The First Holy Crusade

[Respiren 524]

((It's not really a missionary endeavour though. We're not out to convert and assimilate, we're out to cleanse the land of nonbelievers. At least that's what I've gotten out of this.))

The Roleplay will take place on this forum since most of us cannot get on at the same time. I will post first and then those who were included I ask to post after. Keep it to a minimal to four lines of Roleplay please.

War Claim will be posted for the crusade on: Holm, Enismore, Haelun'or, Menorcress, Armaluna

The phrase minimal roleplay is concerning. Why limit the extent of the Roleplay?

This proposal needs a lot more thought, background roleplay and development before it has a chance to be accepted. The famous christian crusades were ostentatiously concerned with the capture of lands considered sacred and holy to western european christians. This above reads more as conquest for the purpose of ethnic cleansing.

There needs to be prior roleplay ingame for both sides of the coin before such large scale events are initiated - consistent reasoning on the attackers part [they are zealots] alone is not enough to make this sensible or meaningful to those you would be killing.

I feel this needs to go hand in hand with some sort of prior and consistent attempt to assimilate, negotiate reasoned demands or preach, so first contact isn't just pvp with minimal involvement of the defending forces. The battles / events themselves would need to be more organised - with times, durations, dates and an open list of those that have agreed to participate in at least the initial event [attackers and defenders alike]. Yes this may ruin the 'surprise' you are dead factor, though it is necessary if this is to create enjoyable and meaningful rp for all involved.

[ΚΨΙΞ 710]

[stop whining about this its RP, high chances are Oren will be defeated in this so don't act like were all the bad guys here. Stuff happens in RP, deal with it dont moan because you don't want to lose your town.]

[Braxis 813]

[[i notice that only Oren seems to wish for this crusade..? Mog. Oren should not have been re-made in the first place. Your killing RP with this, and most will be leaving of these actions. Please take this into account.. I do not think this will provide anything, but Oren PVP.]]

Will you shut it about mog He just bloody found out about it today! So many bloody people are saying Why mog why? This is you usual Bs. WELL GUESS WHAT MOG DID NOT EVEN FRCKIN KNOW UNTIL A FEW HOURS AGO! And he is on a plane for a few hours and will be gone a few days so he does not fully know whats going on.

-Directed towards several, quoted Tavari for reason.

[Austin 697]

[[i notice that only Oren seems to wish for this crusade..? Mog. Oren should not have been re-made in the first place. Your killing RP with this, and most will be leaving of these actions. Please take this into account.. I do not think this will provide anything, but Oren PVP.]]

Stop ripping on Mogroka. This wasn't his bloody call he has been gone the last while been exetremly sick [While still managing to sneak in game occasionally.] And now he is gone for another 3 days. This post was conjured by Gideon and the whole idea was thought up by Divinus and gideon being the pope granted it, they may of ran it by Godfrey IC. The main goal of oren is the church, and religion our whole RP is based on that.

To say that it shouldn't of been brought back is pretty ridiculous, him reforming Oren has created so much RP it is unbelievable. Arethor is a central hub for roleplay with all of it's sections forming alot of RP of course you wouldn't know this because you are never in Arethor :>.

And to say all it will create is PVP is pretty stupid, nothing is wrong with PVP. It brings people together. Remember the Salvus war? That was the first time the server capped since the move to Asulon. People don't get all worked up and excited for a RP fight, many people enjoy PVP because frankly IMO RP fights are just stupid, it's hard to relay your combat skills in an RP fight, where if you invest your skills in PVP you should be able to use them.

[Mithradites 1168]

[[besides this; Your killing many races and RP groups with this. More then usual, Mog. You will make many people leave with this event. Oren. I honestly suggest this is called off.]]

((Ha! Not to worry about that, Ellisa. It will take a lot more than some upstart Valah conglomerate to stop us being what we are! :D Minor groups are much cooler than major ones, anyway! ;)

"...one does not need war for conflict."

If only more players knew that, Deco!

I think we should allow the people who are involved with this plan RP their stuff now. :) ))

[Respiren 524]

1. Mog does not approve, nor is part of this

2. It has not been accepted and needs lot of work.

[Coaster 2086]

((I believe what Hael is pointing out is that this is one continuous campaign. I believe that history has never had a campaign that started off with the same number of people in the last battle as in the first. Seeing as this is an invasion and cleansing, it is highly unlikely that you would be able to recruit the ones being invaded into your cause either. Therefore, you should be having less people at the end than in the beginning.

I honestly think that this campaign is just a reason for pvp. I have never had any good interaction with the Flay, seeing as you (Coaster) and your 'house' have only ever been to Menorcress three times, with two of them to harass the Mori who wouldn't give you free cake, yes?))

((Do NOT accuse me of trying to find excuses to PVP. If I wanted to PVP I would have brought five fully armored men into Menorcress and raided it. I was heavily pressured into being involved in this because honestly I want nothing to do with it.))

[Divinus 179]

[stop whining about this its RP, high chances are Oren will be defeated in this so don't act like were all the bad guys here. Stuff happens in RP, deal with it dont moan because you don't want to lose your town.]

This is Burkester and myself, we are writing this right now. As I have previously said, Mog was unaware of this war-claim until a few hours ago according the Braxis. Instead of just shooting the idea down right after we post it, why don't we see how this goes? It will be a fun event if we just Rp rather then complain about it. Most of the battles, if there iniated, will be fought through cannon fire from our boats. When we go to one of the X's on the map, we give them a chance. Also, if you want to hate on someone, hate on me, don't go after Mog on this one.

[Samler 1566]

Stop ripping on Mogroka. This wasn't his bloody call he has been gone the last while been exetremly sick [While still managing to sneak in game occasionally.] And now he is gone for another 3 days. This post was conjured by Gideon and the whole idea was thought up by Divinus and gideon being the pope granted it, they may of ran it by Godfrey IC. The main goal of oren is the church, and religion our whole RP is based on that.

To say that it shouldn't of been brought back is pretty ridiculous, him reforming Oren has created so much RP it is unbelievable. Arethor is a central hub for roleplay with all of it's sections forming alot of RP of course you wouldn't know this because you are never in Arethor :>.

And to say all it will create is PVP is pretty stupid, nothing is wrong with PVP. It brings people together. Remember the Salvus war? That was the first time the server capped since the move to Asulon. People don't get all worked up and excited for a RP fight, many people enjoy PVP because frankly IMO RP fights are just stupid, it's hard to relay your combat skills in an RP fight, where if you invest your skills in PVP you should be able to use them.

So what you say is; This is a RP server yet we rather see PvP fights instead of RP fights, sounds like the best plan for a RP server... And I guess Tavari is right about people leaving becouse of this event, people did join a RP server to see RP, not PvP all over the place.

People that wants PvP read my words, join a PvP server.

[Austin 697]

It will be a fun event if we just Rp rather then complain about it.

Some people don't know how to do this unfortunatly.

So what you say is; This is a RP server yet we rather see PvP fights instead of RP fights, sounds like the best plan for a RP server... And I guess Tavari is right about people leaving becouse of this event, people did join a RP server to see RP, not PvP all over the place.

If people leave because they lose then I don't know why they are on here in the first place, and as Respiren said this warclaim still needs work. Instead of complaining RP that Oren is threatening a Crusade. Perhaps work out a deal or something, and yes I was just pointing out a blatant fact that people will log on for a PVP war to be apart of it ;). As well as whenever we[orcs] have battles with the dwarves. No matter who wins both sides admit they had a lot of fun [usually] I've gotten personal messages several times from people asking us [The Orcs] to come raid them to create RP. Most of the time we will lose. Either way I think this War Claim should perhaps have more preparation, like Oren Knights going to each of the places that a letter was sent too, to preach God and if they are denied then so be it. I also have no idea why people are so convinced Oren is going to win look at the opportunities to create RP. Like if ArmaLuna, Holm, Menorcress where to team up and fight this crusade simultaneously, probably if Oren where to lose the crusade would end and it would have to be so long before another can occur.

[Respiren 524]

As I previously said - the crusade needs to be organised and accepted through war claims, and be much more developed through Roleplay. Perhaps repost the original post to be merely an announcement of re-communication to the church.

As for the 'Salvus War' I would say that was a good example of things to avoid when using war-claims, it was forced and non-cooperatively organised - despite the amount of players who logged on to participate when was the last time you saw Dawn on Lotc?

[Coaster 2086]

She quit because she lost, and that's probably the worst way to handle it.

[Respiren 524]

Or because of the constant OOC and IG harrassment, and being stripped of the environment in which her and her friends Roleplayed. It should not have gone ahead. No war that does not have consent of two parties in order to create an event should, or we are only left with disruptive, non consensual combat that disrupts rather than adds to roleplay. In fact, you and your companions abuse the 'raids' to an excessive degree from what I've seen. This is not a PvP server.

[Coaster 2086]

((I would just like clarification, this is one long continuous assault if I am not mistaken. So any men that fall in battle should not be participating in further battles along the length of this crusade. I am not sure how many men you would have left when you reach the farther cities or continents. I do not think even all the fighting men of Oren could accomplish this without a bunch of them fighting in every battle regardless of outcomes or previous fatalities. I personally think this is ridiculous from a manpower standpoint. The army plans to take on a small number of large cities and then an entire nation. Would someone mind explaining how this can be done without 'recycling' players and characters?))

I see what you mean with this. Technically if this Crusade went through, all the people participating ((basically almost all the military power of Oren since they're being forced)) would have to stay away from Oren for the better part of an IG year. I'm not sure how this would work, because I doubt people want to stay on boats for such a long period time but for it to make sense, the fighting men would be away and Oren for the most part would be defenseless. I don't know the logistics of it, but this seems pretty flawed at the moment.

[Will (TauFirewarrior) 2466]

(( I do have to say, I'm not big on this Crusade I am part of Oren, I have seen people complaining saying historical Crusades were about taking land sacred to Christianity, but Crusades were not always about gaining land that is sacred to a certain religion. Ethnic cleansing has been a part of several crusades I am going to reference the Northern Crusades that the Teutonic Order the real one headed against any and all pagans. Though there has been no mention of killing a people of a certain religion. Otherwise this is just a Venetian style crusade which is looking for plunder and riches and in my opinion Oren is far from a Venetian style nation due to their fanatical worship of God rather than Venice looking for what can improve them. Though I must say if this Crusade is to go ahead, the forces taking part of this crusade shouldn't be allowed to take part of any War Claims that may be on the mainland since that would be considered desertion of the Crusade and would force in some sort of punishment. If the lore for this Crusade is worked up a bit better I will be in more support. This is just my two cents I hope someone takes it into consideration. ))