naztherak lore feedback thread

[Unwillingly 18096]

I'm curious to hear some internal dialogue surrounding naz lore in its current state, as I do not regularly interact with most naz players outside of a select few. this is a thread open to both naztherak players and non-naz who regularly interact with the magic and its players. if you at all have any thoughts or opinions on this lore this is your opportunity to gush, please be thoughtful and helpful in your feedback

are there any glaring or fundamental flaws you recognize in naz lore? be it mechanics, consistency, or lore usage?
are its systems too complicated to learn and absorb, or should it encourage unique class-building? 
what are your favorite and least favorite spells and rites?
whats something you would like to see changed, added, or removed from the magic?
generally speaking, do you enjoy roleplaying the magic either as a Naz yourself or interacting with it as an outsider?
anything else you have an opinion on?

much obliged : ) if you have opinions you'd like to quietly voice as well my DMs are open
 

[Luto 439]

the MA thread desperately needs a format facelift, obtaining on-the-spot info is insufferable

[Metamancy 1759]

just shelf it man

[Unwillingly 18096]

4 minutes ago, Metaphobia said:

just shelf it man

why do you think it should be shelved?

[Metamancy 1759]

1 minute ago, Unwillingly said:

why do you think it should be shelved?

idk 

[Rig 17579]

Naztherak is a magic so thematically compelling that it took my character (a pious and religious monotheistic elf) and warped him into a Demon King. Originally rolled with Templarism in mind, my character was gradually ushered from being a hunter of Inferi to being one himself. Below I will illustrate things the magic does well:

Positives:

• The lore is well-balanced and taken care of. 
• Many of the groups in the player base are intentional about their villainy RP and kind to people they interact with.
• The magic is useful and can drive role-play very well through things like Cursed Idols and trickery on the part of the Naztherak sorcerer themselves. 
• The magic has very cool mechanics and the end game rocks. Genuinely. Lots of work has been invested by the community as a single body to make the lore better, even if people in role-play don't agree on much of anything.
• The changes to disconnection have added stakes to the magic. 
• EXCELLENT character development, great descriptions on part of the writers as to what happens to your character. 

 

Negatives:

• It is too easy to be granted an Inferis. I think that Zar'eika and Imps should have timers, and costs for their creation like Kloning. That way, people can't just pump endless amounts of them, which go AFK, then we have a stack of unactive Inferi sitting around.
• The player base has too many internal debates on themes that can more or less be solved by each respective side minding their own business. An acquaintance of mine Gomi was mocked for wanting to try their hand at playing a Warlock who attempted to remain good, this was more or less trolled to death on the out-of-character level. The point of the magic/CA is that the character is more or less at war with themselves and will always fall prey to their bad decisions, and to their malices. I understand people have their own beliefs on what qualifies as good role-play, but this is an example of a situation where I feel people should have been more tolerant. So long as a Naztherak isn't going around sipping tea all day, I don't personally care how they develop their character, as long as they always fall prey to their malices, and do not do stereotypical anime protagonist RP when they're at best a satanic idiot who's been duped by one of the five evil Pentacle Lords into being an errand boy.
• I feel like the lore can use polishing when it comes to the Demonic Compendium, and that Moz'Strimoza itself requires more elaboration as a lore location. I also think language can be clarified more on the lore thread and some passages can be shortened or explained differently. 
• I think that this is going to be my most unconventional opinion and one that might attract outcry, but I believe that Naztherak should be able to have a mele route they can choose, and instead of being a caster they have a cursed weapon. Additionally, I think a future addition should emphasize the deal-oriented nature of the magic and add in spells that are for pacts between individuals. 
• This opinion will draw lots of fire, I think it would be interesting to have Naztherak who refuse to progress to T4 or T5 (thus being fully dedicated to evil), and that tricksters could steal the magic and be constantly hunted by Inferis and Naztherak. It'd be cool to have people who steal the abilities and as a consequence end up hunted down for trying to do "good guy" or "anti-hero" things. This should have immense costs, but I love the idea of Inferi hunters who practice Naztherak. I also like magics on the server being open-ended. A big part of why I love Templarism is that its focus on courage doesn't necessarily emphasize good or evil. The character's own values shape their use of the magic, they just aren't allowed to be a coward.
• Inferi characters should be rarer and given more autonomy, rather than Warlock slop summons. They should have a real, elaborative contract. If they fulfill this contract, they should be given their freedom in return, and be able to roam on their own. 

[squakhawk 14038]

there are five groups who each think another one has control of the entire lorepiece and somehow this doesn’t seem to reflect in roleplay as the lords beefing but instead tweaking over amendments that change spelling errors and being mad the biggest magic on the server doesn’t have enough 

 

also should shelve it cause idk 

 

also any shelf yappers will be shot in the head they grow up in a privileged era of not having total lore rewrites for small changes every 3 months that introduce more problems than they fix (It will be right this time i promise) 

 

magic is ok

community could do better being an organized antagonistic force

born to make rokodra and feat stack for 1,000,000 years 

[Eurielle 1189]

1 hour ago, Metaphobia said:

idk 

 

[Navigator 4260]

25 minutes ago, squakhawk said:

there are five groups who each think another one has control of the entire lorepiece and somehow this doesn’t seem to reflect in roleplay as the lords beefing but instead tweaking over amendments that change spelling errors and being mad the biggest magic on the server doesn’t have enough 

 

also should shelve it cause idk 

 

also any shelf yappers will be shot in the head they grow up in a privileged era of not having total lore rewrites for small changes every 3 months that introduce more problems than they fix (It will be right this time i promise) 

 

magic is ok

community could do better being an organized antagonistic force

born to make rokodra and feat stack for 1,000,000 years 

five???

[King_Kunuk 3022]

Suffers from the Necromancer problem in my opinion but to a far, far lesser extent.

 

Oldish lore which some fleepers use for goober rp. I think demons as a CA (not Akals) are mostly CRP slop, while Naz themselves can range from very fun to RP to "holy **** you got dogpiled by 4 knights how are you still casting" type rper.

 

Necromancy has a similar issue of goobers being F tier, and I think Naz has the same issue. It's weird that as squak said there is like 5 groups as I was under the impression of their being like, 2 originally. Makes me wonder how many necro groups exist (my money is on 3), my giga chad group, the necromancers who hang with the naz, and then these Scorched Crown dudes.

 

Honestly Nazthrak itself just needs a lore glow up like Shamanism and other lores. I'm not too familiar with it but I think the hyper chain wipe spell is kinda silly (weightless chain you can swing around but has the impact strength of steel) and so perhaps their combat spells could use some micro management but it's not a hill I'm about to die on.

 

I am opposed to shelving Naz along with shelving Necromancy and other spook magics. #keepTheMagicAlive 

[Eurielle 1189]

31 minutes ago, King_Kunuk said:

(my money is on 3)

yeah sounds right i guess idk i mostly track groups through item sign sreqs

[Nectorist 12869]

Naz kind of has to compete in the same space as Necro as being a 'summoner' magic (okay yes, u get some malflame spells that people in armor- which everyone wears- can ignore), both of which, as other people have said, are prone to have CRP lovers who have an aversion to conflict that isn't 'villain of the week' RP.

 

I think another issue is that Naz inherently has an unachievable endgame. Your goal as a Naz is generally to control and dominate and scheme your way up the rungs of power, but there is an artificial cap put on this. You can never be a serious threat. You can never be a disruption. At most, you serve to be a speed bump to the 'good guys', an antagonist in another character's story. The more interesting dynamics SHOULD be found in Naz infighting as they scheme their way to the top, but the problem with that is that everyone in the community are friends, so they don't want to fight each other, or they don't get along at all, so they want to avoid each other at all costs.

 

To draw another comparison, striga, while a creature and not a magic, was something I loved playing because there was no inherent goal that defined my character, just the limitations that it brought. My striga was the Imperial Archchancellor, but he also had to feed regularly, keep his coven appeased, avoid bloodshed or anything that would expose him, etc. His overarching goals had nothing to do with being a striga as they were centered around his politics and family, but being a striga completely changed how he went about pursuing those goals. The striga powers were cool, but my experience with that character was defined more by the limitations that his condition brought than its strengths, which made moments where I COULD use the striga powers much more rewarding.

 

In my experience playing a Naz and interacting with them, it's maybe my second favorite lore piece after striga. It's got cool creatures to summon, magic that's fun to use no matter how much it never works, it's relatively easy to use, the lore is great, the theoretical dynamics between Naz are the best of any magic or creature, bar none. You can do so many awesome things as a Naztherak because it is a great piece of lore.

 

Therein lies the core issue with Naz that I've felt while playing one. Because it is so open-ended as a magic, its limitations are uninteresting and artificial. While on paper, the lore is centered around the pursuit of power in order to climb this devilish hierarchy, in reality, your power is constrained by the OOC realities of the nation system and the requirement for players to consent to anything consequential being done to them. On paper, rivalry, manipulation, and deceit among Naz covens is a central premise to how the magic community is supposed to work, but in reality, people either don't want to be in conflict or don't want to interact at all, depriving this crucial (I'd even say necessary) fleche of social Naz RP.

 

If I was the Imperial Archchancellor on a Naz character, I could literally just ignore the magic and play like a normal human. Sure, it wouldn't be faithful to the lore, but nobody RPs mental effects of magics as written because having them hard-coded is usually for the worse. This wasn't an option with striga because I would literally wither away if I did not people, and thus all of my RP involving that creature lore was downstream of that massive limitation. I think if Naz wants to get better, it needs to have some kind of mechanical element in it to force a greater degree of infighting and political maneuvering within its playerbase, because right now, there's really no objective you can have that makes it worth it to go against people.

[Benleft 2578]

Reputation destroyed by forum warriors & hurricane Katrina. FEMA funds misallocated. Gov. is fighting with POTUS. What is going on?

I think with a little unity & a compelling goal, Naztherak & Inferi players could surprise the server like Necromancers did early last map. 

[KeiaTypeBeat 3276]

Reads like a Naz themed ama. Is the rep worth the torture you put yourself through? 

 

I didn't have the best introduction to Naz for certain, so grain of salt. But bored at work, so, I'll take the opportunity to yap. I barely played a demon, as to the context of my perspective. 

 

Quote

are there any glaring or fundamental flaws you recognize in naz lore? be it mechanics, consistency, or lore usage?

Can't stress this enough. Wish there were a way for a command that doesn't fit with the theme of the magic to be inherently null and void. My demon was a maid in life, so I made her hate housework and such as a demon specifically to discourage slice of life on her. And her masters only used this to punish her with slice of life chores when she went outta line. Which makes sense to do. Yeah. But it still sucks!

 

Then I see people posting on the forums ab slice of life dark mages and I'm just like. Dang man. I hate me too frfr 😭😭 /j but also kinda not really 💀

 

Quote

are its systems too complicated to learn and absorb, or should it encourage unique class-building? 

It was genuinely difficult at times to have to refer from one lore page to another so frequently between inferis and Naz main lore. There's no explanation for the basic principles of the magic on the creature compendium, so one must sift through the other lore page a lot. Some will say this is a skill issue and to just read lore. I think it's inefficient and unnecessarily tedious. Some people don't know English as a first language, or struggle with reading, y'know. 

 

Quote

what are your favorite and least favorite spells and rites?

Enwreathe I think it's called? Whatever lets you cover your arm in malflame. That's sick. I didn't know Kozunka couldn't use it when I chose the class, and I think that's bad, but that's my skill issue tbh. 

 

Quote

whats something you would like to see changed, added, or removed from the magic?

Quote

generally speaking, do you enjoy roleplaying the magic either as a Naz yourself or interacting with it as an outsider?

 

I think DC is necessary but poorly done. None of my normy slice of lifers have any sort of interaction with the magic outside of possibly being a victim. This is bad. I, as a bystander, should still be able to see the activities of the dark arts and have a willing stake in its conflicts. 

 

Why would I care about darkspawn on darkspawn violence? I want them both to win. Regardless who loses, the winner wants to ruin my life and my country! This is why we need clerics. At least if conflict between holy mages and darkspawn was common enough for posts to come about, my normie elf slice of lifers or my pvp goons could cheer the "good guys" on like a sports team. (Inb4 cleric v templar war B4 darkspawn crusade) 

 

There's just too much incentive for Naz to only interact with other Naz. Interactions with any semblance of the good guys amounts to trophy collect or being called to deal with a one off situation, with no actual narrative being weaved between the communities of light and dark. 

 

Most of my feelings ab the matter do extend to other dark magics, though.

This stuff can be kinda hard to manage, and I don't think the structure of Naz as a magic or what it inherently offers is the source of issues. I think it can be done very well, just need to work out the finer things of it. But what do I know, anyways!

 

I do think it's cool. And I was excited to interact with it. But I'm at the point where I don't really get how my character who is uninvolved with it is really supposed to care. And it would be really cool if they had a reason to care, aside for knowing someone who is just a victim, or being one themselves. 

 

No hard feelings ofc, hope I'm not read as worked up. 

 

Edit: I also agree with Rig about having a melee option. I planned to have that gimmick before messing up and not reading the fine print of Kozunka.

 

Quote

anything else you have an opinion on?

 

The state of conflict on LOTC is so crazyyyy!!! Naz can't be perfect because people can't let bad things happen, roll with the chaos! Lore Games 2 when?? Edit: /j smh

 

Edit: I also like what Rig said about villainy, as in I believe genuine stories about the nature of good struggling and losing to an inevitable internal evil are compelling and thrilling. People have strong opinions about what they define as valid rp, however. 

 

Quote

much obliged : ) if you have opinions you'd like to quietly voice as well my DMs are open

Srry big chief ur 2 scaryyy

[ScreamingDingo 20568]

give me ixris again ill fix naz properly