What The Dwarven Society Needs (OOC)

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

As many of you know I have been with the Dwarves since the beginning of Aegis, the same as Hiebe and we've all seen the cycling rise and fall of the Dwarven society that occurs every so often, so I am hoping through this post that we may resolve many issues as a community rather than as a few elder players debating and discussing errors in PMs and G-Docs about our ways only to end up creating more errors and or issues.

Thus hopefully we can discuss with this thread what errors we have and how to solve them, one thing I do wish to mention is that we will not discuss the Dwarf creation lore here as we can solve it later and I am thinking about retracting the idea..

Now here is a decent list of issues we need to solve.

The main issue is structure, our society warps and changes far too often to keep stable or functional (as every time we change leaders a new government appears).

During the reign of Simppa to Luchian we have used the same system and almost always same people within the Grand council to manage our society, but recently we have been reforming our methods ever since Cracker's clan hold system originally used by the Goldhabds who lived seperate from us..

Now as a personal resolution I believe we need a few things to look for in a council such as activity, ability, willingness to follow, and some fresh blood!

Activity: Though it can be hard to find we need a council Who is capable of being quite active, a active council is a good and hard working council! As we cannot hold meetings or other things without co-operation especially when a few important figures are gone.. Thus we can do a few things about this,

1. Organize the council into labor, military, and economics that way we can easily hold small meetings when needed amongst our consuls but it is a questionable method as to if it can work.

2. Fill the council with stand in representitives (High Lords?) Who are capable of covering the position incase of absence, the only error to this is if the council is far too large half or three thirds of the kingdom (mainly ts users) will occupy the concil as nobles (Who may be greedy and snooty).

Ability: It is often hard to pick the correct people (Especially for king!) Thus we must create a test or method to find people who are able of doing the job actively (as their RP should be based around this occupation).

I have no methods about this matter as TS is the only way we know some one is capable even though half the server deosn't use it!

Willingness to follow: Once the council is elected and a new King we must remember that the King is the leader for the reason and the council is there purely to aid the King unless he has commited poor acts, which as the old method suggests that the council picks a new lord, all in all what the King says goes!

Fresh blood: We have become far to accustomed to each other and sometimes dare not to disagree with certain ideas so we should invite new people who are able into power

Now that we covered council it is now for nationalism:

The Dwarvish race lacks a good amount of national pride as the kingdom is consisted of clans who all claim they are the best (Your all lying to yourself Irehearts are!) and when ever we go to war our battle chants are often mixed together with different things that seem peculiar to yell such as "HOOODOOOR!!!"

Thus when the new King is elected I propose we should create a series of acts to adhere to much like china's mandate of heaven back in the middle ages, along with a proper symbol that we must bear and take pride in as we work in the mines or fight to defend our mountain homes.

What I believe the symbol should contain; Pickaxe, Axe, Bellowing Dwarf? (or just keep using the Ireheart Bolt)

Colors (as stated in TS);

Grey, the stone we work with, live with, thrive with, fight with

Brown, the dirt, the earth, our ale, our beards

Orange, unique, doesn't comply with other things (Nothing rhymes with orange..), Magma

Gold, wealth, pride, power

(Red if we really want the color everyone uses..)

Another idea is unique clothing that we may wear to show we are Dwavres of Urguan! I attempted uniforms many times before, but a series of clothing should be made with the Kingdom symbols and colors to show pride (Much like during my own reign when the council and others wore the colors of Paragon Kjell) this shows organization and devotion within our society and makes us seem better and more stronger than other societies like damn tree hugging elves!

One final topic we must discuss.. War.. We have grown to love war far too much, and our RP has been thriving on nothing but it! Maybe the battle of Hanseti should have taught us something other than a few corrupt figures, thus I plead that once the new King is elected that we abolish the need to attack and welcome the need to defend! We have much land so we should keep it well.

As a side note I wish to propose about the military that we set up a proper armed force that serves as the Gaurds of the Dwarvish kingdom and the Soldiers, supplying these Dwarves should be done by the Government and the people of the Kingdom, and then propose that we abolish clan run armies just to defuse the possibility of a Clan going "rebellious" as the clans should truely be ones of labor not pure conflict! This does not mean clans cannot partake in defensive battle! But they are not to be too heavily built around it, this hopefully may aid in making our economy flourish in the new world as well.

So go ahead comment! I will respond in the morning.

[Hiebe 2493]

Support. I will need to speak with you tomm then ;)

[zuluman 79]

I agree completely with the points you made.

Fill the council with stand in representitives (High Lords?) Who are capable of covering the position incase of absence, the only error to this is if the council is far too large half or three thirds of the kingdom

I'm very glad you mentioned this specifically. This problem has plagued the dwarves many times in the past. Everyone wants to join the meetings and it ends up turning into a massive shouting match where very little is achieved. Learning from our past mistakes with this will help us move forward.

I really feel what we need is to decide as a community/race what we want. We need to take a votes on whether players who play dwarves want to have our race be:

Religious (and if so exactly where on the scale of (non religious--> somewhat religious--> super religious)

Isolationism (ranging from we allow everyone inside our underground city --> we allow only trusted members of other races in --> we shut our doors, refusing entry to any who dwell above ground and become a legend or mystery)

[i'll fill in more when my brain isn't quite so fried...]

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

Kings don't get "elected", kings fight/birthright/cheat into power.

[youlovesocks 652]

I'm not sure if I have to comment something constructive or not... but,

Well said Kjell! I agree with everything you said.

[Wizard 125]

I agree with Gulroid that only very very trusted members of other races should be allowed in.

[Omithiel 192]

You are right I have always have seen that our RP is way to heavily focused on war. We need to do what Dwarves should be doing in usual RP. Mining, Feasting, Clan Tournaments, Drinking etc.

As for the council it should be for those who are active and for those who are actually are able to do the job, and those who can bring RP within their jobs for the rest of the dwarves.

National Pride, As for battle chants it should be based upon things that happen in our history or people of importance. The best battle chants are believe are those that are poetic if any of you would like to create some that would be much appreciated. ( I can as well but I'm not that great at poetry.)

I suggest the Dwarven Symbol should be a Pick axe crossed with an axe ( or hammer.) Than below it an anvil and above the pick and axe would be a small crown. Below the anvil would be a mug of ale. The axe and pick represent the Dwarves very well, which two of these objects are heavily within our culture and warfare. As for the Anvil it represents our stability and endurance, including our creativity (As in Crafting, runes, art, etc.) . For the mug it represents our love to drink and spend time with our fellow kin.

As for clothing, Yes we should have clothing to represent our national pride, but it should also consists of crafted jewelery, armor, and fine clothing. We not only should represent our national pride but as a culture who loves fine crafted goods. ( Examples of jewelery : Helmets, Circlets, rings, braces, belts, etc.)(Examples of armor : Metal armor, fine trimmed clothing with chainmail underneath, Aprons, even shirtless is fine but have tattoos at least.)

I will edit this shortly to add more things. ( A bit busy at the moment.)

[Aengoth 2890]

--I'm more than willing to accept any changes and such, personally though I would like changes that would allow the dwarf community to become stronger but also allow individuals involve themselves if they so choose in matters outside of Kal'Karik.

--I think something we need greatly is more organization for getting completely fresh dwarves into mines, lumberyards, and farms so they have jobs within the community to give them more purpose. I feel with the current system, although this may just be due to my and Watsen56's experiences, that trying to get a job can't be quite troublesome. I realize everyone is busy but new players need something to do or else interest will be lost, I know I was having quite some issues when I had to work at a open to all campsite lumberyard to work on my trade as a lumberjack for a period of time.

--I'd like to see a broader group for all of the trades instead of separating each trade. A military group which acts as Guards and the main fighting force. The only other group I can think of at this moment would be a guild of the dwarven clergy ( I realize there is a dwarven clergy, but I have yet to actually find a post on applying to become a member )

--Concerning Gulroids post: Extremely religious, I think this would tie in very well with the dwarven culture and also gives interest when references are made to our lore, such as having a group/individual solely Devoted to Ogradhad, becoming the grand Lorekeeper for our culture. As for Isolationism, being completely cut off sounds very appealing but I'd rather go for the haft way point to avoid role play experiences going stale for some, and also to allow the ability to have some interesting and somewhat random RP happening from time to time.

--Some of my ideas are probably a bit naive and I apologize if so, this is just my interpretation although I am very new to the dwarven and LoTC community.

--Side note can someone send me what channel passwords for TS that will be needed for those who are going to be active in Teamspeak, I would like to involve myself more in the core community ( although I do not actually own a mic I'd still like to atleast become active so I have the potential to do more ), it would be greatly appreciated. Anyway I'm off for the night, any input on this would be greatly appreciated as I realize I need to improve and being a new member it would be better if I learned from those more experienced.

[Igneberr 46]

Well here is my suggestion about what the Dwarves should do. The Bread Elf rank should be made a supreme title and made like hand of the King :P

[Aryon 679]

I'm going to be writing up a MASSIVE Google Doc. tonight, and I'll send it to Kjell, Zezimus, TEEbrown, Hiebe, and Zuluman. Hopefully it can help sort us out.

[Damen 5]

Kjell, From what I have whitnessed from both lifes of Caseus and Damen, I completely agree with this. In all of my time with the Dwarfs, they have always been fighting with other Races. So many Dwarfs skinning orcs, fighting humans. They need to focus more on being Jolly, yet gruff Individuals that many versions of Lore depict them!

[Mingpow321 285]

Building on Aengoth's job and group ideas, I believe it would be interesting if the dwarves were to implement a sort of caste system. Power and respect scaling like such:

-Nobles*****

-Clergy****

-Magically Adept***

-Craftsmen/Artisans***

-Warriors***

-Plebeians** (Miners, lumberjacks, etc.)

-Dishonored

It is always possible to advance one's place in society through hard work and achievement, assuring that those who offer the most to the nation also reap the largest benefits. This system of castes does not necessarily need to be written into law or made official by the government, it could merely be the natural way of things. Just mah two cents...

(On phone.)

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

Ok a few things which I thought we need to go fixing. First off, we need ancient dwarf lore accepted across the board and a long with that our playerbase needs to adhere to it. The religion needs to be accepted and adhered too. Why? Because the only thing our playerbase seems to be able to accept across the board is fighting with other races.

We need a proper, full and total explanation of the clan system. Noble clans need to become very exclusive and the 'clanless' dwarfs need to slot in somewhere other then just making pests of themselves.

We need to flesh out our lore and have all the dwarfs accept it and stop contradicting it for their own purposes.

We need a lot more events to kick up activity among our playerbase and we need to encourage our playerbase to remain in our own areas to maintain a constant flow of enjoyable RP. We should only be leaving our homeland in groups.

We need to be organizing ourselves into manageable groups, preferably by timezone, so we can make friends and to help the new dwarfs find where the old dwarfs are.

We need to get over ourselfs and our clans and develop patriotic instincts rather then just 'my clan is best!!!!'.

And last of all, we need our leaders to stop changing **** every time power changes hands.

Oh and most importantly, we need to sort this **** out before 3.0.

---

Now following on from that, I do have a few ideas leading about the 'council'. Ill put that up later in another post.

[Zezimus 1523]

We've been discussing this for a while now, as Bael said, the most important thing is we get this sorted before 3.0 and we actually stick to it this time. While the clan Lord system has been interesting, I do feel that if our nation is to function properly, we should bring back the old King system, and while the clans should still exist to cause friction and conflict RP within the nation, they should play a lesser role in the nation's leadership. We should learn to follow what the King orders us to do, rather than have clans refuse to act because of what their Lord tells them. The council, clans and clergy would instead act as advisory bodies to the King, when making his decisions. Providing we can get active players onto the council, that actually have some commitment to their jobs and are willing to RP with new Dwarves who come into the city, I feel what Charles has suggested could definitely work. If you are given a Council position, you should be prepared to be there when you're called upon.

As Omithiel suggested, we need many more players online and in the city, outside of events and wars since a lot of us tend to hang around in teamspeak doing nothing while new players are left to wander through an empty city. I very much like what the Clergy is doing since it's actually giving people a reason to be in the city and get involved with what's going on. Remember, conflict within the nation is not neccessarily a bad thing, providing it doesn't spill into OOC. This, along with tavern RP, arena fights, mining expeditions and whatever comes to mind when you think of a Dwarven society is what we need more of. More nation wide events would be very interesting to see. As of yet, I haven't seen a whole lot of progress on this, except for the thread of ideas that Skippy posted.

As Mingpow suggested, bringing back the same caste based system that existed during Kjell's reign would definitely be interesting to see, providing it is properly implemented into our role play. Perhaps we need some sort of council building that only members of the nobility are allowed to enter? We could then have the Legion, made up of both a guard force and the regular warriors who are called upon during wars. They could maybe have more privileges than a normal citizen would, as was the case while Stronghold was Head Guard in Kal'Urguan.

The only thing I don't particularly like is full uniform as I just don't feel it's very Dwarven. I just think there should be more of a variety in what Dwarves can wear. Maybe a uniform for the guards but in my opinion, council members should be free to where whatever extravagant clothing they desire. As Charles stated, our Kingdom colours should probably be browns, greys, golds and maybe more burgundy than red. As for the flag, I would suggest a mining pick or an anvil, axes tend to represent Orcs a little too much.

[Aryon 679]

Yes, sorting this before 3.0 should be our main aim. We do not want to enter 3.0 a mess.

I agree, we should go back to the age of Charles Grimlie and Simpaa. They led the Dwarves in their finest age, let's hope it can happen again. The political system will need quite a bit of changing, and the clans will need to be ready to adapt. I know it may be difficult and such, but we need to centralize as much RP as possible, and to unite under a single king sounds like a great idea.

I have to agree with Zezimus. Perhaps a uniform for the military, and the guard to identify the men. But I do not want to be forced to wear certain clothes, as I quite like my own custom skins. We need more player made events, things that don't require the GM's to blow up half our city. Things like Arena Fights, Drinking Contests, all those fun things! In the short time I've been with the Dwarves, I have loved the OOC time. The IC time has been less enjoyable, but I have placed that on the fact that I am Australian and don't get much RP anyway.

As I said to some of the other leaders, we seem to be completely focused on war and killing dragons. We need to return to what we used to be in Aegis, honorable beings who had RP sitting at every corner. Heck, go as a group to Normander, create some interesting RP. I don't care, but I want the Dwarven Community to be known as the community that creates their own RP, and are self reliant. We have the abilities, the required players. We just need to put it into effect.

I'm trying my best to get the Dwarven Community involved, trying to make training sessions and Arena Fights. I've been here for two weeks, and I've loved my time here. Come now, Dwarves. Help me create events, help me create fun for the Dwarves, and it shall come back for you and provide fun!