The Qualities Of A Nation

[Monk Sudo 3]

*A new document finds its way into the Cloud Temple Library*

The Qualities of a
Nation:
The Keevian Strategy

By Keevan
Zenzedel

 

(( Here is my OOC ideas for how a nation
in Anthos should be set up that would best help the community on a whole,
expressed in RP form with OOC reasoning for every idea. If you have any ideas/counterarguments
feel free to PM me, and I’d happily reply! Let the debate begin! ))

 

A nation must exist for the people.
An autocratic government must never be allowed to exist, because not only would
it be inefficient, but also it would not serve the people as well as possible
or allow the people to participate. The best way to lead a nation is to set
examples, define standards, get everyone involved, but keep the laws to a
minimum.

 

            On The Matter of War:

 

1.
A nation must have a strong military-leader: A nation must have a leader whose sole duty is to
conduct defense of the nation and control the military. Whether this leader be
elected or a king, there must be one. Clear boundaries of this person’s
military power must be defined to keep them from becoming too powerful.

(( OOC Reasoning: This keeps
the government together, having one person to lead.))

 

2.
A nation must never be allowed to invade without reason: Invasions of other nations only occur because of
greed. A nation must never be allowed to invade another country based on
senseless claims. An international guild must be set up and backed by all
countries to prevent these senseless invasions, and if an invasion were deemed
to be fair, then this guild would provide help.

(( OOC Reasoning: This prevents Anthos from
going into the chaos with so many nations that happened over the summer.
Perhaps the GM’s could run the international guild, so that they can RPly exert
their OOC powers to keep Anthos stable? ))

 

3.
A nation must be advised by it’s minor military leaders:
All nobles or military leaders should be placed on a Military Council, which
would vote on matters and advise the leader. A military leader would have the
ability to bypass decisions not approved by 3/5 of the council.

 

(( OOC Reasoning: This is to
have nobles do things involved with the government- if they want to be nobles,
they should have duties to fulfill, which will be got to later ))

 

On The Matter of Citizens:

1.
A nation must allow everyone to become citizens:
Everyone applying for citizenship to a nation should be allowed citizenship
even if they hold criminal records in other nations. If their criminality can
be proven, than they should be judged by how a citizen of a nation would be
judged.

(( OOC Reasoning: This
attempts to make sure that nations remain open and easy for new players to join
and participate in. ))

 

2.
A nation must get everyone involved: In order to get everyone involved, a nation should
find ways to get the advice and help of every citizen of a nation.

(( OOC Reasoning: This should
cultivate more nation RP for everyone, not just nobles. This should also
cultivate more immersive and interesting nations, since everyone will have to
be involved.))

 

3.
A nation must set up multiple councils: In order
to make micromanagement possible, multiple councils on every topic necessary to
rule a nation should be set up. This is a great way to get everyone involved.
Setting up multiple councils would allow a country to effectively manage every
sector that a council has been set up to preside over.

((
OOC Reasoning: This puts #2 into practice, and is my personal suggestion
for how to get everyone involved. It should allow people to act as if they were
a bureaucrat (as in political things), without actually having a bureaucracy
(because everyone would be able to participate.))

 

On the Matter of Management:

1.
A nation must have some sort of feedback system: An
effective nation would have some method of asking the public that are not
employed in councils what their opinion on matters are. This would allow a
government to know which things they should support, to keep any revolutions
from occurring.

(( OOC Reasoning: A nation
exists for its players, to cultivate different RP experiences than other
nations, and the only way that a nation’s leaders could know whether they are
following through on this would be by reaching out to everyone, via survey on
the forums, both an OOC and RP one.))

 

2.
A nation must make their goals clear to the people: Every
nation should have a clear set mission statement defining why they have the
right to exist. If a nation has no reason to exist that is different than other
nations, than they should not be allowed entry into any coalitions with other
nations, and other countries would have the right to destroy that nation.

(( OOC Reasoning: As stated
before, a nation exists for its players. Each player should know which nation
has what types of RP. Also, players should be informed more about things going
on in government to keep the confusion low. ))

 

3.
A nation must not make claim to another nation’s lands
without gaining international support: It
would be unwise to make claims to another nation’s lands without first gaining
the support of as many nations as possible.

(( OOC Reasoning: This more of a check on
the leaders of nations, to prevent war that has not been approved for RP purposes, and to prevent any wars
that would be conducted with personal interest in the minds of the leaders. ))

 

[Helvetius 314]

Adelmar snorts as he reads it, "A another foolish idealist."

 

((OOCly: Dun't like it that much. Let peps/leaders choose their government and how it is runz even it if is autocratic. Other things I approve with like not invading without reason, though any man can invade for just the want for land. The barbarians in ancient times tried to settle in rome's land/take it. Overall though, there are too many forced things to this. Nations don't have to have feedback, listen to its people (Tyrant), ect..))

[Monk Sudo 3]

Adelmar snorts as he reads it, "A another foolish idealist."

 

((OOCly: Dun't like it that much. Let peps/leaders choose their government and how it is runz even it if is autocratic. Other things I approve with like not invading without reason, though any man can invade for just the want for land. The barbarians in ancient times tried to settle in rome's land/take it. Overall though, there are too many forced things to this. Nations don't have to have feedback, listen to its people (Tyrant), ect..))

Alright, your opinion has been taken into account, but I'd like to get some more feedback so I can better this document:

-You said: "Let peps/leaders choose their government and how it is runz even if it is autocratic". However, you also say "there are too many forced things to this". How do you propose that I get around the problem of preventing those government types, but keeping the document from forcing things? Also, you say, "Nations don't have to have feedback, listen to its people" then name a type of government. If you are for preventing certain types of government, would that not make your last point void? And this idea for the document does try to infuse certain features into ALL nations governments to increase the RP and fun.

[Helvetius 314]

Alright, your opinion has been taken into account, but I'd like to get some more feedback so I can better this document:

-You said: "Let peps/leaders choose their government and how it is runz even if it is autocratic". However, you also say "there are too many forced things to this". How do you propose that I get around the problem of preventing those government types, but keeping the document from forcing things? Also, you say, "Nations don't have to have feedback, listen to its people" then name a type of government. If you are for preventing certain types of government, would that not make your last point void?

((I mean a dictator can take power if it has the force of the military behind it, and deny the common citizen below living in the mud huts the ability of free speech towards them that's negative or worrying upon the penalty of death. Also, as for preventing it, you can't. There are leaders who just have military mongrels behind them like the Flays, but no common citizen. Then you have leaders like the once Hightowers who had the support of many citizens but little of the military. Creating a council or some other form of government would have to be created the same way with either/or or both sides supporting (Military and Civilians). Again, something like that has to be done rply and willingly. You cannot "prevent" government types without some ooc sky-god rule.))

[Monk Sudo 3]

((I mean a dictator can take power if it has the force of the military behind it, and deny the common citizen below living in the mud huts the ability of free speech towards them that's negative or worrying upon the penalty of death. Also, as for preventing it, you can't. There are leaders who just have military mongrels behind them like the Flays, but no common citizen. Then you have leaders like the once Hightowers who had the support of many citizens but little of the military. Creating a council or some other form of government would have to be created the same way with either/or or both sides supporting (Military and Civilians). Again, something like that has to be done rply and willingly. You cannot "prevent" government types without some ooc sky-god rule.))

 

 

((Valid argument, but here is my point that (seems) to make it void and correct it: The idea of an international guild that would be supported by multiple nations would prevent a dictator from being put in charge, because it would immediately be attacked by literally every other nation in Anthos. Also, in order to exert the GM's will regarding nations (Example, the GM's decide that a nation is not good for RP, so they could RPly make a decision within the UN-like guild that the nation must be destroyed, so every nation in Anthos would then invade the enemy nation to destroy them.) you could just have the GM's RPly be its leaders, and "Sky-God" nonesense issue is fixed. Good?))

[Crayfishchris 751]

Kristian raises an eyebrow at the proposal. "The man thinks 'e can control the governments of Anthos, eh? Poor lad's in fer a shock."

 

((Fact of the matter is, Adelmar is correct. The only way this will work is if everyone agrees to it in RP... and I can't see that happening. Take, for instance, the High Elves. They /only/ allow high elves to become citizens... that's how it's been. They're isolated and that's how they like it. And also, it just prevents people from doing things to take over, since you literally can't do anything otherwise (this might've been said). Good proposal and it seems to be in the best intentions, but I don't see it working out~.))

[Monk Sudo 3]

Kristian raises an eyebrow at the proposal. "The man thinks 'e can control the governments of Anthos, eh? Poor lad's in fer a shock."

 

((Fact of the matter is, Adelmar is correct. The only way this will work is if everyone agrees to it in RP... and I can't see that happening. Take, for instance, the High Elves. They /only/ allow high elves to become citizens... that's how it's been. They're isolated and that's how they like it. And also, it just prevents people from doing things to take over, since you literally can't do anything otherwise (this might've been said). Good proposal and it seems to be in the best intentions, but I don't see it working out~.))

((

Thank you for you feedback. Do you imagine this proposal working if it only applies to major racial nations?

[Anderssn 1115]

((

I don't really get the point of this. Nations and settlements are lead by rp. And the leaders choose how to rule.

Aaaand, could you please change the blue colored text to something else, it's hard to read(on my screen at least)?

 

 

((Valid argument, but here is my point that (seems) to make it void and correct it: The idea of an international guild that would be supported by multiple nations would prevent a dictator from being put in charge, because it would immediately be attacked by literally every other nation in Anthos. Also, in order to exert the GM's will regarding nations (Example, the GM's decide that a nation is not good for RP, so they could RPly make a decision within the UN-like guild that the nation must be destroyed, so every nation in Anthos would then invade the enemy nation to destroy them.) you could just have the GM's RPly be its leaders, and "Sky-God" nonesense issue is fixed. Good?))

 

A gm say I don't like that place lets burn it to the ground? Doesn't sound very good to me. :S

))

[Monk Sudo 3]

((

I don't really get the point of this. Nations and settlements are lead by rp. And the leaders choose how to rule.

Aaaand, could you please change the blue colored text to something else, it's hard to read(on my screen at least)?

 

 

 

A gm say I don't like that place lets burn it to the ground? Doesn't sound very good to me. :S

))

Thank you for your feedback. Allow me to explain why I believe this to be necessary:

-Nations in Anthos aren't as immersive as they could be, and this aims to fix it

-This prevents any conflicts that end up with many nations. Seeing as we are moving to 1 nation per race in 4.0, this would help move people towards that goal by making it difficult for a nation to be founded

-Primarily, this aims to make it more clear why a nation exists, in order to make it clear to players what their RP is like- an example (not necessarily a good one) is the Hobbits, who have made it clear that they prefer hilarious RP to serious RP, making it clear who will enjoy being a member of Lenfarthing

-Also primarily, this aims to make war between less nations, so that we can advance towards the goal set by the GM's, in which the races more or less collaborate against a common antagonist

-

[Esterlen 4499]

((Autocracy is the most efficient form of government lol

 

This whole thing is pretty outlandish. I'm just glad it's RP and not an OOC proposal to the staff.))

[The Best Basileus 97]

I don't agree with these suggestions on many accounts, including realism, freedom of roleplay, and, frankly, the "get everybody involved" idea...  There is no way a medieval, feudal government could exert this kind of centralized control within its own borders. There is very little chance that a UN-like pseudo-government would be able to exert any influence at all in the small time it was active before being dismantled by an overzealous dictator. If these proposals are to be forced, I would disagree on principle with that. I do not think there should be much restriction on the freedom to rp what we want how we want in Anthos, and for this reason, I would not consider the GM-guild-UN amendment to the original text. Finally, I'm not sure I really even agree with the premise of a large part of this, that is, that everybody should be involved. If most people are involved in management and government, there won't be anybody to manage, and we will have a bureaucratic version of the Orenian Nobility Quandary. This was written with good intentions, I'm sure, but I really personally don't have much good to say for the premise behind what is written.
 

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

"Nae, nae, NAE! Yeh daft arse'ole. Leaders will run as dey see fit - if 'e needs fifteh layers uv bureaucracy to run 'is government, let 'im make it. Ef 'e is guud, strong leader an' can do it all 'imself let 'im."

[domainoft 191]

If you can get the Orcs to agree to cooperate with all the other nations and hold hands, I'll stand behind this.

 

*Smiles to herself at such a notion.

 

Perhaps you should spend a little more time reading about our history, and how the leadership of nations has changed over the years.

[Aislin 4354]

Gronkk eats the note. He wants no part in this.

[Heff 2460]

As many have stated before it is up to the leaders rply to control their nation. Take the halflings for example. They don't have a military force (except the sherrif and deputies + swarms of tiny people). Its up to everyone to govern their nation... not ooc rules.