is already done, and that knowledge used to create better medicine.

Evolution theory, is the explanation to the facts that prove that organisms evolve. It's not 100% acurate, as is nothing is science, yet, it's the better explaination we have that can help us. Same way that gravity is a theory, it's the explanation we have for the fact that objects are atracted to each other. Is it 100% true? No, we are always finding new things about it, we don't even know why it exists yet, but we know it exists, and the theory is there to state how it works.

Again, it's proven fact that organisms evolve, the theory only explains how it happens.

To be scientifically correct; Virus' are not living organisms.

[Samson Option 9652]

If you want to 'last longer', throw yourself into a cryogenic vat and stop yapping. :3

[Bawd 222]

Occam's Razor dictates that Creationists should prove their point and Evolution is a more viable theory.

I'm going to bring up the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I don't mean this in any offensive way, however the argument has good points.

The Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU) is the goddess of a parody religion used to satirize theistic beliefs, taking the form of a unicorn that is paradoxically both invisible and pink. She is a rhetorical illustration used by atheists and other religious skeptics as a contemporary version of Russell's teapot, sometimes mentioned in conjunction with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The IPU is used to argue that supernatural beliefs are arbitrary by, for example, replacing the word God in any theistic statement with Invisible Pink Unicorn. The mutually exclusive attributes of pinkness and invisibility, coupled with the inability to disprove the IPU's existence, satirize properties that some theists attribute to a theistic deity.

Take that quote and think about it for a while.

-----

In my eyes, with the fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed and so forth, at one stage the universe was much smaller, a tiny pin-point that contained all of the matter and antimatter we know today. As some of you may know, when matter and antimatter collide, both explode and are obliterated, releasing high-energy photons (gamma rays). Due to this reaction, the universe expands, matter is drawn into place, planets and stars form, die, reform, new ones form, and so forth.