[Ooc] High Elves And Magic

[Sporadic 2844]

Curious aspect, this. I'd like to get ample discussion going on the subject, though, so let me set apart some things for you.

Physical vs. Arcane combat

The High Elves are meant to be bad at physical combat, meaning they are handicapped in all the four combat skills. They are too lanky to be good bowmen like their Wood Elven brothers. They are too tall, meaning vital spots like knees and inner legs are difficult to protect, and armor covering their increased surface becomes heavier. They are also too thin, meaning they have unstable gravitational points and little muscle mass to throw around. Their ONLY advantage is their reach, for their longer arms can mark off an area and strike without being stricken. This hardly protects against arrows, however.

Lorewise, though, High Elves were always magically apt. The lore team has accounted for this by means of the Golden Pools, which awakened increased magical potency in the High Elves. None of them are born master mages, of course, but one might agree they can process through their teachings a bit faster than their fellows. Their long lifespans will also allow them to devote enough time to studies of magic, which is said to take a long time indeed.

Playing the mage.

Of course, you can state to be as magically apt as you want, but in most hostile encounters this will not help you. In MC combat mechanics it is all meaningless, and one will resort to saying their 'magic' boosts their combat skills to be equal to everyone else. Not very fun, but it's the solution we tend to go with for now.

Understand that even with all the lore in the world, we cannot go around flaunting we are better mages than thy. It will be met with very reasonable discontent from every other race: We'd all like to be badass spellcasters, which means the only reasonable compromise is that nobody is.

Unlocking their potential:

I am a big fan of cooperating with the Mage Guild. I think it is important that people synchronize the lore for consistency reasons. ICly, there are plenty of reasons not to go about it this way, but OOC we should be fair to prevent PG and increase cooperation.

Problems with the Mage guild include their general abandonment of the tower we built for them (I tried to get them to use it more... unsuccessfully), the fact that anyone they teach cannot be used to defend the city in wartime and the fact that their recruitment process will mean the inclusion of very little Haelun'or High Elves indeed (MG does not have talent scouts in our area)

We could finally unlock our okarir'tayna position and create a Mage system entirely our own, but this will take a lot of effort and will need GM approval.

Claiming the magic plugin:

The Magic plugin that is to be released... eventually... would change our combat setups drastically. Though the admins decided there shall be no actual combat spells, we would consider having powerful mages backing up strike forces in order to boost their prowess. In this case, we'd have actual inquisitors instead of just 'boosts' when MC mechanics kick in, which will add a delightful tactical element. On the whole, however, I feel that even among HE, not each one of us should be a master mage.

We could agree that the High Elves depend on just a tiny amount of Arcane Masters for defense, who use mostly protective wards to keep people away, but this will again not save us from the 'racist-hunters' that like PvP. We will still require everyday guards with PvP skills because of a limitation. Solutions to this will be appreciated.

Overall, I will still feel selfish claiming that we deserve a bigger part of the magic plugin than anyone else, and even though we have slight justification for it nobody will buy it. Everyone will wish for magic, so we shall be expected to grind it to lvl 275 same as everyone else. What I am more concerned about is finding a good lore compromise as soon as this plugin kicks in: Just grinding or resetting skills does not cut it for us.

Alchemy:

We could just nag admins and ask to be allowed alchemy. Justification for this would be the High Elves high boost to herblore in the old skill system, which would mostly translate to the alchemy set in current settings. This again will require a very fiesty person who is not afraid to make big requests. However, more important is how we'd balance it; how it would be RP'd and by who, and how the Golden Pools would play into it.

[Neutonic 17]

Well i do agree that we need magic or something like that, however think how many people will want to suddenly reroll as a high elf just for improved magic.

[Blundermore 2741]

As much as I see your concern of being able to have higher magical skills simply because you are a certain race, it would seem a bit unfair to say that because you have a certain name plate or subrace you should just be allowed to skip the line in front of everyone else. I don't think magical apt-ness is the way to resolve this problem. Perhaps the way to solve it is that it takes the same amount of time to learn magic as any other race, difference being though that the high elves have more students wishing to atain magic.

What you also have to realise is that not everyone's characters are fit to learn magic simply because of their IC mindset. From what I have seen, many of the high elves are rash, quick to act, unwilling to learn new things and think more highly of themselves than others. Whilst in order to learn magic, you need patience, time, take everything as slow as it needs to be to understand it and to be open to new ideas.

Basically meaning, that even if you did have a magical apt-ness, most high elves think in a way that is nowhere near suitable to attaining magic.

[Sagwort 833]

For rp reasons the Mages Guild does tend to lean towards high elves when it comes to recruiting. Of course what I am about say is in no way meant to be an insult to those who aren’t high elves, but the High Elves have a number of talented rpers. Plus they value science which the Mages Guild adores.

[Sporadic 2844]

As much as I see your concern of being able to have higher magical skills simply because you are a certain race, it would seem a bit unfair to say that because you have a certain name plate or subrace you should just be allowed to skip the line in front of everyone else. I don't think magical apt-ness is the way to resolve this problem. Perhaps the way to solve it is that it takes the same amount of time to learn magic as any other race, difference being though that the high elves have more students wishing to atain magic.

You preach to the choir. I agree completely, and as stated before I don't think High Elves should get a baked-in advantage in this area (unless of course other races get an advantage of equal value in other areas; but reinstating racial traits is another discussion entirely). However, the fact that the lore states that we like to be magically apt should steer us towards the art in an entirely RP manner, regardless of the mechanics that are provided to the players.

Things like Wihuns and Blood Mages would then be things that catch their attention quicker than other instances. The High Elves would also seek cooperation with most instances of Magic, such as Mage Guilds and Shades (who are now gone), trying to master or even suppress them in an RP sense.

What you also have to realise is that not everyone's characters are fit to learn magic simply because of their IC mindset. From what I have seen, many of the high elves are rash, quick to act, unwilling to learn new things and think more highly of themselves than others. Whilst in order to learn magic, you need patience, time, take everything as slow as it needs to be to understand it and to be open to new ideas.

Basically meaning, that even if you did have a magical apt-ness, most high elves think in a way that is nowhere near suitable to attaining magic.

Well, I don't recognize the HE in the IC generalization you just made, but if 'open to new ideas' would mean 'free of bias' I would like to open that particular point for discussion. There are many kind of mages, and in fact just allowing a certain archetype (Imma call it 'the Dumbledore') to learn the arts sounds beyond dull to me.

We will never ask to cut in line for the earth-shattering powers booth, but understand Magic is the one redeeming quality the HE are going to aim for, mechanical advantage or no. We are lore-bound to have extremely few allies, many enemies, lousy combat skills and being permanent enemies of the extremely powerful Orc race.

For rp reasons the Mages Guild does tend to lean towards high elves when it comes to recruiting. Of course what I am about say is in no way meant to be an insult to those who aren’t high elves, but the High Elves have a number of talented rpers. Plus they value science which the Mages Guild adores.

Why thank you. I do see many benefits for working with the Mage Guild OOCly, if only for consistency's sake, but I understand the Mage Guild will not see cooperation as urgent as we might find it (just how urgent? Depends on the outcome of this thread..). We would hope to find ourselves more classes, more RP exchanges and more opportunities for proper RPers to prove themselves as such.

[Jon Evaglno 202]

Here's the thing: the mage guild is literally on the brink of collapse. We would absolutely adore to do more RP with the HE, but we are having internal issues, such as abandoning all guild houses(not just the HE) and member activity issues. Ambros can back me up on this if my information is erroneous/BS/totally correct.

[Sporadic 2844]

Here's the thing: the mage guild is literally on the brink of collapse. We would absolutely adore to do more RP with the HE, but we are having internal issues, such as abandoning all guild houses(not just the HE) and member activity issues. Ambros can back me up on this if my information is erroneous/BS/totally correct.

Well maybe there are some matters of interest we can delve into on this aspect.

Has to be after the Lockdown, though. It's stalling all the RP I had planned :P. Oh well, I love rolling with the punches.

[Kote (luigimario77) 4]

I would be willing to learn magic and protect Haelun'or with it. I think not only will being a mage prove to have some great RP but the learning would be fun too. I do have to say the only mage I've met has to be Blundermore, and that was only briefly. It would be nice to have a couple of HE mages in Haelun'or.

[firespirit44 1323]

Is this a bad time to roll a magical character? Lol.

Anyways there is no need for this post yet, as the Magic apps have not even come out. If the High Elves are required by lore to perform magic, its still a ooc responsibility for the player to be mature and not misuse the mechanics or even powergame out of the situation.

They will still be judged by the same standards of excellent rp. Currently most mage characters dont use their mage prowess to enhance rp combat [well, a few do..]. And I dont think they ever should in the near future.

Alchemy is....unsure. There should be absolutely no way to obtain netherwart, but one way or another it enters the market, and if I see splash potions of harming flying in a warzone....yeah. RPing it should be perfectly fine, effects discussed beforehand. I just miss the fact I can hang bottles on it to make it look like I'm making tea.

[Kote (luigimario77) 4]

Is this a bad time to roll a magical character? Lol.

Anyways there is no need for this post yet, as the Magic apps have not even come out. If the High Elves are required by lore to perform magic, its still a ooc responsibility for the player to be mature and not misuse the mechanics or even powergame out of the situation.

They will still be judged by the same standards of excellent rp. Currently most mage characters dont use their mage prowess to enhance rp combat [well, a few do..]. And I dont think they ever should in the near future.

Alchemy is....unsure. There should be absolutely no way to obtain netherwart, but one way or another it enters the market, and if I see splash potions of harming flying in a warzone....yeah. RPing it should be perfectly fine, effects discussed beforehand. I just miss the fact I can hang bottles on it to make it look like I'm making tea.

Can you roll a magical character? I'm pretty sure they don't allow character to come in and be automatically magically apt. I'd rather keep my current char and make him learn magic somehow (wink wink to you mages) than to roll another char. I'd most likely like to double in alchemy as well if/when the ability is available.

Magic apps? Are those a thing to come? Also your comment about people having to be good at RP to be a Mage, I have to say that most HE are good rpers. Hopefully I can schedule a meeting with a Mage and learn the art of magic :D (again, wink wink to all you mages)

[firespirit44 1323]

There is no rule saying you cant roll a magic character, just behave, dont powergame, do good rp for those non-magic characters, and you'll be counted as a legit mage. Blundermore rolled as a mage on his server application, and if people didn't roll mages, there would probably only be one or two left.

The app is also to check the maturity of players.

[Kote (luigimario77) 4]

There is no rule saying you cant roll a magic character, just behave, dont powergame, do good rp for those non-magic characters, and you'll be counted as a legit mage. Blundermore rolled as a mage on his server application, and if people didn't roll mages, there would probably only be one or two left.

The app is also to check the maturity of players.

Okay, I see now. But my current char CAN become a Mage correct? I would just need to find a teacher (for the third time, wink wink to mages)

Edit: If I wanted my current char to be a Mage, would I need to post an app for him?

[firespirit44 1323]

I have no idea what the Magic team is doing for the apps.

But for your character becoming a mage, you would have to find a mage ingame, and have the correct qualities to be one. [To the mages discretion of whether they will take you in as a apprentice or not]

[Josh △ 87]

Why does this have to be only high Elves?

[Kote (luigimario77) 4]

Why does this have to be only high Elves?

Its not, the HE are just talking about this at this moment.

Hmmm, time to make a post seeing if there's a mage out there who is willing to get an apprentice. (4th time I believe? Wink wink to all of you mages in/near Haelun'or)