Why Pay For Art?

[Geo 1415]

Good shout.

[Backup Lago 320]

All employment is paying for time.

 

 

If you want to charge people then charge people, but if you're charging professional fees then people'll expect professional quality (looking at the portfolio you have online you've got that covered) and professional behaviour. And posting block cap forum rants is not professional.

If children offer you worthless ingame stuff, politely tell them that you can't eat that. Don't post a rant up at everyone else at the forums because it tears your professional image down like nothing else. It makes you come across as an amateur, a hobbyist, and that makes people less willing to enter a business arrangement with you, which is what this is. You don't have to work for free, but neither to people have to buy from you.

 

Furthermore, how payment is rendered is an agreement you should make before you start. Don't tell people they should pay up front, demand it as part of the initial arrangment. It's no good asking for money after you've given them a goods because unless they signed a contract what legal weight do you have to chase them down? If you're requesting payment for services then this is a transaction and you should treat it as such. What happens if they're unhappy with the finished work? Agree this beforehand. Be clear from the start and nobody will feel cheated. Communicate well, assume nothing.

If you want to be treated like a professional, present yourself accordingly.

[zaezae 1098]

^ For 15$ an hour, I'd expect someone willing to show up to work as an in-house designer. Big boy money requires big boy work.

 

I mean, it sounds like you need to become a real employed professional. It's really the only way you can make a living. Because personally speaking, if I'm paying a wage, I don't want to hear any complaints even if I change my mind literally fifteen times in one day. Especially for fifteen dollars an hour

[Ford 1996]

Nobody cares, Archie.

Hey that's not a very nice thing to say, friend! Please watch the hostile tone!

[Space 2335]

^ For 15$ an hour, I'd expect someone willing to show up to work as an in-house designer. Big boy money requires big boy work.

 

I mean, it sounds like you need to become a real employed professional. It's really the only way you can make a living. Because personally speaking, if I'm paying a wage, I don't want to hear any complaints even if I change my mind literally fifteen times in one day. Especially for fifteen dollars an hour

 

15 dollars an hour is like, just above livable wage, come on. That's not 'in-house designer' big bucks.

[Shalashask 1112]

 

FOR FURTHER READING ON THIS SUBJECT:

 

http://www.artistdaily.com/blogs/theartistslife/archive/2009/12/18/a-simple-formula-for-pricing-artwork.aspx

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eva-claudia-schweitzer/ten-reasons-artists-and-a_b_4143370.html

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-reasons-why-artists-deserve-katie-flowers

 

>Huffington post

 

 

Good bait but you fell at the last hurdle 

[zaezae 1098]

15 dollars an hour is like, just above livable wage, come on. That's not 'in-house designer' big bucks.

 

Uh, 15$ is big boy pay, not big bucks. I didn't say it was lavish living, but it isn't a noobish high-schooler pay either. I mean it doesn't matter. What matters is how much value I place on the product. Nothing else. Like-wise, you determine how much your product is worth. I don't ask for free art from strangers anyway, and I don't expect a 'yes' from friends. I do believe this is all rather dramatic. Should I throw a fit if a friend asks me to look at their computer? I mean, I understand the frustration and all, but i find it misplaced. 

 

EDIT: The point is, yes an artist has a right to demand payment for something they produce. However, people asking for something isn't cause for outrage. After all, how many times have you asked for pixels? Whatever someone has given you, that took some time. Every favor you've asked a friend took some of their time. Just say no.

[SMaddieM 105]

^ For 15$ an hour, I'd expect someone willing to show up to work as an in-house designer. Big boy money requires big boy work.

 

I mean, it sounds like you need to become a real employed professional. It's really the only way you can make a living. Because personally speaking, if I'm paying a wage, I don't want to hear any complaints even if I change my mind literally fifteen times in one day. Especially for fifteen dollars an hour

 

 

15 dollars an hour is like, just above livable wage, come on. That's not 'in-house designer' big bucks.

 

 

Uh, 15$ is big boy pay, not big bucks. I didn't say it was lavish living, but it isn't a noobish high-schooler pay either. I mean it doesn't matter. What matters is how much value I place on the product. Nothing else. Like-wise, you determine how much your product is worth. I don't ask for free art from strangers anyway, and I don't expect a 'yes' from friends. I do believe this is all rather dramatic. Should I throw a fit if a friend asks me to look at their computer? I mean, I understand the frustration and all, but i find it misplaced. 

 

EDIT: The point is, yes an artist has a right to demand payment for something they produce. However, people asking for something isn't cause for outrage. After all, how many times have you asked for pixels? Whatever someone has given you, that took some time. Every favor you've asked a friend took some of their time. Just say no.

 

 

$15 is -just- above living wage. A starting position at a company pays around $15-18 an hour. I don't live on big bucks. Or even big boy pay. This is still small-fry pay. If I wanted big boy pay then I'd be asking for $22 /hr. Professional pay is around $28+.

 

An in-house designer is usually paid around $75,000 /year.

 

I'm no where near that level yet. I'm not asking that much. I charge very reasonably, taking into consideration my time, talent, and costs.

[zaezae 1098]

$15 is -just- above living wage. A starting position at a company pays around $15-18 an hour. I don't live on big bucks. Or even big boy pay. This is still small-fry pay. If I wanted big boy pay then I'd be asking for $22 /hr. Professional pay is around $28+.

 

An in-house designer is usually paid around $75,000 /year.

 

I'm no where near that level yet. I'm not asking that much. I charge very reasonably, taking into consideration my time, talent, and costs.

If you get paid 15 for starting out with a company. You have a real adult job. That's literally what I meant.

 

Look, if you value your work at the same amount that I value my work it takes to pay you, I might consider it. But you really need to try and get a real job as soon as possible. I'm part time in my career and still in school. I'm only making 12.50 but I don't even have a degree so...it's better than fast food.

 

EDIT: That came off as condescending. It's just, to be honest, I was a little distressed that you sounded upset as much as you did about moeny. I'm sorry.

[SMaddieM 105]

All employment is paying for time.

 

 

If you want to charge people then charge people, but if you're charging professional fees then people'll expect professional quality (looking at the portfolio you have online you've got that covered) and professional behaviour. And posting block cap forum rants is not professional.

If children offer you worthless ingame stuff, politely tell them that you can't eat that. Don't post a rant up at everyone else at the forums because it tears your professional image down like nothing else. It makes you come across as an amateur, a hobbyist, and that makes people less willing to enter a business arrangement with you, which is what this is. You don't have to work for free, but neither to people have to buy from you.

 

Furthermore, how payment is rendered is an agreement you should make before you start. Don't tell people they should pay up front, demand it as part of the initial arrangment. It's no good asking for money after you've given them a goods because unless they signed a contract what legal weight do you have to chase them down? If you're requesting payment for services then this is a transaction and you should treat it as such. What happens if they're unhappy with the finished work? Agree this beforehand. Be clear from the start and nobody will feel cheated. Communicate well, assume nothing.

If you want to be treated like a professional, present yourself accordingly.

 

 

I do turn them down politely. When they get upset about being turned down and begin sassing me and telling me how I should run my commissions, that's what gets irritating. It isn't just one or two here or there. It's constant.

 

This is not a professional forum. These are not professional children. I am not a suit-wearing drone who will exist in professional mode only when I'm playing a game for fun. I'm a human. I deserve a right to leisure time and a full range of emotions.

 

My post is formatted to catch attention and highlight details with CAPS, colors, and bold lettering so that the kiddies who do regular here might gleam something even from just scanning it over for 3 seconds.

 

It is not intended to be some kind of PSA or professional letter to the public. Don't berate me for throwing a bit of flare into my posts. It's not a serious sit down grump-talk. That's the point. I know nobody will take it seriously. I'm not naive. I'm aware that most of the views that click this thread will never leave the first page or even get past the initial post.

 

It is an issue, however, when kids get it in their heads that it's okay to pester and harass an artist for turning their payment offer down.

 

None of them seem to know just how much living costs as an artist. They don't value art at all. This post was just to flash it out there for some to see. As far as I'm concerned, if it keeps getting views, even if only 30% of them are genuine reads, then my goal has been met.

 

Again, it's not meant to be taken as professional criticism or commentary. So it isn't written like professional commentary.

 

I used the word 'should' for paying upfront because I know some artists who work under different circumstances. I personally do demand upfront payment. I'm not going to waste 7 hours of my life making art for someone to just take it and then refuse to pay me for it.

 

I get a constant parade of offers from all sorts of video games, even games I don't own or play. I do turn folks down politely. What annoys me is when they continue the conversation and harass me about it afterwards, when all I want to do is get back to doing whatever it was I was working on before they messaged me.

[zaezae 1098]

Heh, down payments are interesting. Cause I'm not gonna dump seven hours of pay on someone to not receive something/something that's simply not good enough.

 

I usually ask to split the risk, half now, half later.

[SMaddieM 105]

If you get paid 15 for starting out with a company. You have a real adult job. That's literally what I meant.

 

Look, if you value your work at the same amount that I value my work it takes to pay you, I might consider it. But you really need to try and get a real job as soon as possible. I'm part time in my career and still in school. I'm only making 12.50 but I don't even have a degree so...it's better than fast food.

 

EDIT: That came off as condescending. It's just, to be honest, I was a little distressed that you sounded upset as much as you did about moeny. I'm sorry.

 

Do you... Think that I am not looking for a job?

It just sounds a bit like you think I'm trying to go full-on freelance. I'm not.

 

Even if I had a part time job, I wouldn't charge any less for my commissions. The art and my time spent working on them is still the same value, regardless if I have a job or not.

 

I am a bit stressed about finances. Yes. So when I get a flood of emails and whatnot for commissions, then it turns out to not be for real money and it also turns into kids screaming at me demanding I accept their game-money as payment, it's a bit of a crushing moment. Hopes up, hopes down, hopes kicked.

 

I have one degree, I'm working on a second, plus I've got an unpaid internship that's occupying a lot of my time.

I'm on my way to the job field. I just need some support to make it through in the meantime- thus commissions.

 

But I didn't want this post to glue to me personally, I'm trying to make a point about paying artists in general. We work hard. We deserve to be able to buy food and continue living.

[SMaddieM 105]

Heh, down payments are interesting. Cause I'm not gonna dump seven hours of pay on someone to not receive something/something that's simply not good enough.

 

I usually ask to split the risk, half now, half later.

 

That's kind of the whole point of initial prices and down payments. A down payment isn't the full cost. It's like an insurance that even if the client doesn't like the finished product, you still got paid for spending time on it at least. Those hours don't just evaporate into nothingness.

[Genevieveee 234]

I charge $10 for my fullbody, fully colored things, that take 4 hours on average.

Then again i'm just a child and I don't need living expenses yet..

Sounds intimidating, this "adulthood".

[Ford 1996]

Can you please give us an example of your artwork?