What The Dwarven Society Needs (OOC)

[Zezimus 1523]

Another thing worth mentioning that I know Aryon has already attempted is more military training exercises. Back when I joined the server, we had an entire guard force, constantly focused on training and fulfilling their duties, in order to earn their pay or even a promotion. This is what we need more of, rather than have every single piece of RP focused around the high up council members. I'm sure many new players would be perfectly happy to carry out these roles, we just need military leaders who can guide them.

Additionally, I think what Zuluman pointed out is very important. Do we want to be a fairly reclusive race or far more open to the world? Take into consideration the fact that closing off the city to any non-Dwarves could lead to a reduction in the number of players RPing there. Maybe have some areas closed off to the other races and other areas not, rather than having it so that only Dwarves may enter the city. As Zulu stated, this could all be put down to a vote so that everyone can have their say.

[zuluman 79]

I'm working on a poll that includes some of the ideas mentioned above. I'll have it up later today

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

I'm not sure if we have started buildings for 3.0 yet, but I think having an open air Mountain Dwarf city should be our capital, now that I have subliminally gotten that out of the way, onto my idea(s).

The Council -

My idea is to integrate it with the clan system, rather then having one council, we have two - the high council and the low council (I must admit, I did base this somewhat on the Australian parliament and the Dwarfen Assembly from Dragon Age).

The low council is responsible for representing the interests of the commoners. It consists of two heads of the commoner clans, as voted upon by the members of the commoners clans, the high prophet, the lord marshal, the grand merchant and city overseers (one per city). They have the power to present new laws and once a majority is accomplished, these laws are passed onto the high council for approval. They also enter in debate, alongside the high council and the king (if we choose to return to having one) over issues that face the entire dwarfen nation - such as wars and economic crisis.

The high council consists of the three lords of the noble clans (or their representatives if the councilors themselves are indisposed) and the king. The high prophet also takes part in the discussion, although his/her vote counts for nothing - he/she is only there to provide a dwarfen moral angle to the discussion. When the low council presents a law (that the majority of the low council has agreed upon) to the high council, they vote on it. The high council can not pass their permanent law, they must approach a member of the lower council to have it approved the normal way, HOWEVER in times of crisis, the high council is capable of passing temporary law (which will remain in place for no longer then one elven week) without the approval of the lower council, they are also capable of vetoing laws the lower council presesnts but to do so, they forfeit their right as a clan lord (to prevent abuse) and must step down. The king may veto law with no repercussion to their position or title (but they may piss off members of the lower council).

The king is capable of passing law with no questions asked, is capable of vetoing laws with no questions asked, is capable of revoking law with no questions asked and will remain king until such time as he is slain or steps down from his position.

Caste System -

( in progress )

Casteless - exiles, criminals and outcasts ((Think Mili Irongut)), lowest of the low, generally should be despised and reviled by the populace of the kingdom.

Worker Caste - majority of the player base, generic terms for our lumberjacks, miners, blacksmiths, farmers, fishermen, etc.

Merchant Caste - not so sure if this is a good idea or not.

Warrior Caste - our trained warriors, not the milita, professional fighters.

Shaper Caste - the educated group; mages, runesmiths, scholars, Remembrancers and clergy-men

Noble Caste - our lords and protectors, with some overlap with the warrior and shaper castes

[Zezimus 1523]

When Luchian was King, he and I decided upon creating a Lower Council but found that it was perhaps putting too much responsibility into the hands of the commoners since it really never played its role correctly and it was eventually removed. However, it would indeed give the chance for the commoner clans to have a say in local matters. Having said this however, I feel it should be the King and his selected councilors who should be making the important decisions. If we're having a caste based system, why give the commoner clans the power to create laws while the noble clans can only approve or disaprove of them?

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

I am not sure about your Idea bael, it seems as if it is still a heavily clan based society, which we are trying to get out of, in the simppa - belin times the clans had no purpose or existed until luchian's time when the Grandaxes and late black axes arose along with Irehearts.. We want to avoid a unfair bias so that we can respect the clans as families rather then political powers.

I also believe the caste should be rather small due to our numbers and they should not be too heavily greater than another, King > Advisor/Paragons > Council > Working class, magic should be a thing that should not be considered to make a Dwarf higher and it should be discouraged as a dangerous element, runesmithing on the other hand can go along with the clergy as a religous role.

Also linking to the previous paragraph I think the merchants should not be considered nobility as creating wealth for oneself and one self alone should be detested and seen as being fully cursed by Iblees, instead having government merchants who manage supply and wealth for the entire kingdom would greatly bolster our supplies and resources rather than divide them (Much like when I gave the Grandaxes 8-10 sets of diamond armor when they asked to protect the north).

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

I also believe the caste should be rather small due to our numbers and they should not be too heavily greater than another, King > Advisor/Paragons > Council > Working class, magic should be a thing that should not be considered to make a Dwarf higher and it should be discouraged as a dangerous element, runesmithing on the other hand can go along with the clergy as a religous role.

But do you really want to make Hiebe, Kilgrim and Morkas discouraged, they're such cool guys...

Also, I find the idea of having the clans being political powers as quite interesting. Another thing I have noticed is that the dwarfs tend to raise a lot of bureaucracy over some quite trivial things. If you insist on maintaining the clans as nothing more then families, I feel obliged to remind you that family ties are quite strong and no matter how much you try to root politics out of them, if someone from clan X becomes king, he is going to favor his clan, no matter how much he tries not to.

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

I liked the Algrim times, with I guess was like the Simmppa times...

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

(The original kings didn't >.> have clan bias)

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

I wasn't a dwarf in those days, so forgive me for saying so, but in those days, were clans as large a thing as they are now? To my knowledge, Simppa and Charles were 'clanless' and the Ironguts were just a bunch of dwarfen RP'ers who hung around in Hiebe's plot on the King's Road.

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

Actually in those days the clans only consisted of Hiebe, many Dwarves named themselves after goals they have achieved, it wasn't until much later when Ironguts "separated" from Dwarf society when Hiebe was replaced as lord marshal in which he begun his own hotel chain (this was around the time when I was like "What the hell is this guy doing!? Anore and Rasun you manage the army now!)

It provided a much more stable government until Luchian's which later created his down fall.. When all the clans fought over political bias.

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

Now to get back on topic.

We require a system that prevents the King from showing heavy bias for his or her clan and thus we should promote it in some method, maybe we could look at the possibility of Urguan mandating the King? Removing him from the clan to join the line of Kings.. Obviously everyone would be turned off by this but to be King is a responsibility and chore not a task of enjoyment, in the words of the old kings "Ruling sucks and is difficult".

[~TheDerpyBeagle~ 63]

SUPPORT!

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

Now to get back on topic.

We require a system that prevents the King from showing heavy bias for his or her clan and thus we should promote it in some method, maybe we could look at the possibility of Urguan mandating the King? Removing him from the clan to join the line of Kings.. Obviously everyone would be turned off by this but to be King is a responsibility and chore not a task of enjoyment, in the words of the old kings "Ruling sucks and is difficult".

How about some sort of tribunal system - I am still all for having clans being politically motivated, but the kings, not so much - and by tribunal if any member of either council accuses him of being corrupt, a certain group will investigate these claims and then... execute/exile him?

SUPPORT!

Post count +1 to the rescue :\

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

How about some sort of tribunal system - I am still all for having clans being politically motivated, but the kings, not so much - and by tribunal if any member of either council accuses him of being corrupt, a certain group will investigate these claims and then... execute/exile

This occured before in luchian's reign and created much OOC hate between Ironguts and the other clans thus ending with the Ironguts creating Holm and leaving the Dwarvern Kingdom until Broski took power when Luchain left, over all it is a dangerous and messy process.

[zuluman 79]

This has been said briefly but I think it needs to be stated again:

Please no massive councils. Please no upper and lower councils, unless they consist of 2-3 people each (4 is pushing it). The reason I don't want multiple councils with many people on each council is the logistics of meeting become a nightmare. Having large councils is great in theory but the commoner (lower) council that existed before fail to work because it was too big. It was hard to find a time for everyone to attend. In addition, people who weren't part of the meetings insisted on attending or stood outside with /s on. Large councils often discriminate against people (though perhaps not intentionally) who don't live in the United States. In the past a great number of dwarves with council seats have lived in the United States and thus the meets are made to suit those people best. It's only reasonable to make meets for large groups of people when the most people can attend, but it basically means that people in other time zones have trouble attending.

Kjell said it earlier. Large councils of half or two thirds of the population don't work. The meets are hard to organize, they take forever as everyone insists on speaking, theres lots of trolling, and very little gets accomplished. Please lets keep councils small. Send a representative from the guilds, and the clans into a small meeting where everyones IC and OOC concerns can be discussed, instead of having a mob of people screaming in RP and TS...

I'm not going to touch overly long on the statement that Merchants shouldn't be allowed to be nobles. Obviously I disagree. I don't think its right to start saying that certain members or characters in a certain profession can never reach nobility. It creates ill feeling and animosity.

((still working on the poll. In class, I'll get it up in probably 5ish hours))