I Am Green and I choose for you.

[lemonke 6014]

Hello, I’m Fooldude. Some may know me as a rather foolish and angry individual, which I understand, hence the name “Fool.” However, today I want to bring up a recent interaction that, quite frankly, was unfair on every level and relied on abusing old lore to justify a mass PK or forcing very stagnant one-sided roleplay. Now, I understand that roleplay is roleplay, but this situation was handled in such a distasteful manner that it makes me seriously doubt that everything was planned purely for narrative reasons. First, I’ll address the initial incident. They raided Illivira and immediately went for a PK on Taters’ character, Nenar. Now, I won’t deny that the roleplay itself was well-written and engaging. However, the execution was problematic. This syndicate of four evil druids stormed in alongside fifteen darkspawns, with moderators already present and staff actively watching the roleplay, including Werewolf, who was enforcing verdicts on the spot.

For example, when Nenar’s tree was hit with malflame, the tree logically should have died by the third emote.

 

However, she was told, as an immediate verdict, that if she died from that, it would be considered a PK as for them she was avoiding the un-attunement rule. This ruling felt rushed, inconsistent, and unfair.

 

I won’t go further into that aspect, as it is ultimately up to Taters to pursue it. My main concern lies with what happened afterward.

Following that long combat RP in Illivira, hours later, they somehow managed to interact with every tree present. This forced us into a one-week freeze where the entire lair and all vassals were locked, and Nenar’s death, along with the consequences tied to it, was also put into stagnation until the situation was resolved.

 

We were explicitly told that we couldn’t rally, due to an old soul-tree redline, and that no one could defend us because it would count as part of the CRP lock from the previous fight. The result was a total shutdown of our ability to respond, act, or defend ourselves.

To make matters worse, I wasn’t even present, nor were many of those soul trees as they contacted us truly after a few hours of their ordeal. I was asleep. I woke up to being told that I was now under a CRP lock, with absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent or influence the situation in roleplay. Even though my character had plans.

 

 

So, this roleplay fight happens. Prior to it, we were reassured by Raider: “Not sure if there would be more un-attunement. If you guys have a sapling, you will be fine.” Based on that assurance, we proceeded with the roleplay.

 

My tree itself was impossible to DC, so they didn’t attempt it, but I was hit with malflame. Realistically, I could have avoided the malflame, since a demon had thrown five chained-up bodies at me, but I chose to allow it for the sake of making the scene more engaging and less frustrating, because I wasn’t trying to powergame or be cheesy. Shoutout to Shadowylord for roleplaying Skulltaker; that was genuinely well done, and I had fun interacting with them.

I’m not sure how much Maleus the demons had, and some of them were probably exhausted anyway, considering the scene took place in the aftermath of a CRP that lasted hours but that wasn’t probably taken into accounts by the mods.

 

After the roleplay, we departed on polite terms. The demons were chill, days passed, and everything seemed fine. I was already fairly inactive due to burnout, but we replanted our tree using the sapling without issue.

Then today, each tree lord whose soul tree died in that event was contacted.

For the record, in my case, it isn’t a full 30 days due to the one-week freeze. I would have had only one single day to save myself from a permakill. Additionally, I can prove that I wanted to move my tree prior to that conflict. Nevertheless, this issue was suddenly raised, not only with me but with multiple others, despite the fact that it had never been enforced like this before.

 

Several inactive tree lords in the past have simply used saplings and continued without issue. If this logic were consistently applied, it would result in a mass permakill of tree lords. That alone shows how flawed this enforcement is.

 

I’ll address the lore shortly, but I want to emphasize how deeply unfair this feels. Instead of enforcing a mass PK retroactively, they should have simply said:

 

“From this point forward, if you do not roleplay with your sapling within X days, it will die.”

 

Instead, they chose to retroactively apply vague lore interpretations to force immediate permakills, especially after an attempted mass kill event. This feels like a direct attempt to finish what could not be accomplished IC.

 

The lore itself has always been vague, and historically, ST never had an issue with this. Many soul trees died, but I do not recall a single case where staff actively searched for saplings or required people to roleplay with them individually just to avoid a PK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you may say “they are right. Lore says they need to be nurtured with druid energy”. Albeit. It doesn’t state the days when it would die because we would have done this or rather made a new sapling, and since there is no timer. ST can say what they please, whenever the sapling would die. If we follow the logic of Squak of 30 days/one month I would still be alive. Since I’d be ony 29 days if we ignore the one freeze week OOC they have me to do the crp.

 

 

 

 

I have no more to say. I hope you will have fun with your druid CA and that whatever plot you had to control a minecraft pixel creature has truly made you happy. This is not fair and while I understand the lore says x and y, albeit vaguely, it has never been an issue and all I see is rudeness and bias to get an entire day mass pked without giving us a chance to argue or fight back. You chose when the sapling dies, there was no TIME written about it either, and instead you chose to pk everyone rather than giving us a warning. It could have been a week, a full month, six days. It doesn't matter. You chose it after the whole ordeal had happened, without even telling us what would be the exact day the saplings would be dead.

 

Have a good day I guess. Surely some people are gonna be giggling in VC my character died this way or that "heh, fooldude finally got it"(I know who you are), or I will get Ratioed by somebody who has more reputation than me in lotc, who knows.

 

I am probably gonna take my leave, after I give my items to my people amd handle a few last businesses with my character. I might return in a week, in a month, or years, or never who knows but at the moment I am finding no fun in this and I'd rather focus fully on IRL than continue to follow an empty dream on minecraft.

 

Update: just to show we tried to communicate and got nothing out of it.

 

 

[MaplTree 129]

Yeah this is so insanely fucked.

[Rig 17580]

You all stuck living saplings in a chest to wilt and die. I understand it sucks, but if you had one job and that was for a person to carry the sapling, it falls on us as CA players to know the lore we're playing. Even if our lore is flawed or incomplete, or requires extensive revisions. At the bottom of every Magic Application or Creature App, there is a clause that specifies that if the magic can PK you, you accept. It's more or less a contract. You're signing up for these kinds of verdicts when you roll a CA. If you dislike the current parameters of your CA, I heavily advocate rewriting it.

 

In the case of Tree Lords, their lore has not been touched in some time, and do not currently reflect widely-held standards and lore conventions in other creatures. I am sure ST who actively omni'd and engaged with this situation can probably give you better answers, and I am very sorry you lost your character to that sapling redline. Maybe it's easier from the outside looking in to point out something I feel is common sense. I regularly PK characters on a dime, even ones I've played for awhile, so I might not be the person to ask on this subject. 

[lemonke 6014]

11 minutes ago, Rig said:

You all stuck living saplings in a chest to wilt and die. I understand it sucks, but if you had one job and that was for a person to carry the sapling, it falls on us as CA players to know the lore we're playing. Even if our lore is flawed or incomplete, or requires extensive revisions. At the bottom of every Magic Application or Creature App, there is a clause that specifies that if the magic can PK you, you accept. It's more or less a contract. You're signing up for these kinds of verdicts when you roll a CA. If you dislike the current parameters of your CA, I heavily advocate rewriting it.

 

In the case of Tree Lords, their lore has not been touched in some time, and do not currently reflect widely-held standards and lore conventions in other creatures. I am sure ST who actively omni'd and engaged with this situation can probably give you better answers, and I am very sorry you lost your character to that sapling redline. Maybe it's easier from the outside looking in to point out something I feel is common sense. I regularly PK characters on a dime, even ones I've played for awhile, so I might not be the person to ask on this subject. 

 

Never has it been an issue and was brought up only after this. Nor I was told, nor it's written on the lore when they die. If it was, my bad! I should have gone there and got another but I who also play very barely had no idea I had x days as the lore. Only states it vaguely. I was told by other tree lords(nameli taters) that it would be ok since she had no issue about it in the past. But i guess, you can say it's my bad there? Even if, once again, it was never an issue brought up until now.

 

I don't even care about the pk itself but how it was enforced and ignoring completely every player's comment because this whole situation has only been OOC since it started and the little fun I had was with your skulltaker minion giving me some interesting dynamic for that brief moment.

 

Again, it's the HOW. IT IS just extremely fucked up how it was enforced, without having giving us a timestamp? When are those saplings gonna die? In a week? In 20 days? In two months? Do get these magical saplings get alimentef by one another? They just said "idk this is too much. You die now", while still having no clue when they would have died. So, now they mass pked some people, rather than take the damn reasonable approach to give us a week or something.

 

NO narrative was gained out of it. 

 

It's just an ooc mess.

[PolarLoLs 984]

Shit bro, you're my dog and all but i agree with Rig here, i wasn't there but from the screenshots and shit i saw it really seems like y'all got caught witchya pants down. Sure it doesnt say specifically how often you have to interact with it but why would you not interact with a sapling that your ENTIRE PK CLAUSE depends on atleast twice a month? i think 30 days was generous, if it was me i would have been rping with it atleast like once a week.

To me it just seems like if this never happened no one would have interacted with their saplings at all simply because it has never been enforced before, this just seems like a case where that meme of god making someone an example would apply
 

[simatra 373]

I fully agree with this post. OOC tactics to mass PK people shouldn't be supported at such a high level of staff, and retroactively deciding people need to regularly RP at themselves with a sapling is silly, are they going to say you need to RP going to bed every day if you play a descendant, too? 

 

People wanting to mass unattune and PK other players and having their staff friends support it is something that any reasonable player should be against, and to say that someone not actively RPing with an object every week means their character wouldn't be doing so is silly, it would be tedious and boring, and can 100% be assumed to be something your persona does "off screen". Flavor mechanics that were left vague and unspecified being used to justify players to bully others and ruin their experience is stupid and bad faith on every level. 

[Rig 17580]

1 minute ago, lemonke said:

 

Never has it been an issue and was brought up only after this. Nor I was told, nor it's written on the lore when they die. If it was, my bad! I should have gone there and got another but I who also play very barely had no idea I had x days as the lore. Only states it vaguely. I was told by other tree lords(nameli taters) that it would be ok since she had no issue about it in the past. But i guess, you can say it's my bad there?

 

I don't even care about the pk itself but how it was enforced and ignoring completely every player's comment because this whole situation has only been OOC and the little fun I had was with your skulltaker minion giving me some interesting dynamic for tbat brief moment.

 

Again, it's the HOW. IT IS just extremely fucked up how it was enforced, without having giving us a timestamp? When are those saplings gonna die? In a week? In 20 days? In two months? Do get these magical saplings get alimentef by one another? They just said "idk this is too much. You die now", while still having no clue when they would have died.

 

To be clear, I didn't expect that anybody would be forced to PK apart from Nenar (due to unattunement). As for whether it's noted on the lore, I am unsure, but I don't think a living plant could survive away from the sun in a chest for very long. I had nothing to do with any ST process for this (I am Enforcement + Event, not Lore). I am more or less giving you a boots-on-the-ground player perspective of it. It's fine to make mistakes, it's not your bad, sometimes shit just happens that blows. A very long time ago, my phylactery got smashed and I was basically hard PK'd. I didn't feel it was fair then but I rolled with the punches at the time. 

 

I am not sure how the situation is OOC, so if you could elaborate, I would appreciate that. Because I have endeavored to keep all of my decisions in-roleplay. If you mean the process of Lore Team being involved and the Lore Admin denying MA's and CA's, yes, that is more or less a verdict being enforced from the top-down as an arbitration about whether or not the saplings being stored in a chest was valid, and whether those saplings could survive in those conditions. 

[Tav 4336]

1 hour ago, simatra said:

I fully agree with this post. OOC tactics to mass PK people shouldn't be supported at such a high level of staff, and retroactively deciding people need to regularly RP at themselves with a sapling is silly, are they going to say you need to RP going to bed every day if you play a descendant, too? 

 

People wanting to mass unattune and PK other players and having their staff friends support it is something that any reasonable player should be against, and to say that someone not actively RPing with an object every week means their character wouldn't be doing so is silly, it would be tedious and boring, and can 100% be assumed to be something your persona does "off screen". Flavor mechanics that were left vague and unspecified being used to justify players to bully others and ruin their experience is stupid and bad faith on every level. 

the redline feeding druidic energies had been fulfilled with soul trees sticking their sapling in a trusted druid friend's inventory; this has been a tactic so cemented into the playerbase for so many years.
the reason the evil druid guys raided Illivira with inferi in the first place was to pk a singular druid, Nenar, burning down all the other soul trees in the area were merely the aftermath idea, and also a way to satiate the inferi's emo kill kill kill mindset. it is fair to admit that during the high of that night we thought it'd be cool to go ahead with unattuning the other trees afterwards, but with OOC conversations with the surrounded soul tree players we ourselves realized that was bad faith and totally out of character, to which we just let the inferi malflame burn them. it's not our fault the saplings weren't cared for. we're not ooc schemers who want to kill all the druid players contrary to popular belief.

also b4 fooldude sends a screenshot of me complaining about how bloated the soul tree CA is to say that's proof of metagaming and ooc targetting. it's really not. me being displeased by how bloated the CA is doesn't mean i'm going out of my way to kill all your characters. 

[Hawkeye_Gough 624]

There are good points that at the end of the day signing up for a CA is agreeing you'll eventually be pked -- and it probably won't be fun for you while it happens. 

 

That said, the idea of getting dragged into a crp you weren't present for, feeling on thin ice with staff before even doing anything, etc... doesn't seem like the reason that those pk clauses are in place. There seem to have been a lot of places where a little bit of courtesy or ooc forewarning (on mechanics - I don't mean meta) would have changed this from an ooc shitfest to a potentially fun irp shitfest.

 

I won't pretend to know how much of that courtesy is intended among tree lords or wider rules, but all the people I've tried anything similar to can attest to my rp-first focus. This sounds like the opposite

[lemonke 6014]

12 minutes ago, PolarLoLs said:

Shit bro, you're my dog and all but i agree with Rig here, i wasn't there but from the screenshots and shit i saw it really seems like y'all got caught witchya pants down. Sure it doesnt say specifically how often you have to interact with it but why would you not interact with a sapling that your ENTIRE PK CLAUSE depends on atleast twice a month? i think 30 days was generous, if it was me i would have been rping with it atleast like once a week.

To me it just seems like if this never happened no one would have interacted with their saplings at all simply because it has never been enforced before, this just seems like a case where that meme of god making someone an example would apply
 

30 days is generous I guess. It means I would have survived as Adele got my sapling in the 29 if we avoid the one week OOC freeze. 

Also, it makes me incredible for me to believe there was no preplanning since the same person who commented a hateful remark on my CA also said this.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Rig said:

 

To be clear, I didn't expect that anybody would be forced to PK apart from Nenar (due to unattunement). As for whether it's noted on the lore, I am unsure, but I don't think a living plant could survive away from the sun in a chest for very long. I had nothing to do with any ST process for this (I am Enforcement + Event, not Lore). I am more or less giving you a boots-on-the-ground player perspective of it. It's fine to make mistakes, it's not your bad, sometimes shit just happens that blows. A very long time ago, my phylactery got smashed and I was basically hard PK'd. I didn't feel it was fair then but I rolled with the punches at the time. 

 

I am not sure how the situation is OOC, so if you could elaborate, I would appreciate that. Because I have endeavored to keep all of my decisions in-roleplay. If you mean the process of Lore Team being involved and the Lore Admin denying MA's and CA's, yes, that is more or less a verdict being enforced from the top-down as an arbitration about whether or not the saplings being stored in a chest was valid, and whether those saplings could survive in those conditions. 

The OOC freezing, which was terrible timing for everybody and stuck us in a limbo, and now this. That's what feels OOC for me. It could go deeper with this as for me the whole situation was damn fishy, but in all of this conflict I was merely a bystander who got hit in the crossfire. So, I may just be having a biased opinion.

 

Once again... I had no rp out of this situation. It was OOC after OOC and eventually losing my character in an outside rp situation. Listen, ok, the saplings perhaps would have been dead, idk, I followed the elder druids on the CA because they never had this issue(I am a pretty newish druid over all). But can we know when had they died? Because again, fault on me if I didnt get to it if I knew the CD when the sapling would have gone poof.

 

Idk how much a magic sapling lasts but this was sudden, and was not aware it was on a countdown since the lore explains nothing. We based ourselves on a theory, conjecture and chose to pk several people.

2 minutes ago, Tav said:

the redline feeding druidic energies had been fulfilled with soul trees sticking their sapling in a trusted druid friend's CA; this has been a tactic so cemented into the playerbase for so many years.
the reason the evil druid guys raided Illivira with inferi in the first place was to pk a singular druid, Nenar, burning down all the other soul trees in the area were merely the aftermath idea, and also a way to satiate the inferi's emo kill kill kill mindset. it is fair to admit that during the high of that night we thought it'd be cool to go ahead with unattuning the other trees afterwords, but with OOC conversations with the surrounded soul tree players we ourselves realized that was bad faith and totally out of character, to which we just let the inferi malflame burn them. it's not our fault the saplings weren't cared for. we're not ooc schemers who want to kill all the druid players contrary to popular belief.

also b4 fooldude sends a screenshot of me complaining about how bloated the soul tree CA is to say that's proof of metagaming and ooc targetting. it's really not. me being displeased by how bloated the CA is doesn't mean i'm going out of my way to kill all your characters. 

How strange... the guy who wants a clean up of tree lords ooc is also involved into the rp. Gulps... my bad to think it's on my pov.

[Tav 4336]

Just now, lemonke said:

30 days is generous I guess. It means I would have survived as Adele got my sapling in the 29 if we avoid the one week OOC freeze. 

Also, it makes me incredible for me to believe there was no preplanning since the same person who commented a hateful remark on my CA also said this.

 

 

The OOC freezing, which was terrible timing for everybody and stuck us in a limbo, and now this. That's what feels OOC for me. It could go deeper with this as for me the whole situation was damn fishy, but in all of this conflict I was merely a bystander who got hit in the crossfire. So, I may just be having a biased opinion.

 

Once again... I had no rp out of this situation. It was OOC after OOC and eventually losing my character in an outside rp situation. Listen, ok, the saplings perhaps would have been dead, idk, I followed the elder druids on the CA because they never had this issue(I am a pretty newish druid over all). But can we know when had they died? Because again, fault on me if I didnt get to it if I knew the CD when the sapling would have gone poof.

 

Idk how much a magic sapling lasts but this was sudden, and was not aware it was on a countdown since the lore explains nothing

that was in response to mars' comment about wanting to clear out the CA for their treelord rewrite, please don't take my words out of context to fill your narrative.

[Tentoa 3160]

I willingly and knowingly sign an optional*** contract with the city I live in that says if I fail to water my neighbor's plant and it dies, he is permitted to shoot me in the head. 

I fail to water his plant, and it dies.

I am shot in the head. 

How could the City do this to me?

[lemonke 6014]

4 minutes ago, Tav said:

that was in response to mars' comment about wanting to clear out the CA for their treelord rewrite, please don't take my words out of context to fill your narrative.

You still complained more tree lords were being made under my CA and strangely you were there doing this. Not counting how many times you complained about the soul trees of Illivira because "they were behind walls". Gulps... another coindence... surely it's just FATE putting your character on this path

2 minutes ago, Tentoa said:

I willingly and knowingly sign a contract with the city I live in that says if I fail to water my neighbor's plant and it dies, he is permitted to shoot me in the head. 

I fail to water his plant, and it dies.

I am shot in the head. 

How could the City do this to me?

 

Read the post, as the complain was moreso on a date of their death never to be officialize stated.

[Werew0lf 24179]

39 minutes ago, lemonke said:

First, I’ll address the initial incident. They raided Illivira and immediately went for a PK on Taters’ character, Nenar. Now, I won’t deny that the roleplay itself was well-written and engaging. However, the execution was problematic. This syndicate of four evil druids stormed in alongside fifteen darkspawns, with moderators already present and staff actively watching the roleplay, including Werewolf, who was enforcing verdicts on the spot.

For example, when Nenar’s tree was hit with malflame, the tree logically should have died by the third emote.

 

However, she was told, as an immediate verdict, that if she died from that, it would be considered a PK as for them she was avoiding the un-attunement rule. This ruling felt rushed, inconsistent, and unfair.

 

I will only address this part of the issue as it concerns me.

 

I was not present for the original roleplay. I was in a voice-chat playing Hunt Showdown and then logged on. I am usually not one to make decisions on lore (though I can), but when there were no other ST online who were: not apart of the roleplay, did not know the druid lore, nor had the balls to make a decision they believed to be something that required manager-level, I opted to liaise with moderation.

I read the druid lore. I spoke to DragonofTaters in DMs -- we came to the conclusion that the tree-lord lore is bad. We decided to reference the only emote-counts we had which was the same as the necromancy sapping, which was [4] emotes. I told DragonofTaters I have little care for the roleplay, but I feel as though she was having the tree die from malflame to avoid the unattunement because it was a one-emote gap. She stated she understands this perspective and agrees, and understands how it can look like she is trying to avoid consequences.

I told her that if the lore stated clearly that the tree would burn to malflame in [3] emotes, I would have backed this verdict and told RaiderBlue and others to shove off. This was not the verdict.

 

I understand you are upset, but being accusatory is not the way to go. I have no reason or cause to purposely screw over DragonofTaters, we do not know each other barring the fact she comes to my events.

 

You should take a little chill pill, okay? Good communications. 

[MysticalWeasel 910]