[Bug & Feedback] Horse Breeding

[MamaBearJade 2090]

If GMs didn't have to oversee every time someone decided to rename an item or breed an animal, they could work on watching players and stomping out powergaming and foul play in RP. There would be less ban reports, less arguing, and therefore less turbulence on the server.

 

The GMs have never had a problem telling me hold on when they had another modreq to do. Breeders are patient (most of us) and will be kind in waiting. If I can wait 24 hours for regioning to be done, I can wait for horses to be bred. It gave some of us purpose and kept rp flowing.

[Yoff 328]

If GMs didn't have to oversee every time someone decided to rename an item or breed an animal, they could work on watching players and stomping out powergaming and foul play in RP. There would be less ban reports, less arguing, and therefore less turbulence on the server.

 

Seriously, where are all these ban reports everyone keeps mentioning? There's maybe one or two black sheep but really, that's about it.

[Samsan99 274]

Wouldn't it of just been better having it still set at two weeks for the reasons that it was in the first place and leave the 100% breed rates just having the time limiting you?

[MamaBearJade 2090]

Wouldn't it of just been better having it still set at two weeks for the reasons that it was in the first place and leave the 100% breed rates just having the time limiting you?

 

please? can we?

[DecoLamb 959]

I'm very tempted to hand out the idea I worked on with Sky to see how many people support it. Then again GMs want to lessen the so called workload.

 

If GMs didn't have to oversee every time someone decided to rename an item or breed an animal, they could work on watching players and stomping out powergaming and foul play in RP. There would be less ban reports, less arguing, and therefore less turbulence on the server.

 

What reports? I barely see any. I remember when there was always a page of them going, now there's rarely more than five, even after a war or other pvp event. I'm even looking at the ban report page in another tab. There's three. THREE. That's a lot less than there used to be, and the last one was only written over two weeks ago.

 

I'm going to make one more quick reply before bed, then. Honestly, I see where you are coming from, and I am sorry your enjoyable enterprise was taken from you. Honestly, I am, because I work tirelessly do to the exact opposite from reducing server enjoyment.  But it does not change the fact that not every single dedicated craftsperson can be regulated manually.

 

Furthermore, yes, automation is going to happen in more areas than one, and before long we will also see a system that automates the rewarding of active stable holders. Until then. you will have to roleplay for the sake of roleplay  Take a page out of Lark's book, who roleplays a dedicated blacksmith despite every tool with a workbench being able to make their own armor. Domainoft, playing a scribe, rewriting book after book manually and basically never making a good revenue. These people have been able to roleplay their craft, and enjoy it, without any preferential treatment and GM interference. I hope that you also will be able to adapt.

 

I could continue to roleplay just to roleplay. I could go on for hours on my own, and basically just write up a story. I can just give up on trying to change something that the people who actually breed don't like. Or I can say no and fight for something I personally think should be changed. I don't want to take a page from Lark. I don't want to take a page from Domainoft. I want to write my own. And honestly? I think that not everyone should be able to do everything. I think Lark should have the skills program so that he gets more RP more often. I think there should be a library thread of sorts for Domainoft, and other extensive scribes, to post in. So that those who love to read but hate only getting two sentences per page out of his books.

 

I could just give up, roll over, and attempt to adapt. Or I can keep fighting for something. I don't have to give up like others have. In fact, I absolutely refuse to.

[Cappy 1599]

Our aim is to reduce player reliance on GMs - we don't believe you should require a GM for any of your day-to-day role-play in LotC. GMs should be there to sort out issues and rulebreaking and to moderate, not to personally oversee your role-play to ensure it's up to par. I personally believe players deserve the trust to role-play something like this without a complicated system and a GM looking over your shoulder.

So horses and breeding aren't exclusive any more - they never should have been, in my opinion. As has been brought to light in this thread it's still expensive to breed them so not everyone and their dog will be breeding them, but I believe horses should be far less exclusive than they were.

Besides, Deco, if the enjoyment of your role-play only comes because of the fact others can't do it, that's very selfish reasoning for wanting to keep it restricted. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from running a stable, and nothing has been done to reduce your character's value. We aren't a realism simulator, requiring everyone to take utmost care of their horses; feed and groom them, exercise and shoe them - no. We are a Minecraft role-playing server, and if you came to a Minecraft server not wanting or expecting to play Minecraft then you're in for an unpleasant surprise.

[ski_king3 0]

Our aim is to reduce player reliance on GMs - we don't believe you should require a GM for any of your day-to-day role-play in LotC. GMs should be there to sort out issues and rulebreaking and to moderate, not to personally oversee your role-play to ensure it's up to par. I personally believe players deserve the trust to role-play something like this without a complicated system and a GM looking over your shoulder.

So horses and breeding aren't exclusive any more - they never should have been, in my opinion. As has been brought to light in this thread it's still expensive to breed them so not everyone and their dog will be breeding them, but I believe horses should be far less exclusive than they were.

Besides, Deco, if the enjoyment of your role-play only comes because of the fact others can't do it, that's very selfish reasoning for wanting to keep it restricted. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from running a stable, and nothing has been done to reduce your character's value. We aren't a realism simulator, requiring everyone to take utmost care of their horses; feed and groom them, exercise and shoe them - no. We are a Minecraft role-playing server, and if you came to a Minecraft server not wanting or expecting to play Minecraft then you're in for an unpleasant surprise.

 

Oh how I love you so, Master Cappy!

[DecoLamb 959]

Our aim is to reduce player reliance on GMs - we don't believe you should require a GM for any of your day-to-day role-play in LotC. GMs should be there to sort out issues and rulebreaking and to moderate, not to personally oversee your role-play to ensure it's up to par. I personally believe players deserve the trust to role-play something like this without a complicated system and a GM looking over your shoulder.

So horses and breeding aren't exclusive any more - they never should have been, in my opinion. As has been brought to light in this thread it's still expensive to breed them so not everyone and their dog will be breeding them, but I believe horses should be far less exclusive than they were.

Besides, Deco, if the enjoyment of your role-play only comes because of the fact others can't do it, that's very selfish reasoning for wanting to keep it restricted. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from running a stable, and nothing has been done to reduce your character's value. We aren't a realism simulator, requiring everyone to take utmost care of their horses; feed and groom them, exercise and shoe them - no. We are a Minecraft role-playing server, and if you came to a Minecraft server not wanting or expecting to play Minecraft then you're in for an unpleasant surprise.

 

I'm selfish for wanting there to be something special about being a breeder? With that sort of thinking, we should eliminate magic apps, villan apps, and a lot of the plugins we have.

 

My roleplay doesn't come from the inability of others doing it. My roleplay comes from the fact that you actually have to put in a little effort with the old system. My roleplay comes from the fact that you can't just build up a massive herd in a box without a care. My roleplay comes from the same place as mages and villans, of high-ranking political players. My roleplay comes from the fact that effort equals reward, and satisfaction of hard work paying off.

 

My roleplay comes from the fact that I don't play easy mode.

 

If I lost all my mina, my stable, everything. I would be fine with it. It would take effort to work back up to where I was. I would have the roleplay of having to find a way to make money again in order to buy a breeding pair from someone else. I would have to find land, find a way to pay for it. Find and pay for materials, builders. I would have to find stablehands again, I have to provide them with RP to keep them there. I have to have enough mina myself to pay them. I have to put in effort. At the end of the day, I have the fruits of my labor. I have the honor in I worked hard to get where I am. I busted my rear to make the climb, to grind up what I had. I sought out everything I needed, bartering for leather, iron, gold, carrots, apples, wheat, wood, clay.

 

My rp is just like the precious little frost witches, who had to put in an app, prove their worth. Who have something they had to work to earn. Put effort into. So I'm selfish for actually wanting to be rewarded for working hard. Okay. I'm cool with that. I'll be selfish all day and night, because I didn't give up on the work. I won't give up like others have. I'm going to keep clawing my way through the muck and mire.

 

I'm not saying, make a breeder application. I'm not saying only five people should be allowed to be a breeder. Everyone can be a breeder, I encourage people to try and be one. But I'm sick of people digging a hole in the ground and calling that a stable. I'm sick of people mashing 20 horses in a 5x5 wood box and calling that stable RP. I'm sick of people not even talking business, but conducting it in PMs for the sole want of Mina. I'm sick of people being handed things for no effort. I'm sick of people who don't try to fix what is broken, but fuddle about with what inst.

 

I came here for roleplay, using minecraft as a medium. I didn't come for minecraft itself. Minecraft isn't what lotc was about ages ago. It was about story, effort, and working hard to shine. LOTC is Blundermore, who has been here for so long, and is known as the best mage around because he put in the effort. LOTC is Mogroka, who started as nothing but a raider and become the best and most famous of the orcs. LOTC is about Urara, who wrote piles and piles of lore and became known as the most respected feorc to exist. LOTC is about Kjell who was so prolific in his work with the dwarves he has edicts named after him. LOTC is about Xerdun, who worked tirelessly for months to create a new race, one that permanently altered the perspective of racial lore. LOTC is about Rilath, the birthfather of shade magic.

 

LOTC is about making something special, something unique. Its about working hard to develop something fantastic. Its not about giving everyone easy access to anything and everything. So you have a handful more modreqs. Sky has handled at least one hundred modreqs in his first week, and is far more than willing to take over the system. There are plenty of players out there, ready, willing and able to assist you veteran GMs and take away the brunt of modreqs. They are ready and want to be modreq monkeys. They want to help, they want to work. They want to earn the reward and respect of the community too. They can help with this system while veterans are oh so busy taking care of bans and complicated events. They want to be active. They want to make LOTC better. Want to push LOTC back to the good parts of Aegis, where everyone was active and creative.

 

So I'm selfish. That's okay. I'm going to be selfish as I drive my claws deeper into these meaningless pixels and try to make LOTC like it used to be.

[Sporadic 2844]

Sporadic, no offense, but if that is so, you have the rates waaaayyyy too rare.

 

http://gyazo.com/2bcff9325f1a7640e41d10246f0a705e

 

Eleven tries. ELEVEN. On ONE horse. It is far too rare. You need to either get rid of this or make the breeding rates far more common.

 

Well, I'll talk to the GMs about it. But remember that slackened breeding rates lead to an equal amount of complaints from people who want horses to be a luxury item for nobility, emulating Medieval Europe. Perhaps I will make breeding easier for donkeys, although that requires code and not just a switch of a config node.

 

However, if you'll allow it, I want to see this in action for a while. If nothing else, it will drain the economy of the surplus of gold we have, considering it has no uses otherwise.

[Lykos 276]

I personally think Deco's stable rp is f*cking great. And it is just that- RP. Rp, where some players could have, and have indeed treated the situation as an ooc situation.

 

I also personally believe that if someone wants to take the idea of making a horse stable and makes a huge farce out of it, with minimal or lackluster rp, including the rp behind how one spontaneously buys, builds, and maintains a stable, it's their own damned problem... And that it should be treated as just that- a problem.

 

In my mind, this is just like having someone be a master warrior. You do not spontaneously become a master warrior. It takes a lot of rp leading up to the title, as well as a lot of rp to maintain it. And if you're bad at it and don't know how to act like one, it'll turn out that a lot of people around you will be pretty damn upset. And yeah, anyone CAN be a master warrior, but should everyone and their mother be one? History has taught me that that situation can get everyone involved, and even people who aren't, really, REALLY pissed off.

 

It's nearly 6am and I havnt slept yet... So... Potato.

[Tsuyose 3285]

I personally think Deco's stable rp is f*cking great. And it is just that- RP. Rp, where some players could have, and have indeed treated the situation as an ooc situation.

 

I also personally believe that if someone wants to take the idea of making a horse stable and makes a huge farce out of it, with minimal or lackluster rp, including the rp behind how one spontaneously buys, builds, and maintains a stable, it's their own damned problem... And that it should be treated as just that- a problem.

[Cappy 1599]

-snip-

I applaud your writing skills, Deco. I really do.

But you seem to have taken a tangent and just gone off on it. I'm not sure what you want me to say - what's special about LotC is what you make and how it affects the world. What we're doing is loosening restrictions - something players have been asking for for a long time now. I personally am tired of all the GM reliance on LotC - I want players to be able to role-play without calling in a GM every 10 minute to do this or that. That's not because there's too much work - to the contrary I sit on LotC for hours every Australian evening and see maybe a half-dozen modreqs the entire night.

I would love more to do, but I don't believe that the way to do that is artificially create more for GMs to do by restricting things. You can build a stable, you can hire farmhands, you can do everything you've been doing just like before. The only difference is now you don't need to rely on GMs and making a modreq and waiting for it to be answered - you can just do it. And if someone does go and dig out a 5x5 hole in the ground and starts breeding horses in there - so what? How does that affect your role-play at all? Why do you feel affected by people mashing 20 horses into a small stable? Why are you so concerned with what other players are doing?. Your RP is yours - not someone else's, and theirs is not yours. It's a fantastic thing to take pride in what you do and by all means continue it, but don't jeopardise others' role-play just because it doesn't meet up to your arbitrary standards.

We don't demand everyone role-play to a high degree of realism. We don't require players to be exceptional role-players either. Some players might just want to set up a stable - good for them. If you're so concerned with others role-playing running a stable badly, step in and give them a hand rather than complaining it and trying to disallow them from running a stable. And if they don't want your help - that's fine. Their loss. But that's absolutely no reason to try and restrict something so that only you and those who you judge can 'RP it properly' can do it.

LotC is not about you and what you want. LotC is about players enjoying a hybrid Minecraft-RP experience. LotC is about writing your character's stories with others. LotC is not about who can role-play a stable better.

PS: I really want VAs and MAs and a bunch of our current plugins all gone.

[Sporadic 2844]

Tell you what: Breeding is so resource-intensive at current times that it is difficult to be a successful breeder on your own terms. Until this is changed, why don't you petition a GM, show him/her your stable and all your efforts, and in return you get a chestful of golden carrots which you can use to breed happily while others run out of money almost instantly.

 

It's a compromise. I'm not saying I necessarily encourage the compromise, just that it is indeed a compromise and it would indeed fulfil the desired purpose. Because honestly, I don't assess the chances of mechanical breeding being once more removed as particularly large.

[Cappy 1599]

Tell you what: Breeding is so resource-intensive at current times that it is difficult to be a successful breeder on your own terms. Until this is changed, why don't you petition a GM, show him/her your stable and all your efforts, and in return you get a chestful of golden carrots which you can use to breed happily while others run out of money almost instantly.

 

It's a compromise. I'm not saying I necessarily encourage the compromise, just that it is indeed a compromise and it would indeed fulfil the desired purpose. Because honestly, I don't assess the chances of mechanical breeding being once more removed as particularly large.

I like this idea, and I think it's a fair compromise to give those already established stables and GM-approved stabled a head-start.

[DecoLamb 959]

@Sporadic I don't want other players to run out of money instantly. I already have more than enough gold because I would send out the stablehands to farm it for me from leaves and mobs in the wild. They used that as a medium to pay off a horse they couldn't afford with mina. Or they would basically sit there and talk to me, and I rewarded them playing with me a few hours with a horse.

 

@Cappy.. Your post, boiled down from my perspective, comes down to “being passionate about something you care about is bad”. Why shouldn't I care about other roleplayers? They're part of this server just like me. What I do with my stable could and should affect others. Who I sell to affects them. Who i refuse to sell to affects them. What affects them affects their friends. My rp with one dwarf selling him a horse led to him bringing his three friends to rp with me and buy. My rp with Khel led to his clan coming to rp with me on their own. None of Khel's clan has paid for a horse in anything but more RP.

 

I kind of like the compromise, but that really doesn't do much to change the way the system is being done. The system is the problem. I applaud coders, they put in a lot of effort to learn how to make these plugins. I like that you're trying to make it so that there's less use of GMs. But the old system was working just fine. It didn't need any real alteration except small restrictions to make it more RP. This is supposed to be a roleplay server. People came here not for the minecraft, but for the roleplay. I keep coming back to LOTC because of the roleplay. In LOTC, the world changes and shift. You don't really get that in WoW or Mabinogi or Vindictus, or any other traditional game. I picked LOTC because its medium allows me to visually affect the world around me. If I didn't care about the visual representation there's thousands of heavy hardcore rp forums I can migrate to.

 

i want to be able to say I was successful because I worked hard at running a stable. I want to have people come to me not for a horse, but for roleplay. I want to sit there and have a chat with someone about a purchase as I cook a snack for them. I want to get to know other people's characters, I use selling them a perfect horse for them and them alone as that medium. I don't want a chestful of carrots when I can get that with a few days of zoned out clicking as I watch TV on the side. I can tell my grinder slave friends to go do it alongside me, and fill up chest after chest of pretty much any material.

 

I don't want mina, I don't want items. I want people to come roleplay. I don't want to have to break another character to try and desperately claw for some. I don't want to have to make another character to try and shoehorn my way into another niche like I have been again and again and again, trying to adapt to a broken system. I'm staying selfish for the sake of making effort, my effort and that of others, something actually valid again.