Dawn Of Another Day

[Austin 697]

(Why are you all being so anal about it. If you want to freaking get rex then challenge pok.)

[VonAulus 2082]

((I do not want to be Rex, I just want it to be rp'ly legitimately.))

[Austin 697]

[[Goldrim would of lost on purpose anyways we all know that would of happened. Stop being a arse about it.]]

[Cracker 4570]

( they klomped now pok won)

[VonAulus 2082]

[[Goldrim would of lost on purpose anyways we all know that would of happened. Stop being a arse about it.]]

Please act mature Austin, stop saying words like anal and arse. It is offending, it sounds like you are more butthurt then you claim us to be.

[Aryon 679]

[Look, I beat Pok multiple times in PvP today. What does that say? That I could have beaten him in a Rex Klomp. The thing is; I know people would hate me as leader of the Orc's, and quite frankly, I think I would be a horrible leader. It looks like Goldrim chose the person who would help the Orc's thrive the best. Sometimes you need to use OOC, for the sake of RP. If I were made Rex; I would be decent at the RP side. The OOC side; I would literally fail and the Orc's would crumble.]

[Blawharag 277]

((Well firstly, no. The Orcs would just start running themselves, or following a different individual on an OOC level for things. IC the Rex is in charge, but step back and you realize that the Orcs don't need the Rex to do things. Military leaders can organize raids and battles, indeed Pok organized many while Goldrim was Rex, and Goldrim just signed off on it. Honestly, it more comes down to being the face of the War Uzg in meetings and crap IC. But even then, if we really had to, someone else could act as ambassador in Pok's place.

At the end of the day, the Rex title is most important from an IC, RP perspective. I could put my dog the Rex title and the Orcs would still go on. We wouldn't magically crumble. Just saying that doesn't make it true. Take the president of the United States. Does the world stop when he gets assassinated? No. Does the nation just crumble because it's political figure head dies? No. Yes the Rex is morally speaking very important, but that is just all the more reason that it should be handled properly IC.

To respond to your scenario, if you thought you were stronger than Pok (maybe because you just beat him several times in a row) and you were an Elder of your clan, I would absolutely say that you should go for the Rex title (obviously if you were outside the Ugluks, you would have to gun for Wargoth first, unless Pok just decided to accept your Rex challenge outright). ICly, Blawharag believes the Ancestors watch over every duel and determine the outcome according to some greater design (which is why he is very big on pushing traditional arena rules, because he sees each duel as a ritual in and of itself). Therefore, if the Ancestors did not wish you to become Rex, you would lose despite your prior victories. If you did, they have some reason for it in mind, despite your own personal trepidations. Perhaps to teach you where your flaws lie as a leader and shape you into a better one, or because you would make the decision to go to war where Pok may not have. It is all about IC views and beliefs, it is a story that writes itself.

But it doesn't write itself if we break it for no given reason.

Now, Pok and Goldrim dueled an ICly I would assume Goldrim did not throw the duel, despite the fact that he probably did OOCly. That makes it all ok, so this entire conversation is really just the trade of ideas. Which I don't mind, but just be aware that we are no longer trying to debate what should have happened, but have moved on to an exchange in ideology.))

[Goldrim 1422]

((Well firstly, no. The Orcs would just start running themselves, or following a different individual on an OOC level for things. IC the Rex is in charge, but step back and you realize that the Orcs don't need the Rex to do things. Military leaders can organize raids and battles, indeed Pok organized many while Goldrim was Rex, and Goldrim just signed off on it. Honestly, it more comes down to being the face of the War Uzg in meetings and crap IC. But even then, if we really had to, someone else could act as ambassador in Pok's place.

I would actually like to point at that this isn't true {the bolded part}, every war-claim and nearly every event that was organized has been done by me with Havenok's assistance at certain times, I personally believe the Orcs do need a leader figure to guide them, the one that shouts "Shut up!" in TS when they have to, and that person is usually the Rex.

Now I'm not saying that the nation would crumble, but at the point where someone else is doing the Rex's job IC'ly they start questioning the current Rex OOC'ly, whether he is capable of leading the race or not, not everything is done from an IC perspective. }

[Blawharag 277]

((You bring up too separate points, and indeed you are mixing OOC with IC, the first and greatest flaw of RP.

Shouting "Shut up" in TS is not a quality of the Rex. It is the quality of an OOC leader. The Rex is an IC title. As the Rex, ICly you are above all in the War Nation. OOCly, Mogroka can overrule anything made OOCly by the Rex. Certainly the Rex may hold more weight, but at the end of the day, if the Rex says "Shut Up" in TS and Mogroka says "No, keep talking", Mogroka's word beats out the Rex. Because on an OOC level, the hierarchy works differently than IC.

Now I suppose I could be mistaken where Pok's involvement is concerned (which, if Havenok played a bigger role in things, it makes me wonder why you didn't choose him over Pok. But I suppose that is your preference). Regardless, the point is at best the Rex has to sign off on things for them to occur. And if for whatever reason the Rex is being stubborn and acting as a detriment to Orc RP, but no one can seem to beat him in a Rex klomp, then we have options to still get things done.

At the end of the day, the Rex is not necessarily a critical position. Actually, the Wargoth Council has just as much right and power as the Rex does. In fact, the Rex is actually just the title for the leader of the Wargoth Council. So we could replace the title Rex with "exceptionally important Wargoth" or "Bubhosh Wargoth" and it wouldn't change anything.

The IC title often reflects the OOC position because both IC and OOC "rank" is accessed over time. This means both will scale at roughly the same pace. It is false correlation, the true correlating factor is time. In reality IC and OOC position could be completely separate.

Think of it this way. If tomorrow Joe Shmo the Orc reached elder status tomorrow in his clan, then just won the Wargoth and Rex title immediately after that, ICly he would be in charge. OOCly though, Jarkarl, Goldrim, Pok, and everyone else who has been a major part of the Orcs for way longer would all take precedent. It's separation of OOC and IC, thats RP 101.))

[Cracker 4570]

( While OOCly, and even Icly my char has arranged battles and done that kind of stuff, ICly he is far too young and inexperienced to be a Rex, and also OOCly I want to get more orc RP and accomplish more before assuming any heavy titles.

The Rex needs some OOC establishment though, as otherwise it can be difficult commanding and leading during stressful times when IC actions create OOC reactions. While we try to separate the two, it can be difficult for many people and they bled together at times. )

[Goldrim 1422]

Of course, yes, but we need a leader figure, and that's what I meant, but as Havenok mentioned before, his character isn't old enough to even be an Elder, that's why I didn't hand him the position of Rex at that time, or give him the chance to.

Concerning the Wargoth Council, we haven't really used it in a while, I used to do things quite spontaneously and the community agreed with me on nearly all of my decisions, I obviously talked through most of my decisions with the Orcs themselves.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on some things, such as involving IC into OOC, I believe some things just have to be handled OOC'ly in order to prevent chaos and frustration. }

[Blawharag 277]

((I don't think that is acceptable, and while you resolved this ICly this time, understand that if no IC process occurs, it will be treated that way in RP in all future occurrences. To provide an example, if you had just shat on tradition and Orcish law by just handing someone the Rex title without fighting for it, Blawharag would have declared Gromgok a whitewash and disregarded him as an Orc entirely for the remainder of his existence.

Some things have to be dealt with IC, you cannot just ignore the IC side of things, there are consequences to that.))

[Goldrim 1422]

Yes of course, and that is completely acceptable, to my knowledge people were completely fine with the way I passed over my Rex title, even Mogroka approved of it in the manner it was executed, and so I did, but I corrected that to other peoples liking because they had something against it, I don't really see the issue here anymore ;P }

[Blawharag 277]

((Like I said, there is no issue. Just an exchange of ideologies at this point.))