[✗] [Amendment] Lets Nerf Tawkin Again, Harsher PK clause edition

[deviouschungus 164]

On 2/11/2026 at 12:55 PM, _AzureLexi said:

Necromancers literally pull souls from the afterlife to stuff into sacks of sickly sewn meat and aren't on a PK clause, idk why munc alchemists would

I don't necessarily disagree (I'm not knowledgable enough) but in general tbf that's magic, not alchemy, which comes with its own downsides and attached CAs. It makes sense to me that magic users would have more ease with defying the laws of life like that — especially with dark magic and specifically necromancy. Tentoa explains it far better a few replies down

 

I like this amendment tho and agree with the points that've been made in the replies 😁 I think it's logical for the Juliet Potion to be tethered to the PK clause of Klones

[Slorbin 2932]

I disagree with the PK upon learning homunc creation, but DO agree with the PK upon learning Juliet Potion.

You don't need to know kloning at all to learn homunculus creation, they're pretty different in lore. Homuncs involve making a frankenstein and putting the juice in them like they did to ol franky, kloning is fairly different.

I agree that, if you gain knowledge of how to PK a homunc, you should be subject to a PK clause though.

[wytch 870]

lol no thanks

 

stop trying to add pk clauses to things that dont need them, kloning has a pk clause because you're entrusting your soul to the safety of a vessel and going against all of the deities for it.

 

a potion is a potion, homunculi are separate creatures unrelated to that at all, if we're enforcing PKs for knowing how to make things, let's make sorvians, golems, and atronachs all require PK clauses.

 

edit; before I get called out for 'unrelated at all', I mean in the sense of homunculi are soulless creatures as the tawkinist can't mimic the presence or existence of one. Making a homunculi shouldn't mean you, yourself, are on a PK clause. Damned to the wastes for meddling with life? Sure, but my prior point stands.

 

-1

[Wonderland_Boy 1081]

8 hours ago, Tentoa said:

Given that there has been concern by the Homunculi community that randoms could perchance grab them off the road with a rally of 12 and extremely poor RP - this will reduce the number of available juliet's potions which is a more decent compromise, but more importantly - The nature of the Juliet's potion as a means to cheat death and sever the soul from the body and the nature of Homunculi being flesh monstrosities that require a great deal of knowledge of the alchemical and anatomical, it should logically require that to make a Juliet's potion you need to acknowledge it's effects and that Klones exist and that to make a Homunculi you must first understand how to make an inanimate flesh vessal (klone) in the first place.

It stands to reason if you are capable of making an item that can PK a character sans their consent, you should also have some skin in the game and be on a similar PK clause, as has been precedent in other lore. If you want to play mad scientist, you should expect to pay the mad scientist's price

To be honest, adding a PK clause to the feat that lets you create a being that is already one of the most powerful CA's on the server isn't even as bad as people make it seem. Still don't know why Juliet Potions don't already have a PK clause though, given how they quite literally give you a somewhat easy way to Hard-PK someone's character in comparison to other CA's.

[Pinky 77]

Makes sense, very cool, have a well deserved +1 sir!

[Tentoa 3160]

5 hours ago, wytch said:

lol no thanks

 

stop trying to add pk clauses to things that dont need them, kloning has a pk clause because you're entrusting your soul to the safety of a vessel and going against all of the deities for it.

 

a potion is a potion, homunculi are separate creatures unrelated to that at all, if we're enforcing PKs for knowing how to make things, let's make sorvians, golems, and atronachs all require PK clauses.

 

edit; before I get called out for 'unrelated at all', I mean in the sense of homunculi are soulless creatures as the tawkinist can't mimic the presence or existence of one. Making a homunculi shouldn't mean you, yourself, are on a PK clause. Damned to the wastes for meddling with life? Sure, but my prior point stands.

 

-1

I'm going to use your comment to lean into the 'this doesn't make sense' as compared to other creatures /magics so some of this is not totally relevant to your question but it is relevant to similar sentiments, so let me throw this out there: The monks do not care if you sell your soul to a deity. - If you're a machine-spirit, you've unknowingly sold your soul to Gorumdir. If you're a foul necromancer/Mystic, the taint on your soul means Aeriel is going to bump you out of the golden city anyway (and also these magics are traced back in their origin to an Angueldaemon, that being Iblees)

Sorvians do not lead you to cheating death; they teach you how to create funny little guys with a bit of mud, some blood, and a little soul energy, which is a thing that regenerates naturally. Golems (aren't very well written) feature nothing of consequence other than soulbound golems, which are technically a temporary (In a relative temporary sense) torture cage for a soul that will inevitably be broken.

Frankly, the original intent behind Tawkin was that it was so esoteric and wicked that even learning OF kloning was a PK clause, but naturally this was amended for fairness.

I view this not only as more fair for homunculi but also a move back toward the intended tone of the FA - The prior iteration of Tawkin is the reason we have the 'you can only have two grafted limbs', not for balance, but because Bogodan's clay was actually an artificial symbiotic parasite that attached to your body and ate your life force.

The spirit of it has and always has been something esoteric and taboo that has gradually (And i take partial responsibility for this) been whitewashed by its usefulness as a clinic feat and wacky little freaky friend maker, and including Homunculi in the PK clause is not only a step back toward the intended tone of the piece but also reinforces the idea that making these kind of things shouldn't be so widely accepted.

[Helmet 1454]

4 hours ago, Tentoa said:

The spirit of it has and always has been something esoteric and taboo that has gradually (And i take partial responsibility for this) been whitewashed by its usefulness as a clinic feat and wacky little freaky friend maker, and including Homunculi in the PK clause is not only a step back toward the intended tone of the piece but also reinforces the idea that making these kind of things shouldn't be so widely accepted.

 

I'm a fan of this amendment overall because i LOVE culling the weak, but i'm not sure what the lore justification would be and if this is the right way to go about bettering the thematics. On one end, yeah it's probably evil/goes against the order of things. But on the other, why would they (as in Aengadaemonics/god or what have you) hate you for this? And why should we deny the people their funny little guys, when Alchemy is known for being morally neutral overall?

 

Perhaps homonculi/klones need to become more grotesque some how as opposed to putting more red tape on it if we're looking to reinforce it's themes of being taboo and unsettling. Bigger PK clauses tend to result in less people committing overall, rather than people changing how they RP me thinks.

 

Maybe we can rewrite the basic Greater Mutations instead, which would apply to Homonculus CAs and Klones? They seem a bit too 'normal' for medieval genetic rewriting. Let them have grotesque aesthetics that CANNOT be overwritten, while not stepping on the shoes of people who just want funny lil NPC chimera creatures. +, this would let people identify what a homonculus/klone is capable of BEFORE they fight them, should the aesthetics of the mutations be on display.

 

As examples, give people/homonculi with augmented senses bulging, bulbous eyes with no discernible iris or with Heightened Dexterity fellas, simply extra (aesthetic) joints which would better explain the blunt dmg weakness thing. imagine every mallet strike along your arm hitting a funny bone as opposed to just the elbow. An exception would be Natural armament as it's already got physical tells. good on it.

Edited February 12 by Helmet

[Tentoa 3160]

4 hours ago, Helmet said:

 

SO, I do see your point on the matter of things. I would personally prefer to go this way rather than to gross up mutations because as of right now, the aesthetics of mutations are largely freeform as with most things in Tawkin- which I am more in line of being a fan of. I don't want to prevent people from using their choice of aesthetic when it comes to tawkin whether that be witcher style veins appearing at the activation of a mutation or body horror stuff. 

I also think that applies to Homunculi - I'm actually a big fan of friendly-looking Homunculi because it betrays their true nature as godawful abominations. Jiro helped make the anime horse girl homunculi but (and credit to Lackanight for really selling this bit) it acts disturbed and is wholly untrustworthy, going so far as to try and maul people for food through Its cage and thinking that if it stops being cute it will cease function as a mascot and be killed - thereby wanting to kill anything cuter than it for survival. 

I think a little red tape is a bit less drastic than forced aesthetics. My main desire is to make the esoteric and dangerous parts of Tawkin esoteric and dangerous by default but allow people who like to use tawkin for clinic RP to continue this without interruption.

[ClassyDryad 2367]

If you want tawkin to be more like how it used to be (based) the path isn't what is effectively an OOC clause (most people rp as if dying is permanent anyways.) If monks still had an actual presence in the narrative maybe but atm it doesn't actually add anything to the lore, nor does it solve the problem it's trying to solve. 

 

I would suggest attempting a rewrite which returns it to being a darker alchemy if you wanted to do it this, rather than adding more PKslop to the lore. Either that or just amending in some changes to the abilities.

[Slorbin 2932]

7 hours ago, Tentoa said:

 Jiro helped make the anime horse girl homunculi 

you WHAT

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

7 hours ago, Tentoa said:

SO, I do see your point on the matter of things. I would personally prefer to go this way rather than to gross up mutations because as of right now, the aesthetics of mutations are largely freeform as with most things in Tawkin- which I am more in line of being a fan of. I don't want to prevent people from using their choice of aesthetic when it comes to tawkin whether that be witcher style veins appearing at the activation of a mutation or body horror stuff. 

I also think that applies to Homunculi - I'm actually a big fan of friendly-looking Homunculi because it betrays their true nature as godawful abominations. Jiro helped make the anime horse girl homunculi but (and credit to Lackanight for really selling this bit) it acts disturbed and is wholly untrustworthy, going so far as to try and maul people for food through Its cage and thinking that if it stops being cute it will cease function as a mascot and be killed - thereby wanting to kill anything cuter than it for survival. 

I think a little red tape is a bit less drastic than forced aesthetics. My main desire is to make the esoteric and dangerous parts of Tawkin esoteric and dangerous by default but allow people who like to use tawkin for clinic RP to continue this without interruption.

What episode of umamusume was this 

[Daisy 9725]

On 2/11/2026 at 8:22 AM, Cheese said:

I feel like homunculi creation deviates slightly from the need for a pk clause just due to the fact that knowing how to make a homunculus isn’t quite the same as making a vessel/juliet potion (in that it doesn’t effect you. Even if it’s the same logic of creating a vessel, i’m sure plenty of people could in theory learn how to make homunculi before knowing how to make klones)

 

The juliet potion part makes sense tho so +0.5

 

I'm in agreement with this point -- I understand the issue with Juliet's but I don't think knowing homunculi should be PK clause. Maybe it's logical, but I think it's overkill and a bit punishing for one of the more interesting parts of Tawkin

[Onnensr 1908]

ill be honest I really don't want to have to pk just because I can create the equivalent on a meat-automaton. it's a pain enough already finding people just to play one, and tawkins is sufficiently gatekept that it continues to make the alchemy bring more downsides than good just to track down and get

it makes sense tho for juliets to bring the same risk as klones 

[Tentoa 3160]

25 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

I'm in agreement with this point -- I understand the issue with Juliet's but I don't think knowing homunculi should be PK clause. Maybe it's logical, but I think it's overkill and a bit punishing for one of the more interesting parts of Tawkin

Given it seems to be the prevailing sentiment, I'll adjust the amendment toward Juliet's alone. Homunculi are hard to find good players for 

EDIT: Removed Homunculi from the PK clause adjustment.

[nepir 472]

I know this worry I have also had it. But observed a distinct line through my own teaching and others. The potion is not given lightly. None of my students get it unless the are klone capable. For the exact reason that the don't have to fear it spreading all over the place. And all TA holders have klones so it self regulates mostly. But I can and fully understand the worry. The PK clause on the potion feels off maybe a experation date to block these to be precent in mass quantities as I see this jumping thing happening when people find a alchemists stash.