Regarding planned changes to the economy (Nexus 2.0)

[Lojo613 1882]

From what I am seeing on the tech discord, the staff plans to implement another crafting system to “fix” LOTC’s economy. This includes plans for the basic gathering professions which are supposed to have bonuses AND plans for crafting professions which will also provide bonuses. Unfortunately, the staff has once again failed to realize WHY Nexus was so divisive. It wasn’t just that  players would be locked out of vanilla crafting, making the grind to get building blocks a chore, and it wasn’t just that crafting times took 8 HOURS for things like chainmail which I could feasibly rply make in 1 hour. It was the fact that having an economic crafting system which serves to reward IG actions rather than rp activity ultimately promotes an economy where RP is secondary to grind. Making the money “more valuable” by encouraging grind will ultimately diminish the levels of rp on the server as people feel pressed to actually hold a mineman job to be able to do anything. Want to buy a weapon? Should have grinded. Want to build a house? Should have grinded. Want to RP as a smith? Should be grinding. Want to start your own group? Build your  dedicated grind halls. I came back to this server after leaving mid-nexus, and I was so happy to have seen the server return to a pre-Thales state. I’ve spent time building, rping as a smith, decorating, and rping happily. The minas is worthless and doesn’t mean anything because it SHOULDN’T. This isn’t real life, I don’t need to have a job in this game to make sure the world keeps on going. That is not fun, and I personally do not want a second job. I play this server now because it is fun, and is focused on rp. Having flavor plugins is nice, having MMORPG runescape economy plugins that try to force a real world value onto a fake worthless digital currency is not. The money should only have rp value, not real world time sink value. Perhaps have an admin shop which sells certain high demand items if you wish to diminish inflation, or reduce vote money, but this is NOT the route to take. I know the staff believes that by not placing restrictions on Vanilla and building a ladder of progression UP from the base game will make this all great, but it wont, because ultimately there will be those who grind the fastest who are on top, and those who don’t grind from day one on the map who can never find someone to buy their “sub-par”objects because people only want the ones which provide the most MC benefit. How will you be able to buy enough iron and sell enough shitty swords to make it to master when 15 masters already exist because they haven’t showered in a week? You won’t, and Staff isn’t thinking far enough ahead to know that the economy of the server will only stay stable for about a week before any new players who didn’t grind that first week suddenly find themselves unable to hold any crafting job. If this type of system is put in place next map, I am leaving this server permanently. Such a shame considering I had come back only 2 months ago, but I have a real life and cannot hold a second job on minecraft just because someone was upset their fake money didn’t have a lot of real world value.

[nickrocky213 792]

Honestly, I’d wait for any pre-judgement on our “economy fixes” until you see all of the work at play here. If you have any questions feel free to reach out in that discord. This isn’t supposed to be hurr-durr grind all day, heres a new part time job.

[Lojo613 1882]

44 minutes ago, nickrocky213 said:

Honestly, I’d wait for any pre-judgement on our “economy fixes” until you see all of the work at play here. If you have any questions feel free to reach out in that discord. This isn’t supposed to be hurr-durr grind all day, heres a new part time job.

Oh I am sure it won’t be presented as hurr-durr grind. That is never the goal. It just always becomes the result. Instead of implementing crafting systems which promote people to rush a level up, how about implement a FA for the professions more commonly rped, like smith? We all know that grind is good for the server because it draws in people who are more likely to spend all day underground rather than rp which can get boring. So it won’t happen. I am gonna check out the system, and if it is exactly what I am expecting, then I am leaving.

 

What should be done. Make resources rarer, give less vote money so that inflation does not set in as fast, perhaps make certain professions require a FA and TA, like smithing.

What shouldnt be done. Try to reconcile the lack of value of the minas by adding in a time investment which acts as a hurdle to fun and rp in an effort to create a diverse world when there are other methods of wealth distribution that can create just as interesting a world. Flashy mechanical features on a server aren’t what I’m here for. If you want to add some interesting gameplay things, add new systems which add to the game as a whole, not reward grind and create loop gameplay.

[nickrocky213 792]

1 hour ago, Lojo613 said:

What should be done. Make resources rarer, give less vote money so that inflation does not set in as fast, perhaps make certain professions require a FA and TA, like smithing.

What shouldnt be done. Try to reconcile the lack of value of the minas by adding in a time investment which acts as a hurdle to fun and rp in an effort to create a diverse world when there are other methods of wealth distribution that can create just as interesting a world. Flashy mechanical features on a server aren’t what I’m here for. If you want to add some interesting gameplay things, add new systems which add to the game as a whole, not reward grind and create loop gameplay.

I’ll say it again, I believe your judgement is a tad hasty. As for TA’s/FA’s for professions I will guarantee you that this WILL NOT happen. If you have any questions or suggestions you can guide them to us in the discord server

[monkeypoacher 8055]

A crafting system only creates an “economy” as we know it if it forces players to trade for basic needs. Under Nexus you could basically craft anything you’d need for basic roleplay without leveling any professions. In reality if you’re a master blacksmith you can craft a pretty good set of armor, but you might need to hire someone to build you a new door or harvest and prepare food for you to eat. Nexus didn’t acknowledge that, and just let you do basically anything with lvl 1 professions. As a result, Nexus created more of a hierarchy than an economy. 

 

If you want an economy you need some degree of interdependence. People have to want to buy something that other players are selling. That something can be RP items (as it is now), PvP gear (as under Nexus), or basic necessities. I think people trading in basic necessities lends itself well to cooperative roleplaying. Trade creates roleplay. If you need bread to survive you’re going to roleplay with the baker, or if he’s selling through an autoshop you at least need to roleplay with someone to get a job. If you’re a medieval fantasy character you should know your village baker and have a trade. Your adventures should involve provisioning and forethought. The fantasy should stay grounded.

 

An ideal roleplay setting would reward large-scale cooperation between players. The most powerful nations shouldn’t just be the largest, but also the most internally cohesive. Bandit characters should be on the brink of starvation and itinerant blood knights should starve to death. I know it sounds sort of bizarre to add starvation and poverty to a fantasy role-play, but hear me out. The problem with having infinite lives and resources means that the stakes for any drama have to be worse than death, which is hard to do, and encourages players to seek OOC retribution for slights that can’t be redressed in character. Player economies spin out (or kill roleplay) when the most profitable thing to do in the economy is sit in a basement. A motive to interact with players is good for role-play, and should be the goal of an economy plugin. Professions alone won’t add that, but a plugin that makes you unable to craft both armor and a door will.

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1050]

Nexus was adertised initially as a system of buffs to encourage specialization and economy- however the end product was moreso a set of restrictions and far off buffs that, coupled with pvp default, created an economy heavilly dependant on grinding, combat buffs, and bizarre recipes only obtainable through grinding "caskets" (effectively lootboxes). Instead of creating wide-scale interdependence as a means of pushing for rp, it created wide scale cloistering, grinding, rp decisions revolving entirely on ingame mechanics, the wide-scale devalueing  of crafting rp, mass afking (both for crafting times, and for reaching the playtime limits to gain profession slots.) and infinite frustrations for new, and old players alike. 

 

Nexus crafting never encouraged roleplay, it encouraged skype requests for stacks of haybales and boasts of one-shot bows and studded leather armor. Nexus didnt create notable smiths who could tell you how they work a metal, it created endles treadmills of more and more made up metals used by people who couldnt tell a doming hammer from a rasp- that only served as another gateway to have an extra damage percent on a sword or armor piece. Nexus didnt create woodshops and mills , run by astute wood workers and carpenters who did such as a job- it created random wood elf soldiers in all nations (selected due to the exp increase with woodworker and increased bow damage) who spent most of their time doing guard or soldier stuff but would crap out a few thousand compost boxes every once in a while.

Nexus didnt create skilled leather workers who tanned fine leather, and worked it into plenty of viable and interesting crafts, it bred leather burning guards and randos who torched leather like a coalflame in pursuit of nothing meaningful but higher bow damage bonuses.

Nexus didnt create astute stonemasons, who crafted fine works of stone or intrestingly cut gems- it created... stone bricks and stone stairs, and... useles copy-paste gems that every other stonemason could make. But hey- atleast they got to mes with armor later down the line...

Nexus didnt breed rp community and a sense of worth for every player, it created ooc competitions of time investment for top profession XP, where dozens of players would forgo any sort of rp interaction just to keep up the grind and keep climbing the ladder.

Nexus didnt create personable chefs and bakers, toiling away at their bakery to make their honest coin- it created random food boxes in every city, refreshed with food daily by city leaders or guards, that would inevitably expire whether it was used or not, forcing players to waste time clicking away wheat than clicking away at spreadsheet crafting menus, and spend their sweet time clicking food into existence to be stuck in a box, repeat- ad infinitum, with the main gain of progression with interacting with this system- was getting longer expiry times. If a reward for a system is to interact with the system less, something screwed up.

Nexus didnt create worthwhile shepherds and breeders, with specialized tools, farms, techniques, and facilities to manage their modest flocks and packs, it created sprawling underground farms and towers, filled with lag inducingly large numbers of animals, killed and bred at the daily to get as much as possible, with the only deciding factors of success and progression being time investment, and not having your farm massacred by disgruntled mods and techs trying to keep the server from lagging to death.

 

The magic plugin- the plugin that was hyped for 5 actual years, had multiple nexus mechanics and crafting recipes, and was teased as the ultimate merging of rp and mechanics- that never came, was the cherry ontop the evergrowing pile of BS that was nexus.

 

Likewise, dont forget how the economy became so fucked up that in vailor- actual buyshops were made at the cloud temple as to stabilize the constantly diminishing price of every single good, and grant value to the 2 dozen useless items who only served as potential magic plugin pieces.

 

As of current, i feel the economy is relatively fine. In most established cities, you can find shops selling massive varieties of items (both rp items, and standard mc ones) for variety of prices. There exists rarer materials and items that are very sought after, and specialists with know how on things are commonly consulted and commissioned for goods and/or services.

 

If this suggested plugin is anything vaguely like Nexus, I can whole heartedly say it will severely detract from the mission of this server to provide a fun avenue for creative storytelling.

 

And before there is even a vague note of it only being for pvp- take a looksy here.

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/166343-on-the-state-of-pvpnexus/?tab=comments#comment-1572243

[argonian 14254]

19 hours ago, Lojo613 said:

From what I am seeing on the tech discord, the staff plans to implement another crafting system to “fix” LOTC’s economy. This includes plans for the basic gathering professions which are supposed to have bonuses AND plans for crafting professions which will also provide bonuses. Unfortunately, the staff has once again failed to realize WHY Nexus was so divisive. It wasn’t just that  players would be locked out of vanilla crafting, making the grind to get building blocks a chore, and it wasn’t just that crafting times took 8 HOURS for things like chainmail which I could feasibly rply make in 1 hour.

Nah it was basically this, along with how ridiculously OP grinded PVP gear was. Having to grind a bit is fine so long as you don’t have to grind just to do the most basic of ****(”oh damn I need some bread/to break a block of wood, better go ping the local baker/lumberjack on discord”) and so long as not being a top-tier grinder doesn’t turn your group into an army of literal NPC getting cut down by 2 guys in enchanted dia. 

 

16 hours ago, monkey poacher said:

A crafting system only creates an “economy” as we know it if it forces players to trade for basic needs. Under Nexus you could basically craft anything you’d need for basic roleplay without leveling any professions. In reality if you’re a master blacksmith you can craft a pretty good set of armor, but you might need to hire someone to build you a new door or harvest and prepare food for you to eat. Nexus didn’t acknowledge that, and just let you do basically anything with lvl 1 professions. As a result, Nexus created more of a hierarchy than an economy. 

 

If you want an economy you need some degree of interdependence. People have to want to buy something that other players are selling. That something can be RP items (as it is now), PvP gear (as under Nexus), or basic necessities. I think people trading in basic necessities lends itself well to cooperative roleplaying. Trade creates roleplay. If you need bread to survive you’re going to roleplay with the baker, or if he’s selling through an autoshop you at least need to roleplay with someone to get a job. If you’re a medieval fantasy character you should know your village baker and have a trade. Your adventures should involve provisioning and forethought. The fantasy should stay grounded.

 

An ideal roleplay setting would reward large-scale cooperation between players. The most powerful nations shouldn’t just be the largest, but also the most internally cohesive. Bandit characters should be on the brink of starvation and itinerant blood knights should starve to death. I know it sounds sort of bizarre to add starvation and poverty to a fantasy role-play, but hear me out. The problem with having infinite lives and resources means that the stakes for any drama have to be worse than death, which is hard to do, and encourages players to seek OOC retribution for slights that can’t be redressed in character. Player economies spin out (or kill roleplay) when the most profitable thing to do in the economy is sit in a basement. A motive to interact with players is good for role-play, and should be the goal of an economy plugin. Professions alone won’t add that, but a plugin that makes you unable to craft both armor and a door will.

It doesn’t create RP at all. When someone needs two wooden stairs to quickly finish their roof, they aren’t going to spend an hour RP'ing with the woodworker. They’re gonna go “can you turn these planks into stairs please”, “ok”, “thanks”. Guy doesn’t even get paid for it half the time because who tf pays for that. If you need food you go, “does anyone have food” and someone throws you 20 bread. Nexus wasn’t that terribly long ago in the grand scheme of things; it’s not that hard to remember that all these restrictions on menial and basic tasks didn’t create RP.

 

As for trade and autoshops, a skills plugin doesn’t make a difference on whether people buy food or not. Most people couldn’t be bothered running out to a farm to get bread either way. People still buy bread if they need it, just like they did before. Trade has gone down because resources, tools and PVP gear are worthless now. And because custom items are gone. You don’t need to stop people crafting wooden stairs out of planks to create trade. You don’t need to stop them from punching a bloody log either. Restrictions on basic Minecraft mechanics creates nothing except frustration. 

[_pr0fit 3084]

My favorite part of this thread is that its just people freaking out about old nexus and not understanding or have read any of the information about new professions plugins

[Hiebe 2493]

You havent read anything or know anything about the new professions or economy system planned for next map.

 

Get some more info from the dicord server. The biggest changed is NO RESTRICTIONS JUST BUFFS. Also it looks as if you can do any professions and not locked to a couple.