Your View: TA changes.

[AlmondTree 418]

Because under this rule a Druid who teaches Communion, Blight Healing and Control and also possesses the secret of Shapeshifting cannot teach a Druid.  Shapeshifting in particular is a very closely guarded secret and those who shapeshift become a teacher of it.

 

Is there really a need for a druid to know all these druid magics? Why can you not divide it and once more, not hoard.

[Song Druid 1486]

We are not interested in spreading knowledge.  We are interested in containing it.  We don't care what everyone else wants.  It doesn't matter.

[AlmondTree 418]

As said before, it will simply make people pick one certain magic. More people will pick said magic because it is popular, and fewer people will pick the more obscure, less popular magics. This, in turn, makes it so there are fewer teachers. Fewer of anything makes it closer to a clique than not. 

Look at blood magic though, recovering pretty good at the moment because..effort.

[Katherine1 362]

Surely you don't seriously expect the Druids to go along with this farce.  Magical cliques? What?  Once again the MAT tries to trudge on something the Druids have had no problem with in 4 years.  

How is this a problem for you druids? Just don't shoo away people that comes and wants to learn and you are fine. Allow for teachers to be made as well. It's only an internal problem if it doesn't work, not MAT.

For any small magic group this will be an issue. People who become teachers need to be in the subtype long enough to know the magic inside and out. For druids, that's a significant time investment. Not everyone wants to teach, and of those who do, not all of them have trained up enough to be able to teach any of the magic. What this means is that effectively, magic teaching is restricted to a subset of a subset of members. (This should hold true to all magic, come to think of it.) By restricting the number of subtypes a teacher can teach, it can hamper our ability to teach certain subtypes for people on at certain timezones. (Just having guides to teach dedicants druid culture and stuff during any timezone a dedicant might be in can be challenging at times, and that doesn't even have the restrictions magic teaching does. )

At times we've had 40 active members, of those maybe 10 want to teach, and of those only less have trained up enough to even get a TA. We need to be able to teach our magic, arbitrary limits on our ability to teach makes no sense, and worse, harms our ability to train up new teachers.

[Song Druid 1486]

The Druids have always maintained a very good grip on how they teach and distribute their magic, as well as self-accountability when the magic is misused.   This is why there are so few instances of true Druid Powergaming (outside of the whiners because of the strength of the magic).   Once again the MAT tries a new genius idea to try to justify its existence and as every time this has been tried we are standing our ground.  To take words from Mogroka in Aegis (before he went crazy with the humans and was head of the Orcs), the staff can **** off and let the players dictate their lore.  We're doing fine, appreciate it!

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Because under this rule a Druid who teaches Communion, Blight Healing and Control and also possesses the secret of Shapeshifting cannot teach a Druid.  Shapeshifting in particular is a very closely guarded secret and those who shapeshift become a teacher of it.

 

Is there really a need for a druid to know all these druid magics? Why can you not divide it and once more, not hoard.

A druid HAS to be able to teach Communion, meaning they have one more slot for teaching. If my character wanted to pass on shapeshifting, I would have to drop being able to teach Blight Healing because of OOC reasons. That means I won't be able to share the knowledge of Blight Healing with any more people.

Also, druids have more members than pretty much all of the other holy magic users combined.

This ruling will not help get rid of cliques, magic-hoarding, or min-maxing, it will make these things more prevalent. For example, ski_king's character right now knows Water Evocation, Voidal Shifting, and Golemancy. Water Evocation is the most useful in combat, but also the most widespread. Voidal Shifting and Golemancy don't have nearly as members, and quite a few less teachers. He'll have to choose between passing on an extremely rare magic that is basically locked to the high elves right now (Voidal Shifting) and another rare magic that is locked to dwarves and high elves (Golemancy). One of those magics is going to remain rare. One of them will remain a clique, a hoarded magic, and something that will be almost impossible for people to find a teacher for.

[Katherine1 362]

Because under this rule a Druid who teaches Communion, Blight Healing and Control and also possesses the secret of Shapeshifting cannot teach a Druid.  Shapeshifting in particular is a very closely guarded secret and those who shapeshift become a teacher of it.

 

Is there really a need for a druid to know all these druid magics? Why can you not divide it and once more, not hoard.

Let's take Nature's Healing as an example. It requires knowing the subtypes of Communion and Control of Nature to learn. Why? Because they are fundamental to how the magic works. Communion is fundamental to all druid magic, and you can't be better at any druid subtype than you can be at Communion. Control is required because Nature's Healing builds off of what you do in that to perform some far more specialized tasks. Does it make any sense for a Nature's Healing teacher to be unable to teach the prerequisites to the magic?

[AlmondTree 418]

 

For any small magic group this will be an issue. People who become teachers need to be in the subtype long enough to know the magic inside and out. For druids, that's a significant time investment. Not everyone wants to teach, and of those who do, not all of them have trained up enough to be able to teach any of the magic. What this means is that effectively, magic teaching is restricted to a subset of a subset of members. (This should hold true to all magic, come to think of it.) By restricting the number of subtypes a teacher can teach, it can hamper our ability to teach certain subtypes for people on at certain timezones. (Just having guides to teach dedicants druid culture and stuff during any timezone a dedicant might be in can be challenging at times, and that doesn't even have the restrictions magic teaching does. )

At times we've had 40 active members, of those maybe 10 want to teach, and of those only less have trained up enough to even get a TA. We need to be able to teach our magic, arbitrary limits on our ability to teach makes no sense, and worse, harms our ability to train up new teachers.

This is an internal issue still and with this mentality:

We are not interested in spreading knowledge.  We are interested in containing it.  We don't care what everyone else wants.  It doesn't matter.

I understand why.

A druid HAS to be able to teach Communion, meaning they have one more slot for teaching. If my character wanted to pass on shapeshifting, I would have to drop being able to teach Blight Healing because of OOC reasons. That means I won't be able to share the knowledge of Blight Healing with any more people.

Also, druids have more members than pretty much all of the other holy magic users combined.

This ruling will not help get rid of cliques, magic-hoarding, or min-maxing, it will make these things more prevalent. For example, ski_king's character right now knows Water Evocation, Voidal Shifting, and Golemancy. Water Evocation is the most useful in combat, but also the most widespread. Voidal Shifting and Golemancy don't have nearly as members, and quite a few less teachers. He'll have to choose between passing on an extremely rare magic that is basically locked to the high elves right now (Voidal Shifting) and another rare magic that is locked to dwarves and high elves (Golemancy). One of those magics is going to remain rare. One of them will remain a clique, a hoarded magic, and something that will be almost impossible for people to find a teacher for.

Then clearly the DRUID system is a bit flawed if Communion is not included in every type if it now is the fundamentals? What am I not seeing here? 

 

About Ski's situation yes it is unfortunate but hence why I proposed the 2 combat/whatever and one support magic and you could teach all of them. Not much to say here other than it's a shame it happened but this change is needed to stop people from having a hundred magics for every situation possible. Make more teachers not the amount of magics you have.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

You're already limited to 5 magics, no one is going around with '100s'.

[Song Druid 1486]

The system is only "flawed" when attempting to force it into some existing guidelines outside of what already exists.  We do not want the magic spread out far and wide because it is strong in the wrong hands.   It is a closed Order and it has a strong culture established in Lore.  It isn't changing.

[AlmondTree 418]

You're already limited to 5 magics, no one is going around with '100s'.

It was an example of course.

The system is only "flawed" when attempting to force it into some existing guidelines outside of what already exists.  We do not want the magic spread out far and wide because it is strong in the wrong hands.   It is a closed Order and it has a strong culture established in Lore.  It isn't changing.

I'm going to use you as an example for druids because I think it's perfect. You have every magic that druids can learn as to teach, this is just the example of why it has to be regulated and open up for more teachers to do so, train their students to be better and be able to teach others faster. Just what I am talking about. 

 

Edit: Why can't people devote more time to one or two areas instead of the full package.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

 

For any small magic group this will be an issue. People who become teachers need to be in the subtype long enough to know the magic inside and out. For druids, that's a significant time investment. Not everyone wants to teach, and of those who do, not all of them have trained up enough to be able to teach any of the magic. What this means is that effectively, magic teaching is restricted to a subset of a subset of members. (This should hold true to all magic, come to think of it.) By restricting the number of subtypes a teacher can teach, it can hamper our ability to teach certain subtypes for people on at certain timezones. (Just having guides to teach dedicants druid culture and stuff during any timezone a dedicant might be in can be challenging at times, and that doesn't even have the restrictions magic teaching does. )

At times we've had 40 active members, of those maybe 10 want to teach, and of those only less have trained up enough to even get a TA. We need to be able to teach our magic, arbitrary limits on our ability to teach makes no sense, and worse, harms our ability to train up new teachers.

This is an internal issue still and with this mentality:

We are not interested in spreading knowledge.  We are interested in containing it.  We don't care what everyone else wants.  It doesn't matter.

I understand why.

A druid HAS to be able to teach Communion, meaning they have one more slot for teaching. If my character wanted to pass on shapeshifting, I would have to drop being able to teach Blight Healing because of OOC reasons. That means I won't be able to share the knowledge of Blight Healing with any more people.

Also, druids have more members than pretty much all of the other holy magic users combined.

This ruling will not help get rid of cliques, magic-hoarding, or min-maxing, it will make these things more prevalent. For example, ski_king's character right now knows Water Evocation, Voidal Shifting, and Golemancy. Water Evocation is the most useful in combat, but also the most widespread. Voidal Shifting and Golemancy don't have nearly as members, and quite a few less teachers. He'll have to choose between passing on an extremely rare magic that is basically locked to the high elves right now (Voidal Shifting) and another rare magic that is locked to dwarves and high elves (Golemancy). One of those magics is going to remain rare. One of them will remain a clique, a hoarded magic, and something that will be almost impossible for people to find a teacher for.

Then clearly the DRUID system is a bit flawed if Communion is not included in every type if it now is the fundamentals? What am I not seeing here? 

 

About Ski's situation yes it is unfortunate but hence why I proposed the 2 combat/whatever and one support magic and you could teach all of them. Not much to say here other than it's a shame it happened but this change is needed to stop people from having a hundred magics for every situation possible. Make more teachers not the amount of magics you have.

Sure, druidism is flawed if you attempt to force it to work with a new system that was designed in a way that is incompatible with it.

Your other suggestion would involve the MAT becoming even more restricting than it already is. I don't feel it should be our job to force people to choose certain types of magic.

[Katherine1 362]

 

For any small magic group this will be an issue. People who become teachers need to be in the subtype long enough to know the magic inside and out. For druids, that's a significant time investment. Not everyone wants to teach, and of those who do, not all of them have trained up enough to be able to teach any of the magic. What this means is that effectively, magic teaching is restricted to a subset of a subset of members. (This should hold true to all magic, come to think of it.) By restricting the number of subtypes a teacher can teach, it can hamper our ability to teach certain subtypes for people on at certain timezones. (Just having guides to teach dedicants druid culture and stuff during any timezone a dedicant might be in can be challenging at times, and that doesn't even have the restrictions magic teaching does. )

At times we've had 40 active members, of those maybe 10 want to teach, and of those only less have trained up enough to even get a TA. We need to be able to teach our magic, arbitrary limits on our ability to teach makes no sense, and worse, harms our ability to train up new teachers.

This is an internal issue still and with this mentality:

We are not interested in spreading knowledge.  We are interested in containing it.  We don't care what everyone else wants.  It doesn't matter.

I understand why.

A druid HAS to be able to teach Communion, meaning they have one more slot for teaching. If my character wanted to pass on shapeshifting, I would have to drop being able to teach Blight Healing because of OOC reasons. That means I won't be able to share the knowledge of Blight Healing with any more people.

Also, druids have more members than pretty much all of the other holy magic users combined.

This ruling will not help get rid of cliques, magic-hoarding, or min-maxing, it will make these things more prevalent. For example, ski_king's character right now knows Water Evocation, Voidal Shifting, and Golemancy. Water Evocation is the most useful in combat, but also the most widespread. Voidal Shifting and Golemancy don't have nearly as members, and quite a few less teachers. He'll have to choose between passing on an extremely rare magic that is basically locked to the high elves right now (Voidal Shifting) and another rare magic that is locked to dwarves and high elves (Golemancy). One of those magics is going to remain rare. One of them will remain a clique, a hoarded magic, and something that will be almost impossible for people to find a teacher for.

Then clearly the DRUID system is a bit flawed if Communion is not included in every type if it now is the fundamentals? What am I not seeing here? 

 

About Ski's situation yes it is unfortunate but hence why I proposed the 2 combat/whatever and one support magic and you could teach all of them. Not much to say here other than it's a shame it happened but this change is needed to stop people from having a hundred magics for every situation possible. Make more teachers not the amount of magics you have.

Here is how druid magic works:

To learn the magic, you need to be attuned to the Aspects. This attunement is represented by the Communion subtype. Your Communion is your attunement, you cannot be any better with any druid subtype than your Communion, because you can't have any abilities in excess of the strength of your connection to the Aspects. Communion provides some super basic abilities that form the foundation of the rest of druid magic. Control offers the bread and butter bulk of what druid magic does. You want to grow a tree? This is where that ability comes from. Blight healing and Nature's healing are more specialized, building off the basics learned in learning Control.

This is a very tightly integrated magic with dependencies. In this way, it is unlike other magics, it also means the magic is moreso hurt by rules like this. When a magic is a tightly integrated as this, being unable to teach foundational parts so you can teach the more specialized forms really, really hurts.

[Booklight12 481]

The average player doesn't care or see magic because it's either being done in some remote jerk circle of gms and the other staff  (*cough Paladins and necromancers cough*) I mean it's literally an army of heerozeros who will do anything for magic power and staff power on a minecraft role play server

As a magic RPer, I rarely if ever see magic RP being done outside my own with random folk. Also tbh the more I read this the more I like it. Not necessarily what it is or will be doing, but rather the idea of it. I will use druids for example (No hate I like you all) they have like 4 different magic subtypes in all of druidism and each leader is skilled in the majority of them if they know all four (Including Shadeshifting) now I think people are missing what they are saying, atleast from what i've read in that you guys are saying that a druid must be able to teach communion plus other magics to be a teacher. Though why is that? Being a teacher doesn't mean you are a strongest at something, it just means OOCly you're able to teach it. So the idea of atleast in groups of having different members only being able to teach certain things in a group I do like. So instead of having like 4 or 5 druids who are able to teach all types of the magic. Instead why not have 7 or 8 druids that specialize in certain forms of druidism? Also, why is communion even a subtype. Imo druidism should just be considered one magic in itself (Minus shapeshifting) but being like bnk wants Arcanism to be where you can specialize in the different forms of them. As for other groups of magic users just do similar things. Though this is just an opinion I wanted to express don't hate!

Edited November 25, 2015 by Booklight12

[AlmondTree 418]

 

 

Here is how druid magic works:

To learn the magic, you need to be attuned to the Aspects. This attunement is represented by the Communion subtype. Your Communion is your attunement, you cannot be any better with any druid subtype than your Communion, because you can't have any abilities in excess of the strength of your connection to the Aspects. Communion provides some super basic abilities that form the foundation of the rest of druid magic. Control offers the bread and butter bulk of what druid magic does. You want to grow a tree? This is where that ability comes from. Blight healing and Nature's healing are more specialized, building off the basics learned in learning Control.

This is a very tightly integrated magic with dependencies. In this way, it is unlike other magics, it also means the magic is moreso hurt by rules like this. When a magic is a tightly integrated as this, being unable to teach foundational parts so you can teach the more specialized forms really, really hurts.

So..basically why not have it so that you have communion then you choose a sub type to focus on? If you want to heal then you heal. If you want to blight heal you blight heal. If you wanna be a feral druid with beast dps then you go shapeshifting. I really do not see why you are so fuzzy about it. What Arik or whatever is saying is just plain **** that druids don't want to make more teachers. Then honestly if you put yourself in this spot, deal with it. Simple as that. No point babysitting.

The average player doesn't care or see magic because it's either being done in some remote jerk circle of gms and the other staff  (*cough Paladins and necromancers cough*) I mean it's literally an army of heerozeros who will do anything for magic power and staff power on a minecraft role play server

As a magic RPer, I rarely if ever see magic RP being done outside my own with random folk. Also tbh the more I read this the more I think it over. Not necessarily what it is or will be doing, but rather the idea of it. I will use druids for example (No hate I like you all) they have like 4 different magic subtypes in all of druidism and each leader is skilled in the majority of them if they know all four (Including Shadeshifting) now I think people are missing what they are saying, atleast from what i've read in that you guys are saying that a druid must be able to teach communion plus other magics to be a teacher. Though why is that? Being a teacher doesn't mean you are a strongest at something, it just means OOCly you're able to teach it. So the idea of atleast in groups of having different members only being able to teach certain things in a group I do like. So instead of having like 4 or 5 druids who are able to teach all types of the magic. Instead why not have 7 or 8 druids that specialize in certain forms of druidism? Also, why is communion even a subtype. Imo druidism should just be considered one magic in itself (Minus shapeshifting) but being like bnk wants Arcanism to be where you can specialize in the different forms of them. As for other groups of magic users just do similar things. Though this is just an opinion I wanted to express don't hate!

This is exactly what I am trying to say. Thank you.