[Your View] Build Rules / Petty Theft

[MayRndz 1830]

 

We're Back! With over 200 votes on the previous poll for proposed build-rule changes I am here to better refine moderation's thoughts on these various changes. Though nearly [¾] of players voted there should not be a difference in difficulty when lockpicking wooden doors vs iron doors we feel the communication was lacking; comments shared mutual feelings of the aesthetic PROS of wood vs iron doors.

 

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Current Lockpicking Standard
 

• Wood door — roll 17+ (10+ with a lockpick)
• Iron door — roll 19+ (15+ with a lockpick)
   

Possible Changes
 

• Both doors would be made equal to the same standard of Iron Doors
  •  Iron door — roll 19+ (15+ with a lockpick)
• Both doors would be made equal to the same standard of Wooden Doors
  • Wood door — roll 17+ (10+ with a lockpick)
• Both Doors are Set to a decided Middle Ground
  • Doors — roll 18+ (12+ with a lockpick) (this is just an example)

 

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Additionally comments voiced concerns of redstone doors being able to hide something like a void/necro tear, obelisk, etc. and unable to be accessed without a key (despite the plugin prompting your chat with “the key doesn't seem to fit”) Opinions were mixed so I would like to re-poll with a chance to add some additional feedback. Our thoughts would be to treat it similar to an Iron door, however requiring one to have a lockpick (Or similar to lecturms make it heist only) instead of the ability to break it down independently.
 

Current redstone door Standard
 

With a specific key / trigger block
 

Possible Changes
 

• Able to be Picked All the Time
  •   roll 15+ with a lockpick
• Only able to be picked in a Heist setting Similar to Lecterns & Bookshelves
  •   roll 15+ with a lockpick
     

Following comments I saw the primary concern people had was how redstone doors would be found in which case the intent would be seeing someone go in and out or having to feel around to find the door. (which is no different from current standard) outside of the precedent of having to find one key from 820 different blocks currently in the game

 

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As for “how many doors is too many” it was well spread across the board with a majority feeling 3-5 doors is too many. Giving us the likely standard to keep it as is at around 2 doors or 3. Let us know in the comments as well if you have additional proposals for Build or Petty Theft rules all together while we work out some issues in the system.

[sam33497 7356]

ok im obviously biased but people end up getting into everywhere anyways rn i dont know why defenses will be nerfed esp when the main point of breaking into heavily defended places is griefing lore things or pking people with phylacs

 

i think it was fun when i wanted to break into hallowcliffe and i had to do a lot of rp to do it instead of relying on brute forcing mechanical plugins while they were all offline

[MayRndz 1830]

9 minutes ago, sam33497 said:

i think it was fun when i wanted to break into hallowcliffe and i had to do a lot of rp to do it

At the moment there is no way to get past redstone doors except clicking through 820 block combinations (as voiced) I fail to view how that is roleplay friendly. + redstone can be trailed 200+ blocks away from the actual enterance and make it near impossible to find.

[Wizry 1218]

why is there no 'keep things as they are currently' option?

[Unwillingly 18113]

petty theft sucks rn and is probably one of the most unenjoyable and uninteractive types of "RP" to receive on the server, so you can't even really blame people for wanting better ways to defend against the 2am dollar-store bandits who smash ur windows and leave signs everywhere. people do /smash on windows they can't even parkour into just to be annoying. if petty theft had more of an interaction dynamic then I'd be more forthcoming to making it easier to break into places, so for now I vote for iron door equivalent on both types of doors

and yeah I understand that generally people aren't going to be breaking into places that are known to have people inside, but the issue is that it provides 0 RP in most cases other than an annoying window to fix. if you're an outlier and you actually use petty theft for a reason, that's great, but most people do not. would love if petty theft was reworked to be more RP friendly

[sam33497 7356]

13 minutes ago, MayRndz said:

At the moment there is no way to get past redstone doors except clicking through 820 block combinations (as voiced) I fail to view how that is roleplay friendly. + redstone can be trailed 200+ blocks away from the actual enterance and make it near impossible to find.

yeah tbh its fine to shoot these doors (people still get thru them but i understand) imo lock doors should probably not have keys and should just be right clickable

[MayRndz 1830]

19 minutes ago, Wizry said:

why is there no 'keep things as they are currently' option?

That was in the previous post that outlined this.

 

Comments voiced wanting to make them equal for the build standard but being scared that it'll take away from security.

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

When it comes to lore related instances I think they should just include they can't be hidden behind Redstone doors until a proper solution is found, the biggest appeal for Redstone Doors is they're unpickable but they have a fault in which a bad actor can simply use an x-ray to find out which item is the key. My suggestion would ultimately be relying on Tech Team, but I think if there is a way to have so when you try to use a CraftBook Hidden Sign, if you use the wrong key x amount of times, you are simply locked from interacting with that sign until x amount of time passes to stop people from being able to easily brute force the hidden sign lock. Secondly, if it is possible to 'hide' the item required to open the door from the sign, I would also suggest that there is limits placed on which items can be used as keys, this can help prevent unrealistic items being used as keys, such as rotten flesh, an organic material that I don't think is possible to obtain via any standard means. We could also add another lock pick type in crafting that is basically a Red Stone Lock Pick, the rough lore idea is simply that it runs a current through the Red Stone to fully trigger the mechanism to make it useless to have 20 different redstone locks but we could also just simplify that as a rule that you can only have a limit of 2 Red Stone Locks for a single door or something. Otherwise, I think only being pickable during a heist is a good place to start in balancing them. 

[MayRndz 1830]

3 minutes ago, sam33497 said:

yeah tbh its fine to shoot these doors (people still get thru them but i understand) imo lock doors should probably not have keys and should just be right clickable

I could definitely see changing the plugin to do this as a reasonable change aswell. 

[Wizry 1218]

11 minutes ago, MayRndz said:

That was in the previous post and a majority voted to change things. 

So, I misunderstand what you mean. Because regarding this, I was understanding that most didn't want to change things, which is why I believe this poll should again implement a 'keep things the same'.

Mostly so that Moderation can again readjust and understand if a change is truly warranted & wanted.

Edited July 10, 2024 by Wizry

[Cat Evocation 3728]

Bit confused cause I'm pretty sure the majority said both are fine as is.

 

Wanted to chip in another penny into the pile. I think petty theft is absolutely bonkers to be allowed because it introduces the following:

 

-ZERO ROLEPLAY INTERACTION

 

-UNNEEDED THEFT OF MINECRAFT ITEMS

 

Which is odd to think about because, like, I thought we are following good faith roleplay standards?

 

 

Oh, and if we're on the topic. The fact people can just /breakdown doors and windows without anyone present (ESPECIALLY WINDOWS MY GOD ITS PRACTICALLY GRIEFING) is crazy. It just allows people to get through stuff when nobody is around to notice at 1-3am to find Lore constructs that they may think are in an area to later practically metagame it for a heist.

 

Or, Yknow, break it while people are offline.

 

I'm starting to get a feeling that theres some flaws in our concept of "Good Faith"?

[Holyland 3650]

Listen to the people - 134 people said to keep the doors the same, and another 146 said to keep the redstone doors the same. Why is it necessary that the Moderation team implement the changes to please the extreme minority when the current large majority are satisfied with the system as it is?

 

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

 

NOTE: I actually do think we should make the doors the same in terms of their rolls to get into, just for aesthetic's sake, so we can eliminate iron doors in their entirety cos they're ******* ugly. But I'm not trying to shove that down other people's throats. Not saying you are, just saying it may be perceived that way, since you're making a second poll when the first poll already gave a clear answer. 

[BakedPotato 1021]

2 hours ago, MayRndz said:

I fail to view how that is roleplay friendly

I don't see how brute forcing to break in and steal peoples items and destroy phylacs while they are offline roleplay friendly either. Either let people defend the ways they can be forced PKed or make it so people can't offline break in to places.

[Coronate 5519]

1 hour ago, Child Neglecter said:

Listen to the people - 134 people said to keep the doors the same, and another 146 said to keep the redstone doors the same. Why is it necessary that the Moderation team implement the changes to please the extreme minority when the current large majority are satisfied with the system as it is?

 

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

 

NOTE: I actually do think we should make the doors the same in terms of their rolls to get into, just for aesthetic's sake, so we can eliminate iron doors in their entirety cos they're ******* ugly. But I'm not trying to shove that down other people's throats. Not saying you are, just saying it may be perceived that way, since you're making a second poll when the first poll already gave a clear answer. 

 

134 to 82, regardless most people on the server don't interact with any of this at all so they don't know how horrid it currently is. Redstone doors should be lockpickable there is absolutely no reason that they should have an exception and require a random object which based on the previous breakins has almost always been metagamed anyway for entry. There has been cases of people watching in freecam, invis, or even bringing every item in the game to the door to break in.

 

What roleplay reason would your character have to shove a cactus on a door to see if it works?

 

Its goofy, redstone doors need changed.

[Xarkly 17299]

3 hours ago, Punished_Pup said:

When it comes to lore related instances I think they should just include they can't be hidden behind Redstone doors until a proper solution is found, the biggest appeal for Redstone Doors is they're unpickable but they have a fault in which a bad actor can simply use an x-ray to find out which item is the key. My suggestion would ultimately be relying on Tech Team, but I think if there is a way to have so when you try to use a CraftBook Hidden Sign, if you use the wrong key x amount of times, you are simply locked from interacting with that sign until x amount of time passes to stop people from being able to easily brute force the hidden sign lock. Secondly, if it is possible to 'hide' the item required to open the door from the sign, I would also suggest that there is limits placed on which items can be used as keys, this can help prevent unrealistic items being used as keys, such as rotten flesh, an organic material that I don't think is possible to obtain via any standard means. We could also add another lock pick type in crafting that is basically a Red Stone Lock Pick, the rough lore idea is simply that it runs a current through the Red Stone to fully trigger the mechanism to make it useless to have 20 different redstone locks but we could also just simplify that as a rule that you can only have a limit of 2 Red Stone Locks for a single door or something. Otherwise, I think only being pickable during a heist is a good place to start in balancing them. 

 

A cooldown on keys would only buff redstone doors, which are already extremely broken.

 

Mods absolutely need to nerf them, especially where more than one redstone door is used in a build.

1 hour ago, BakedPotato said:

I don't see how brute forcing to break in and steal peoples items and destroy phylacs while they are offline roleplay friendly either. Either let people defend the ways they can be forced PKed or make it so people can't offline break in to places.

 

There needs to be some mutuality here - there's no point of having a phylactery if it's virtually impossible to reach in any circumstances by virtue of being miles underground, beneath lairs and lairs of honeycomb iron doors, and as many redstone doors as the creator wants.