Giving Mobs Rp Purpose In 4.0; Antagonist Idea

[Emp 209]

Hullo guys,

 

I made a post about this on Richard of Mallister's topic requesting the removal of mobs (http://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/108650-remove-mobs/), but as I developed it, I felt that it warranted an idea topic of its own; specifically concerning 4.0, as I presume there's more time/chance for it to be considered and, should there be support for it, implemented.

 

The problem highlighted in that thread, and evident in many RP interactions, is that mobs have become a hindrance and a nuisance to RP - everybody has witnessed characters attacked by mobs mid-conversation, fend them off, and then continue with little to no RP regarding it. It makes no sense IC (I'm not even aware of any lore regarding it), so they ignore it.

Whether that's right or wrong is not my issue, but I propose a solution in which:

 - Mobs are removed from where they're not conducive to RP,

 - Put into a context where they are conducive; they're readily available to those who need/want them,

 - People who are frustrated by PvE and random mob swarms are catered to,

 - People who love PvE, action, loot, etc. are catered to,

 - Fantasy RP atmosphere is maintained,

and probably a few other beneficial elements..

 

So, the grand idea that I've got floating around in my head, and will try to convey, is a concept wherein there are areas that are effectively perpetual war-zones. I expect that a connection to whatever 4.0 antagonist arises would justify this. This would also create an antagonist presence felt by all players, were it to be implemented. Rather than a matter of being in the right time-zone, for the right event, there's always a battlefield for adventurers, guilds, etc. to work together in facing the advancing tide of evil. I imagine there would be guilds taking on such purposes as the Night's Watch (easy example; I'm not suggesting ASoIaF/GoT-copying), dedicated to holding back the dark forces, and regularly stage expeditions into this hostile area.

This is also spares non-warrior characters from having to survive in a world constantly plagued by mobs. Please note, I don't mean to propose an end to sense of danger on roads, but that this should be provided by the looming threat of bandits and such.

 

Now, we know what the 4.0 map will look like, but the purposes of some areas are still unknown

 

I don't know what the purpose of that area stretching into The Void is, but I imagine it's supernatural, ominous, basically suitable for antagonist territory. Similarly, I don't know any details about 4.0's antagonist, so I'll throw some vague ideas around.

Perhaps there's some portal they're using, bringing an invading horde of minions through to take over the world of A__?__. Or perhaps they've got some evil base there, and are creating their zombies in a similar fashion to Morgoth's creation of the orcs in Tolkien's lore, or Isengard spawning the Uruk-hai in The Two Towers (Again, examples). Thus, mobs are given an RP justification for their presence in the world, and peoples' desire to kill them.

A antagonist explanation for my proposal is easily achieved.

 

Now, what the area could be like.. You could compare it to the North in G.R.R.M.'s A Song of Ice and Fire, but what I like to think of it as is something like the following:

In the book series, The Wheel of Time (Fantastic, by the way, if you like fantasy!), there's this main continent, but along its northern edge (omg the north) is this desolate region called the Blight, and above that, the deeper regions of The Blasted Lands. Therein lies a mountain (omg mount doom) wherein the overarching antagonist, the Dark One, is imprisoned. Stick with me. The seals on his prison are faulted; hordes of mutated, monstrous beasts called Trollocs regularly attempt to push through the Borderlands.

There is a culture of honour, duty, grimness, etc. prevalent in the Borderlands, where people are used to the ever-present threat of destruction. They basically protect the rest of the world from this physical embodiment of evil through their constant warring state; this, of course, does not mean that evil is not present in the world.

I hope this example isn't too vague or boring for you to read through, but I've tried to make it concise, and, in doing so, haven't done justice to the series.

 

So, I envision an environment wherein, if someone wanted to establish an edgy guild of world-protectors (which, in this context, would be exponentially more suitable) or a city with a duty-bound culture, my concept offers the opportunity for that. It also means that there's an environment for Halflings and High Elves, etc.; peoples that would be far from physical evil, and perhaps take peace for granted - will also result in any antagonist events having a profound impact upon these communities, which, I suppose such events as the destruction of Lin'evaral did quite well.

I almost forgot to touch on the actual battlefield; a place of devastation, the dying grounds of all races and mobs. Something of a perpetual Field of Dagorlad. High spawn rates, or spawners, could ensure that it's always populated.

This point quickly makes me think of the issue of lag, but I expect that the stress would be negated by the absence of mobs elsewhere in the world. Also, I think that with the right atmosphere, literal hordes are not needed, just enough to ensure a constant source of combat. There could be a physical environment preventing players from progressing into the far reaches of the Void - effectively the Black Gates of Mordor; impassable terrain, impenetrable antagonist fortress, wall of bodies - Thermopylae style, etc., but from which spew forth the servants of evil.

And always, guilds, etc., are able to organise expeditions into the Void, to fulfill missions set by the Event Team, perhaps, or simply harvest as much loot as possible. This might even justify bringing back some of the removed mobs - Skeletons, etc. I feel that this is more achievable in its simplicity compared to the ambitious task of organising players for the Anthosian antagonist to have any foothold in the world.

 

Random Google images to get my point across:

 

Also, don't misunderstand me - I don't want to suggest that no mobs appear outside of this area. I expect that the Minecraft-generated terrain would be suitable for mob-spawning, as it is basically the Wilds equivalent. Antagonist events; invasions, etc. would bring mobs into the world when there's an RP need for them. I never witnessed a single Anthosian antagonist event, being in an off-peak timezone. I only ever saw the aftermath, RP hubs destroyed, posts and videos about all the fun, etc. With this, players in every timezone are able to interact with the antagonist in the way that we were all promised last year.

 

Maybe this will also allow people to vent their need for action, and alleviate some of the OOC problems arising when the only war RP people get is fighting each other.

 

Whilst I have discussed antagonist ideas, the main purpose of this is regarding the implementation of PvE in 4.0, and I hope that there is still 'room' for development.

 

Well, that's it for now. Hopefully it makes sense. I invite arguments against; hopefully some productive discussion can arise. I personally see a great deal of potential, but, of course, this needs to correlate with the wishes of a community diverse in values, and the plan of the 4.0 development team. I feel confident that this idea caters to the different contentions regarding mobs in LotC.

 

-braces for impact, and fixes typos-

 

 

All TL;DR comments will be regarded with exasperation, and a heavy sigh ;P

[mmat 7460]

If the staff stick to what was voted on when I was a GM regarding the antagonist, a lot of the mobs like zombies will already have a purpose when it comes into play, and the natural mobs like spiders already have rp purpose anyway.

[Hiebe 2493]

Good job, I like it. When I was on another server I suggested reskinning zombies to bandits and skeles to goblins. Idk ive seen plugins where you can have custom mobs with different damages and skins. Would be interesting to.fight zombies in one area and goblins in another and such.

[Emp 209]

If the staff stick to what was voted on when I was a GM regarding the antagonist, a lot of the mobs like zombies will already have a purpose when it comes into play, and the natural mobs like spiders already have rp purpose anyway.

 

And that doesn't really convince nor excite me. Mobs can be given adequate lore to justify them being in the world, sure; but that's not the contention of what I've written. As it is, mobs do not contribute to RP; they detract from interactions, and otherwise annoy people. They're in LotC as an MC mechanic; my proposal is for them to be an effective form of RP storytelling and player engagement.

[Swgrclan 2682]

I like this warzone idea. I've been trying to emulate this kind of concept in the piece of land between the Black Scourge infantry-portal and Vekaro's borders, and thus far it appears to have generated good feedback. I like this post, well done.

[-♣- Ƙindled -♣- 203]

Sweden agrees. 

[Lago 2572]

I don't know whether people suggesting the things I put in 4.0 is a bad thing because it makes it look like I'm looting the forums rather than actually coming up with the stuff myself or a good thing because if it pops into someone else's head it probably isn't a bad idea.

By which I mean there's probably at least one area like this (a regioned area with a heavy mob presence and a story behind it) on the new map.

[Aengoth 2890]

If pulled off well this could end up being brilliant. Gives an easy early start to antagonist activity without having the same issue in 3.0 where the antagonist never truly took off for far too long. Further this allows such a simplistic antagonist to emerge at the start, it's not some grand demonic being at first to the playerbase. It'd be simply armies of abominations constantly trying to expand into our homes. As time would length and more and more expeditions would take place we'd slowly learn more and more about the big picture antagonist, not just have it slap us in the face on a Tuesday saying "Setherin's here *****!" (dramatic obviously joking example, nonetheless). Players could join up as exiles finding themselves home amongst these beasts and serving amongst them as champions against the races. My thoughts are rather scattered at this point (It's late) so here's some of the random frequent thoughts.

• Gives players more to kill then each other and some could make fortunes off this or earn some sort of prestige amongst there people for slaying these invading beasts.
• Antagonists could simply be characters who could walk about these lands unharmed and help the mobs butcher people. They slap on some iron armour or use some magic plugin and good to go as being elites of this mob army.
• Creates a constant raid area without limits, meaning Dwarves or Lucienists could easily send out twenty people to exterminate a large portion of the beasts to acquire resources and train up.
• Further Antagonists could be given the chance to expand there lands weekly so as to keep the need for upholding these forts and training folks.
• Not so demanding that nations will not be forced to solely focus on the threat outside the borders.
• Flexible enough that multiple areas could be created so as to keep multiple groups engaged.

Plenty plenty more could be said and proposed about this.

[Emp 209]

I don't know whether people suggesting the things I put in 4.0 is a bad thing because it makes it look like I'm looting the forums rather than actually coming up with the stuff myself or a good thing because if it pops into someone else's head it probably isn't a bad idea.

By which I mean there's probably at least one area like this (a regioned area with a heavy mob presence and a story behind it) on the new map.

 

Hahah.

 

Even though our great minds may think alike, having this mob area is only one part of the message. I'd like to know whether removing mobs from everywhere else is a possibility - addressing the fact that mobs don't help RP. Implementing this action-packed biome isn't effective if the rest of the peaceful world is being spammed with mobs anyway.

 

I and a great number of people are frustrated with the purposeless interference of mobs in situations where they really don't fit in, and are an immersion-breaking, MC-Mechanic menace.

 

 

Anyway, thanks for the support and discussion thus far, guys; I like those thoughts, Aengoth!

[Lago 2572]

I'm also a supporter of hefty mob overhauls (plenty of threads lying around to testify to that). The only hostile mob I'd leave is the spider, and I'd buff it and decimate (by the true meaning) its spawn rate.

You then have to reassign the mob drops, but you can easily put rotten meat on the spider and bones on all the farmyard animals.

[Overland 349]

  Personally, I think the only issue that is present (or what I can see so far,) is what would happen to keep the roads feeling 'unsafe' at night. Monsters can be/are an annoyance and I agree that is a very valid point and part of the idea of this thread. Yet monsters play a decent role in keeping the night dangerous.

 

  Now this raises the question: does the night need to be dangerous? I'd still rather there be some effect in the night. As Aelidar and I discussed earlier, the threat could come from RP instead of RP-PvE (which is apparently what we're doing right now from what I've gathered.) Nonetheless, I think it's worth a shot to try without mobs and see what the results are; it's not a permanent thing when we experiment.

[Emp 209]

  Personally, I think the only issue that is present (or what I can see so far,) is what would happen to keep the roads feeling 'unsafe' at night. Monsters can be/are an annoyance and I agree that is a very valid point and part of the idea of this thread. Yet monsters play a decent role in keeping the night dangerous.

 

  Now this raises the question: does the night need to be dangerous? I'd still rather there be some effect in the night. As Aelidar and I discussed earlier, the threat could come from RP instead of RP-PvE (which is apparently what we're doing right now from what I've gathered.) Nonetheless, I think it's worth a shot to try without mobs and see what the results are; it's not a permanent thing when we experiment.

 

I understand your point, but the thing is that on one hand some might want dangerous roads, but then on the other the community wants RP on roads - there was that whole discussion about how nobody 'hails' anyone anymore. It doesn't happen because people have time to engage in RP; they don't have time to do so because it's either nearing night or already is, and they're going to be pummeled by mobs. I see this every time I try and RP as my roadside caravan entertainer - people walk up out of interest, RP starts, mobs appear out of nowhere, they try and fend them off; I'm waving a sword from the stage - it's ridiculous! People don't want to risk it - OOC mobfests are why they don't stop to watch and engage in RP. And so, I don't think that the PvE danger felt on roads is worth the toll on potential conversational RP.

 

The threat on roads should stem from RP causes - bandits, etc. - they're what made me scared of going along Brigand's Pass to Abresi! My villain encounters made me wary of the roads; mobs didn't. With mobs, you're going to travel anyway, and either kill or dodge them. RP is something people enjoy - even villain RP, and LotC's rules deter dodging RP. Dangerous RP is what is needed, not dangers to RP. LotC and everything that I see cultivated in this community is for the development of quality RP; in their current state, Mobs =/= RP.

[Silent™ 552]

Keep all the mobs out of where they don't make any sense to be. I like it.

 

I can only think of them having any RP reason to be on our side of the canyon is because a few of them wander across the wilderness and canyon, but when they start getting close to any cities or roads, the guards would just kill them. However were the players to go beyond the canyon biome and into the wilderness, they would find themselves surrounded by hundreds of incredibly tough monsters. And maybe if they were to go out far enough, they could find (just my idea) these pools of swirling dark energy in these ancient ruins from which the monsters come forth. At each of these pools there could also be some very powerful artifacts, but getting them would be near impossible as the mobs right near the pools guarding them are god-like, in that they are fully armored with huge amounts of health, super speed, and will send you flying 20 yards with one swing.

 

Now we could make it similar to GoT, in that we have a guild of players who's sole job is to stand guard at the canyon, and could send expeditions of their own ranks, and some adventurers, into the wilderness.

 

So I say, make it so.

[Graceful Bucko 65]

Concurrin'.

 

While we're suggesting things...

Hadouken for Pyromancers.

[Aengoth 2890]

This isn't receiving enough attention as it should be. It's a simplistic and very effective way of appeasing multiple groups. You have those who want mobs so they can murder them for minas as a profession who now have specific areas in which the efficiency of this is greatly improved. Then you've got those who find mobs to be nothing but a bother not having to deal with the mobs. However this adds the possible consequence of outright ignoring the mobs as it would eventually progress to be spawning right in your backyard meaning that those who do not want the mobs are going to have to get involved with combating them. Further the military orders would be more occupied which leads to less boredom as it would be primarily there job to halt the mobs from advancing there occupied (where they spawn) territory. This further leads to giving ET's very easy event material with antagonist approach as they could spawn more mobs (would require a tech implementation to no aggro mobs on given players if I'm not mistaken) and have those mobs clash with players in a trench war style of battle.

tl;dr

• This idea excites me and is one of the first I would sign up to actively involved in.
• Plenty of possibilities
• ​Provides a decent compromise between the two arguments of having mobs on LotC.
• With some techs magic could end up being very helpful start up for antag events. Similar in the style of a kill em all zombie invasion but with that magic you could have some solid player involvement too.
• Don't let the idea just die out, better then our current view on mobs.