Gathius di Silvari

I think you raise a good point, healing magic has devolved into a thing where all injuries are healed pretty much with little effort and there are no repercussions. However, the answer is not to make it less powerful or flat out remove it. Healing roleplay has been a staple of the server for a long time and it suits the environment, an environment where people literally cannot die, they are resurrected, healing their injuries is a pretty insignificant thing. People also have to play these characters for fun and maybe they don’t care to have their character permanently maimed or care to rp being bedridden and healing. They should have the option instead of being forced into it. I think the problem here is with the players that have become complacent and lazy and thrown old customs out the window, and lore that has steered away from what it once was. Former clerical lore has been all but ignored in recent years. Healing someone, for a cleric, used to be a serious endeavor. It was painful for not only the patient but the cleric. The idea of having your nonlife threatening injury feel excruciating to heal as the light forcefully mended your body was discouraging to many whom might want to just ignore injury. Clerics had to balance pain relief with healing and often needed a second cleric acting as the pain reliever. At one point the cleric actually took on the pain of their patient. If they didn’t want to go through the process for every petty wound they lived with their wounds. This served the purpose of not making people deal with the maiming they experience on a day to day basis but making them nurture the lesser wounds they got, traditionally and mundanely. If they shrugged off the idea of the pain, well the process was problematic for the cleric. The immense aengulic power being channeled through clerics was dangerous and corrosive, their mortal shells could not sustain it effectively. It caused extreme exhaustion, major heals likely resulted in being comatose for a while and vulnerable and if pushed themselves too much and healed too many times, it was lethal. Now, it’s meant to cause you to feel exhaustion but there isn’t really anything suggesting it’s life threatening. Personally, I almost always told people with nonlife threatening wounds to heal on their own and mundanely treated their injuries, setting bones, suturing, etc. The wound will heal with time, it’s not worth rendering me ineffective and vulnerable to do, if it’s not serious. It was not farfetched for a cleric that healed every little wound to end up pking. One perfect example was a cleric I knew a long time ago that wanted to heal every little thing, because he believed he had this power, why should people suffer? He rped about half the time being cared for by other clerics as he was brought low by his dangerous overuse of healing magic and pked his character for just that reason. That’s the philosophy that needs to be instilled, not nowadays where every little thing is just a few emotes away from being healed and the end result is no greater than as if you just went through a heavy work out with no real cost. I believe a return to these old ways or a variation thereof is a ready option for solving the problems stated in the head post. It makes healing more scarce and creates a better identity for clerics, their life is hard and they take on a number of burdens for other people, instead of the path of clericism being all reward and no punishment, and healing being as common as can be. The answer however isn’t eliminating healing magic or rendering it not worth the trouble of learning.

I don’t know how coherent this all is, but these are my thoughts. I’m not sure why this is that huge of an issue, disconnection isn’t exactly common to begin with. Was there an occurrence of disconnection that made you uncomfortable with the way it was performed? What is the precipitating event of this discussion beyond speculation about how disconnection could be used? I don’t know if a rule change should be considered when no fault of the status quo has been found. You show a severe lack of faith that people that roleplay in circles where deity magic is common would be guilty of simply removing someone because they don’t like them OOCly. As far as IC reasons, I hesitate to restrict anything that occurs in character and makes sense for a character. I think it’s important to leave OOC, such as in the form of an application, out of things as much as possible. Here are some suggestions and concerns in no particular order. Yes it is not good that a practitioner of deity magic can disconnect a practitioner simply because they don’t like them. That’s a real concern, but that’s really subjective as any disconnection would be an in character affair and there is naturally going to be some degree of animosity between the conflicting parties. That’s the nature of human beings, normal practitioners aren’t creatures of perfection like the Itharel or Keepers were meant to be. Though hopefully someone disconnecting is unbiased and merely sticking with doctrine, part of life is that there is a mix of real reason and fabricated reason, and part of religion is that there are always differing and often conflicting interpretations of religious doctrine. The lore is written with fairly simple instructions on what the deity believes, at least in the case of Tahariae. There is little gray area about what Tahariae would accept, someone actually not following his tenants, would do it. However, there is a lot of gray area when deciding how a descendent would react to his tenants or what would be interpreted when it is less clear. Unfortunately, I don’t have an extreme amount of knowledge of all deity magic practitioners. However, I think it’s reasonable to assume that they all have different beliefs, different strictness to their beliefs, different ways the deity influences humanity and impacts the world, and different customs to handling disconnection. An all-encompassing, this applications must be filled out to disconnect someone, system is not a good idea when dealing with such matters and such variety. You have someone here that knows mostly about Tahariae suggesting decisions about every deity magic, this really should be dealt with on a deity by deity basis. I would hope that all practitioners of deity magics not just Tahariae ones would input on this discussion. If someone incharacterly believes they are being hunted in character and might be disconnected soon, they should already be running and hiding if they are inclined to try to prevent it. It is so easy for someone to metagame knowledge and make up the most convincing in character reason to avoid such a fate and there be no reason anyone can call them out, because the question faced by any accusers isn’t why did your character do that, but why not? There is no way to know if a person is being OOCly or ICly motivated unless it is terribly obvious, and it often isn’t, one likes to give players the benefit of the doubt. I’d rather someone that is breaking tenants of faith to, if they are doing it intentionally, hide or someone who knows someone has threatened them to be wary or someone that is clueless to be clueless. Someone with intent to disconnect a practitioner for malpractice isn’t going to shoot a flare in the air for the wrongdoer to see and run for the hills, they’re just going to collect evidence and do it. It is argued that the application does not disconnect a person and would give them an ability to hide and avoid it, this is a clear explanation about what could happen if someone metagames this and does in fact hide with no reason other than this application. An application is a huge temptation to metagame that should be avoided. Illustrated above you have a folly, something I don’t think is being totally considered and could if exploited be detrimental. It is easy to become a practitioner of magic, technically. One must have a teacher willing to teach them, the student application being very simple, no explanation as to your ability to actually roleplay that magic is needed. Total trust is given to the teacher to teach the magic and make sure the student isn’t learning it wrong and breaking rules. The application suggested puts up a stonewall to someone being forcefully removed from the magic. I’d rather deity magic be able to self-regulate in natural order without going through bureaucratic processes that have been shown in the past to be tenuous. I’d rather trust roleplay than more bloody applications added to the collection and trust that if someone goes on a disconnection binge for lols that that can be spotted and dealt with. You have applications where there are hundreds of magic users on the server and misuse could really hurt roleplay, you have dozens of new applicants to be whitelisted weekly, if not more, you have applications for staff positions where a bad applicant could have serious server ramifications. Those are all reasonable. Having an application for something that occurs a couple of times every several months and no one has really complained about in the past is annoying as hell and unnecessary, and the risks listed I think outweigh the benefit.

One: Fair. Though the elemental still scales faster than any cleric should and is capable of powerful things if not directly equivalent things. Two: Once a wound is ‘stable.' By definition it is unlikely to change, fail or decline. Your use of the word stable will be interpreted as such by the majority. You need to use wordage that suggests a more temporary solution. That once the elemental has used its energy the person will begin once more creeping towards death. You say you didn’t use wordage suggesting you were rejuvenating exhaustion from mana use. You used wordage suggesting you were rejuvenating mana. In quote, “re-energizing their stamina and mana slowly.” Again, people will pervert your lore if proper concessions are not made. Perhaps a red line? Here you admit to the elemental having ability above that of the cleric that made it. Time is an ineffective limiter of power. It is infinitely interpretable. Battles in LOTC often take a very small amount of actual rp time. You can emote an hour and finish a fight and that technically only having taken place for 10 seconds. It is very easy for a cleric without clearly defined guidelines to make up what they please. Especially since, they spent 90 days making this thing. It’s not unreasonable, unless it’s a gross amount of time, for someone to say ‘Eh, close enough.’ Three: Perhaps the comparison is unwarranted. It is not the power level of the coveted uber cleric flames of reckoning. Attribute it to the orbs of light, which are very capable of cutting through tainted beings. It’s the cleric’s bread and butter. And these are whips of light, infinitely better. You can aim them better, it’s harder to dodge them. Also if you’ve ever been burned it doesn’t, in quote, “continue for a few moments after contact is broken.” It ******* hurts for a long time and if it’s “Holy flames” that dark being is having an extremely bad day. There are dark beings that ‘flames’ are an even greater weakness than holy magic. Flames aren’t something to say, ‘I’m adding effect’ they have extreme benefit in combat. They burn for a few seconds, causing more damage. There’s also nothing more detrimental to concentration than having a bunch of fire on you. Also you keep saying, slowly drains its life force. There’s not numbers here. I can guarantee you that the most acceptable answer to those guidelines is. “It’s good until the end of the fight unless the fight is grossly long.” Which again makes time weaknesses a moot point that don’t come up often. T3 elementals have to reform their whips over a few emotes. Ya this works as an effective counter. However, T4’s don’t. Their arms function just like whips. Don’t say otherwise. As described these are two permanently attached whips. Four: Fair. Five: I was not saying/meaning they would pump them out one after another in a single setting. I’m saying in a matter of a month or so every Sutican Cleric could be hanging out with a ball of joy. Effectively doubling or near doubling their attacking power. Six: Fair. Seven: But squirt. They AREN’T clerics. They ARE powerful. They ARE permanently connected to Tahariae. They ARE in permanent existence. And they ARE in no danger of dying except in nonstandard battles or if they are personally targeted. And it is an animalistic interpretation of the cleric’s personality, therefore its own personality. Eight: A new point was brought us by Tsu and ski_king3. Is this even something that Tahariae would allow/accept? The closest to an uncleric servant there has been is the Itharel. Itharel were what could by some be considered near mindless in their devotion. Near emotionless in their actions. These elementals in comparison have stunning personalities. They are playful and curious in bounds. They have no devotion to Tahariae but instead to their creator. If he thought the Itharel were flawed creations, these beings of light playfully nipping at their creator’s heels certainly are. Also, you make an interesting point. Yet as we’ve debated in the past about what you so adamantly believe, you still believe Tahariae to be the aengul of purity solely, not of purity AND justice. This is not an interpretation. Tahariae is factually the aengul of purity and justice, that is the lore. Impure unjust beings are targeted, not just impure beings. There is also the question. When we heal why do we return it to its previous uncut shape and not create the perfect human being slowly by slowly. Because the idea of purity is possibly limited to what naturally should exist there. If nature creates something with flaws, it is permitted, as long as it being there does not undo, can’t undo, or seek to undo other natural things. Though in humor. As for why we aren’t hunting nontainted impure beings. My answer is. All in due time my child. . . All in due time.

To begin with, I like it. I think it’s cool and the idea of having a little round ball full of personality following around is really neat. On that level, it makes me smile. It is also very well written, and defined like a proper piece of lore should. However, there are some serious problems with this lore. ONE: A skilled and knowledgeable Cleric (T5) is required to create a powerful ward in a sphere like shape. Sure. Why not. Then a lower can fill it with energy. Well I’d love to know how low to start with. Sounds like the elemental grows regardless of the person infusing it with energy, since it grows faster than a connected cleric does, each subtype supposed to take several months to master and a T5 elemental appears after 2 months + 15 days to full power? That means a non T5 cleric can create a permanently connected cleric equivalent faster than it takes a single individual to even learn one subtype of magic. TWO: Now, you might say “well gath they aren’t cleric equivalents, they are weaker.” This simply isn’t the case. It’s true restorative elementals seems to be able to only heal small wounds and stabilize patients. Though on a side note, auto stabilizing a patient isn’t as low powered as it seems by the way. That’s actually most of the work, once they are stabilize you have as much time as you need to fully heal them, all of a sudden high levelled clerics that are able to heal more than a couple at a time are obsolete. All wounds heal with time, the real danger of dying in in those crucial minutes or hours after injury. That’s your best case, a less powerful (kind of) healer than the cleric is. Wait though, there’s more, the elemental can do more. In quote, “Those that the elemental deems to be the cleric’s allies will have the healing light seep into them, re-energizing their stamina and mana slowly. Useful to allies that may be tiring from combat, mana expenditure, or succumbing to wounds. This “area of effect Prayer of Rejuvenation” does slowly drain the elemental’s Light,” Let me be clear. Clerics can heal a person’s exhaustion. However, Clerics cannot reenergize mana expenditure it is contrary to our lore. And we cannot do such healing in an area of effect at that. So their light elemental minion doing it is shocking. In war, its better, more balanced. Blinding and shield abilities sure. Though it is not clear on their limits and power. It is left up in interpretation, which is a danger. THREE: Let’s take a step back. A T2 elemental can exude light, have a divine aura, auras are a permanent effect. This light can both heal and cause dark beings discomfort. Dark beings feel shearing pain whereas all wounds a descendent has is negated until a further point where a cleric can heal them. Clerics can’t do this? Clerics can’t even come close to this. They don’t walk around with a divine aura. If a divine elemental can burn and heal even just two people at once at a range it surpasses its clerical counterpart. Now, a redline addresses this, it doesn’t hurt dark beings unless physical contact takes place. This isn’t as bad, but it is still a permanently connected cleric causing damage to whatever it can touch as a whim. No redline states that they don’t heal with this light, and that still surpasses its clerical counterpart. A T3 can create TENDRILS? Now, these are weaker than what we are accustomed to, just one. However, tendrils are a super high level ability that Keepers and Itharel once utilized, maybe just keepers, much to the dismay of shades. Keepers and Itharel being the demigod uber powerful avatars of Tahariae and Xan respectfully and they don’t even exist anymore. And they are the shade’s bread and butter. Seems a bit odd to exist on this T3 light elemental. The same aura problem persists. T4. Holy ****, more tendrils. However, these are cleverly disguised as arms and mark my words are powerful. They light taint on fire and cause immense pain. The clerical counterpart make light projectiles, orbs of light, similar in power perhaps, but a lot more difficult to control and limited in number. Though orbs of light don’t cause flames to break out. As these are extensions of the elemental using them is assumingly like using our own arms and legs, tireless. Aura continues. This is just one month, mind me. And these abilities are a part of their nature; they don’t have to be taught these. Also, a note to make the T5 uber clerical ability is flames of reckoning, extremely tiring to use and devastating to dark beings. Holy flames burn their opponents on both T3 and T4 elementals. This is shockingly close to this coveted ability. FOUR: Don’t light elementals sound familiar? Yeu Rthulu, the kindhearted, compassion filled, content lesser aengul that just wants everyone to get along, has these. Descendents have to give up their body and arguably their free will to become this. And they certainly don’t fight. FIVE: I don’t know much about nonholy magics but I’ll attempt to argue the point. Conjuration creates beasts like this. But those are temporary. Doesn’t it feel like once more we are entering into another magic’s forte and making it infinitely better? Atronachs exists, these are permanent I think, but mages seem to have to go through hell and back to get them, knowing 3 types of magic, elemental evocation, conjuration, and transfiguration. Golems exist, lord know those are a pain to create. There’s a reason you don’t see these things wandering around willy nilly. These light elementals seem far too easy to get and the nature of clerical magic is once you are a cleric you can kind of branch off into other subtypes without much regulation as long as you have a teacher. I can imagine these popping up everywhere. Every cleric suddenly becomes two, and their buddy is no push over. The roleplay is surely appealing and satisfying, but we can’t ignore the balance and mechanical implications of such a lore. You need one T5 pumping out elemental shells and then passing them to ‘lesser’ clerics training in blessing like candy. SIX: These are powerful beings, like golems, like atronachs. Their position in combat would matter a lot as well as timely intelligent emotes. Why is the cleric playing them and not another player? I agree, that the nature of the lore would mean little if another player, played them. They are a part of the cleric, and only that cleric would know how to play them right. If you want a cleric to play them, they should be delegated to more of a pet role instead of a fragment of your soul taking on the guise of a dark being wrecking elemental being. For example, once you get past the second tier they become too complex for a single player. Pets use simple emotes that can be done in battle. My hawk dives down and pecks at the dudes eyes. SEVEN: This is not a simple blessing. This is a sword that cleaves through dark beings more effectively. This is another being, being created by a cleric. It has its own personality and abilities making it on par with powerful clerics. It exists permanently with the only difference being they need to be ‘recharged’ that is something that has little implementation on how they play.