One problem with an antagonist now

[mmat 7460]

Pretty simple thing really which Drakehaze's status reignited my thought about, and it's never discussed when speaking of making 'a new antagonist'. I put that in quotation marks because of the singular nature of the phrase 'an antagonist'. It is not just the antagonist itself which creates enjoyment, but the external situation around which the antagonist will thread in.

 

Perhaps, because Aegis was almost a blank slate when it came to player created creatures and lore, the Undead had a mandate to be THE threat. They were the focus of staff and the focus of competence on the server. To an extent, this was true for the 3.0 antagonist as well. By Athera, the creeping accumulation of beast/creature/magic lore had begun to slowly wear down the prospect of any antagonist. This divided focus could have been one of the many factors which caused the resurgent undead to have been such a disaster.

 

Since then, it has accelerated exponentially. Pale knights, Darkstalkers, Liches, Shades, Harbingers, Gravens, Ghosts, Liches, Wraiths, Dreadknights, Azdrazi. These are just a laundry list I can remember off the cuff, I'm sure there are more.

 

This IS a problem for two main reasons:

• Any antagonist will not be the focus of issues, because there are an absolute **** ton of other ''''antagonists'''' distracting attention. Moreover, more individuals are playing ''''''''antagonists'''''''', meaning that there is fewer actual 'good' players to properly roleplay with. Also, staff may play other types of '''antagonist''', making them even less willing to support the main antagonist.
• More players being invested in these dark creatures will obviously make this problem more difficult to solve. Who wants their character altered or wiped out?

 

However good an antagonist is, or not. It will be hampered by this abundance of lore which has accumulated over time. Even when I was roleplaying Azdromoth, I came across another antagonist creature every other RP encounter. I personally support some sort of lore wipe, but that will never happen.

 

Thoughts?

[colovian fur 8360]

lorewipe is the best option, but it wont happen because of people who cry about their shitty lore lol

 

matt i remember rping with you back in hallowvale contracting, you came into our keep all mysterious like as like an old man (i think this was you at least) and it was by far one of my favorite encounters on the server

 

i dont like a forced antagonist, part of what made westerlands so fun for me personally was the fact that we made something our own antagonist. cliche undead storyline was made fun because of just the circumstances surrounding it and why it was an antagonist: a fractured empire led to supply lines being cut to the west, and we were faced with a mounting and endless foe as other wars only added to its troop.

 

making little head cannon stories like that and rolling with them are a lot more fun than a bunch of shitty staff polls asking what antag we're going to get which is ultimately going to be a big disappointment 

[Danny 2232]

I can't help but feel that the restrictions that used to exist on dark / evil roleplay were truly beneficial to both the antagonist experience and also the wider roleplay experience. Whilst the lessening of villainy rules has benefited the server greatly the increasing flexibility with which players can employ truly evil, previously antagonist-exclusive, roleplay techniques has hampered any ability of an antagonist to be successful. As painful as it may be for some player's characters, the boundaries need reintroduced to ensure that there is one, distinct antagonist against which the playerbase can unite and see as such.

 

The entire point in an antagonist is to present itself as a unique, distinct threat to everyone on the server and to employ this threat to create roleplay that can't be found elsewhere. Beyond the nostalgia, the Undead achieved this via their unique status on the server and the fact that they had powers which were beyond that of any player and that they were incredibly difficult to defeat. The idea of an antagonist that makes a player physically **** it both IC and OOC is something that lies at the heart of a successful attempt and it's something we simply aren't providing.

 

I far from advocate the return of the Undead as they were, but bring back some form of Iblees-based / Iblees-following group ran by a staff-player coalition that exclusively exercise antagonist rights - normal players shouldn't have such a status as it is detrimental to the antagonist itself. Ensure that they're very OP so they can't simply be PVP'd, they have lightning and fireball powers along with mob-spawning and destructive ones. Enable them to engage in 1v1 roleplay throughout the world, but at the same time also involve them in server-defining events where players must achieve particular objectives to defeat them. 

 

The reason an antagonist fails is because of a) those behind it and b) the idea behind it. An antagonist needs to relish in its over-powering ability to defeat the playerbase and to instill fear into them. If it lacks these features, it's a failed antagonist. Bring back an antagonist that actually achieves the purpose it exits for, that centralises the community into the center of the map for fear of being fried; that makes people run away for fear of being shredded and killed. Employ the antagonist not solely for roleplay purposes but as the solution for our increasingly dispersed community, as a tool for roleplay consolidation.

 

And for the love of God, don't screw it up and have the world "turning on the players" or a "plague killing the players". That's not an antagonist, that's simply a storyline feature. An antagonist must be what is described above or you're simply not offering one. 

 

EDIT: In my excitement to rant I realised I forgot to address your point re lore Matt. Whilst I don't think lore need necessarily be reset to provide an effective antagonist, it most definitely needs to be shelved to lesser importance and the lore re this antagonist brought to the forefront. This needs done in unison with this enhancement of uniqueness of an antagonist and removal of the playerbase from being able to provide the antagonist experience. Put previous antagonist lore behind us (keep it there but it needn't be central to the current situation) and develop something believable and terrifying for our new 6.0 one.

[mmat 7460]

6 minutes ago, joey calabreeni said:

matt i remember rping with you back in hallowvale contracting, you came into our keep all mysterious like as like an old man (i think this was you at least) and it was by far one of my favorite encounters on the serve

0

r

 

That was indeed me. I was just testing out different types of encounter to see what people liked really. Shady seemed to like it too so that was good.

[colovian fur 8360]

3 minutes ago, Harold said:

 

I will never forget the Kobolds. @joey calabreeni

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some of the most fun i ever had was mundane antagonists like the kobolds

 

through some funny interactions, creativity, and banter: we made our own small stories and characters like kobe the kobold, whom reoccurred. all of this was without staff help, and arguably, a lot better than anything that could've been done given the resources we were given: our imaginations 

[tea with Gwyn 218]

But do we really want a big scary bad guy for us all to be goody-good and unite against? People are always talking about a server antag like it's necessary. We don't need a bad guy, specifically because players can now be the bad guys. I don't see any problems with the way things are now, honestly. I like it.

[argonian 14254]

there are far too many spook races and far too many people playing them. how are we meant to fear them when we see ghouls chill in taverns daily

[drfate786 1690]

The answer is to make the antagonist powerful enough to wipe the current antagonists and their lore off the slate or to the brink of extinction. If Iblees were to return, Mordring would be his first target and so would the "pretenders" called necromancers. He would likely re-enslave the current wraiths and bend them to his will or force all existing undead to side with him in some way.

[Tsuyose 3285]

I really tried to do some form of lore wipe when I was LT, prior to my departure, but it was unfortunately disfavoured by the LT.

[argonian 14254]

1 minute ago, Tsuyose said:

I really tried to do some form of lore wipe when I was LT, prior to my departure, but it was unfortunately disfavoured by the LT.

Lore Team are happy with needlessly retconning the core lore of the server with every new map, but god forbid they get rid of a few superfluous spooks

[drfate786 1690]

1 hour ago, James2k said:

Lore Team are happy with needlessly retconning the core lore of the server with every new map, but god forbid they get rid of a few superfluous spooks

0

 

abc

 

It's because they like their little circlejerks and special characters and hate the idea of wiping most of the magic lore to make way for an antagonist. A lore wipe isn't necessary, just make the antagonist insanely powerful.

[zaezae 1098]

These problems actually extend from nation rp being so weak tbh. 

 

Also, it's ******* crazy that people don't want their entire character and hundreds of hours of roleplay retconned just to let some shitty antag that the same people that whined for lore wipe would then get on the forums to incessently whine about the antag. 

 

Seriously, the lore really doesn't need to be changed (maybe 'forget' unused lore) and people need to get their **** nations together so there will actually be normal characters again.

[Eurielle 1189]

Remember kids

Spook =/= antag

[Lark 2227]

 

 

We should really look at adopting ideas of Dungeons and Dragons into minecraft roleplay.

 

While not all may be applicable, the ideas and creativity that is poured into this medium can be applied to Lord of the Craft with some effort. ESPECIALLY WHEN MAKING BIG BAD EVIL DUDES.

 

If LotCers treated each other as fellow roleplayers at the table and not as people to dominate and win against, the server would be way more fun jus' sayin. 

[ForeverGinger 148]

I dunno.  I feel like the amount of undead-based creature we have isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's more of a different strokes for different folks kinda deal.  We have Necromantic undead (that's ghouls, Liches, darkstalkers, and the like), and we have Mystic undead (Paleknights, Gravens, ghosts, ect).  Because there is really no development skill-wise for players once they choose their path, there needs to be a bit of a menagerie in order to cover all the bases.

 

What I'm trying to say is, with the way things are now, there really have to be multiple spook variants.  Liches have to use magic, and Paleknights have to be warriors.  Once you're locked into a niche, there's no breaking free.