Elemental v Animist, a debate

[PrinceJose270 740]

With the current freeze on shamanism as a whole. I thought it would be interesting to spark a simple debate on Elemental v Animist to try and better prepare future writers of the lore for if/when such freeze is thawed out. Either flushing out Animism in the future or reverting back to how Elementalism worked with fixes to prevent it's shelfing.

Keep things civil, please. 

[ThatFunkyBunch 2066]

As the writer of the lore games Elementalism I am not biased at all

 

1 minute ago, ThatFunkyBunch said:

As the writer of the lore games Elementalism I am not biased at all

 

More Serious note. 

I like Animism, I like parts of animism. I dislike other parts. Frum could be kept or converted over to a new system. Remove the elemental wheel so I can say my Earth Fire Elementalism is granted from a Lava spirit. Rituals are alright in Animism, but they need to be altered be more friendly, easier to do, and give more reason for Animist to do these rituals. 

For Ele, alot of the Spirit Mark stuff can be converted over to rituals and vice versa. Ele needs some changes, emote timers etc, tweaks, buffs, nerfs. I prefer Ele over Animism. My ideal world, we merge the two.

[Astrophysical 1003]

As a co-writer of animism, I am not biased at all.

 

I will admit that animism has its flaws. For the main issue, we wanted a ritual heavy magic for shamanism that unfortunately forces players to get multiple animists in one place. This however became the biggest hurt for the magic as the amount of player animists needed to gather in one place is almost impossible.

 

On the other side, I have heard plenty and plenty enough that animism has no combat capacity and its useless as a magic. To be frank Im tired of hearing it. This only compiles the main issue of the lack of players despite its easy to learn process (even if the lore is somewhat difficult to read).

 

If Elementalism could come back without all the powergaming capabilities we wanted to avoid with animism, that would be great. However as it stands people seem to want old elementalism as I have seen, which is not possible in this current state of the server.

[ThatFunkyBunch 2066]

9 minutes ago, Astrophysical said:

As a co-writer of animism, I am not biased at all.

 

I will admit that animism has its flaws. For the main issue, we wanted a ritual heavy magic for shamanism that unfortunately forces players to get multiple animists in one place. This however became the biggest hurt for the magic as the amount of player animists needed to gather in one place is almost impossible.

 

On the other side, I have heard plenty and plenty enough that animism has no combat capacity and its useless as a magic. To be frank Im tired of hearing it. This only compiles the main issue of the lack of players despite its easy to learn process (even if the lore is somewhat difficult to read).

 

If Elementalism could come back without all the powergaming capabilities we wanted to avoid with animism, that would be great. However as it stands people seem to want old elementalism as I have seen, which is not possible in this current state of the server.

If old Ele was implemented it's combative stuff needs some nerfs yeah.  

Personally, I think we just take the good things from both and smash em together. Having a combative bite is good but old Ele suffers from the fact that it was designed to be combat heavy. At least that was the writing goal I was told. Shaman Soldiers. So, it became that. It's extremely strong which does need addressed. 

Combat is never really where I had issues with Animism (As you know I wanna land surf). But it serves as a good cultural piece. It can be hard for new players to read as well. Rewording, clarifications could go a long way for Animism/Elementalism. 

 

7 minutes ago, ThatFunkyBunch said:

If old Ele was implemented it's combative stuff needs some nerfs yeah.  

Personally, I think we just take the good things from both and smash em together. Having a combative bite is good but old Ele suffers from the fact that it was designed to be combat heavy. At least that was the writing goal I was told. Shaman Soldiers. So, it became that. It's extremely strong which does need addressed. 

Combat is never really where I had issues with Animism (As you know I wanna land surf). But it serves as a good cultural piece. It can be hard for new players to read as well. Rewording, clarifications could go a long way for Animism/Elementalism. 

 

Forgot to say: 

I think alot of Animism rituals could be rephrased. It's hard to digest. (U know you many times I asked if I could do X and either you or divine or someone else would say yes.) But it takes a couple of reads to make it click. 

[Caravaggio 145]

3 hours ago, Astrophysical said:

As a co-writer of animism, I am not biased at all.

 

I will admit that animism has its flaws. For the main issue, we wanted a ritual heavy magic for shamanism that unfortunately forces players to get multiple animists in one place. This however became the biggest hurt for the magic as the amount of player animists needed to gather in one place is almost impossible.

 

On the other side, I have heard plenty and plenty enough that animism has no combat capacity and its useless as a magic. To be frank Im tired of hearing it. This only compiles the main issue of the lack of players despite its easy to learn process (even if the lore is somewhat difficult to read).

 

If Elementalism could come back without all the powergaming capabilities we wanted to avoid with animism, that would be great. However as it stands people seem to want old elementalism as I have seen, which is not possible in this current state of the server.

As one of the more active animists, I can tell you that this is 100% what ruined the magic for me. I had an active cult of 5 people. I arranged an event to cast Dominion, which required a few extra animists to participate. I had 4 people confirm that they would attend the event. Nobody showed.

 

Just adding this on though; this debate has been settled. Anything like the elementalism of old is too close to elemental evocation for the lore team to accept. It's not coming back in any form. We should be glad that we have Animism; there are some factions that are arguing for getting rid of elemental spirits entirely. I personally think that we shouldn't toss away lore that's more than 10 years old and is a cornerstone of orc culture on a whim.