Your View: Let's Talk Magic

[1 1393]

If you find roleplaying boring, it's no one's problem but yours.

 

The problem with self teach is that it's also moreso prone to powergaming than those who got a player to ICly teach them, and without magic applications or a magic team around, it's impossible to properly regulate it, and without regulation we'd just end up with 5 minute master mages which kills the point of having locked subtypes to begin with.

 

I've also done self teach, and if not for the fact that back then teachers were so freakishly restricted to how many students they can take and how long to keep them, I would have went that route. I've also made mistakes with magic RP that shouldn't have been made if I was taught in RP.

I don't find it boring, but some people find the way that some people teach magic boring. I /had/ to self teach as I was a snelf, and no one in their right mind wanted to teach a snelf. But now, we should make self teaching require applications, and for teaching for the teacher to just approve them.

[Kaiser 2347]

well, not to bash but, yes, everyone knows magic now a days. Everyone also powergames magic (not like they don't PG in general, though).

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're probably not going to get the old ways of 'magic being scarce' unless you were to remove self teaching and make it so you need a tutor/teacher for magic.. The thing is, really, so many people know magic at the moment that it'd be too late- so many people know magic that everyone would teach everyone else.

 

Probably best you don't bring back MAs, they were a boring and broken system- but my point is, look at most of the heavily locked magics. They're often (though, not always) filled with good RPers due to the fact you need a teacher, and hours of RP. Those who aren't ready (due to their **** rp or bad OOC behavior) for those types of magics never get accepted to learn Druidic magic or the Dark arts or that weird shapeshifting magic. Not that I want to blanket the WHOLE magic system, but it seems like teaching/locking magic to a high degree keeps RP fresh, friendly, and interesting. Just a thought.

[Elindor 666]

Reflections on Monk Magic

I wrote an IC book on the oddity of scarring in our realm. In short it reads thus: Some wounds we associate as being an integral part of our being and existence. The injury has so shaped us that we subconsciously wear a scar on our soul. Thus when a monk goes to repair the body the scar, injury, disfigurement etc., remains.

 

The roleplayers who allow their characters to shape a larger story and are willing to surrender OOC control of events will wear the consequences because their character is the dominant driving force of plot. They'll get scars, become blind or lame or have a stiff knee. But for the ones who just want to cycle through getting in trouble and then turning up the next day just fine, we've never gotten in the way of that and it is a key mechanic in many videogames that would be horrifying to remove. They must be granted the freedom to "respawn" if they wish.

 

I disagree with further locking magics. However there is merit in making teachers compulsory. On such a thing it should be the Server's policies that creates the overruling decision, and not the divided opinions of those who can shout the loudest. If this server wants you to be free to tell your story, then simple magic types must remain open. If the server instead believes in instructing people of the formula for telling their story, then lock em all.

 

Is there something wrong with everyone knowing magic? Nope. If a central part of our lore is that the Creator granted the mortals access to the Void to perform magic (and in response certain aenguls/daemons felt it perfectly acceptable that they likewise grant magical powers) then why wouldn't a large portion of the people have magic? The only limiting factor for Void Magic is that you have a mind capable of it, and for deity is that you fulfil that aengudaemons desire of you.

 

During the days of MAT being dissolved we were identifying it as a defining moment in whether magic would become a common part of life in Athera (of which there is nothing wrong unless you have a contrary viewpoint) or if what made it special would be ferociously defended. There was no instruction or ruling from Staff so it was free to become what the players desired. If that means that Athera is a place in which magic lives and thrives in many, then so be it. That is a wonderful and beautiful part of our universe.

 

You cannot (without great strain) come along now and attempt to bring back uniqueness to magic because it has become something that defines Athera and the people within it. So now the only thing that can be done is actions precisely like this thread: to ask what problems there are and identify ways to address them more specifically. Magic as an entirety (if its presence is as widespread as the vocal lay claim) cannot be shifted so grandly OOC without a massive strain upon our IC universe.

[Eleatic 1033]

Yes, there is a big problem. Two, I might say.

 

The first, and biggest, is Monk Magic. People who received crippling injured, lost limbs, became blind etc. can just, right now, go "MONKZ HURR DURR" and have everything fixed straight away. This angers me so much I cannot even describe.

 

An other problem is how easy becoming proficient in Voidal Magic is. You can make powerful mages straight away, and most of the people that do this tend to RP horribly / Powergame.

 

No idea how this could be fixed.

(Player) Monk Magic don't work like that, man. That's an issue with the player, not the monks.

[Dohvi 622]

Alrighty. Now I'm gonna drop a few of the infameous R-bombs in this post, but hear me out. I've been RPing magic for a couple years now, taught and self-taught, guild-locked and unlocked. That doesn't mean my opinion is automatically right, but it does mean it's based on my personal experiences and observations.

The problems:

Magic is currently far too easy for a character to get. The issue with this is not that mages are common or anything of the sort, but that there's very few measures in place to teach these mages how to RP their magic properly. Some take the time and put in the effort to learn it properly, but there's no real incentives to do so, or consequences for not doing it.

As has already been discussed, the mastering of magic is also becoming an issue. Once a character learns the magic, there's basically just a timer ticking down until they master it. For some players, this is happening far too quickly, while others take longer. Regardless of how long they take, mastering it is the end result. And this stays the same no matter many subtypes a character learns.

My solutions:

Right. So I'm not gonna just complain about what's wrong, and say it should be fixed. Talking about the possible solutions is more interesting than talking about the problems in my opinion. So I'll start this by saying I don't think bringing back magic apps is a good idea. To effectively implement that you'd need to first wipe all magic, and that's going to upset people so much so that it's simply not worth it. Instead, it's time for those R-bombs.

Regulation and restriction.

I highly recommend the complete removal of self-teaching and locking all subtypes. I've learnt magic with a teacher, and I've self taught, and the quality of magic-learning roleplay just doesn't compare. To self-teach properly is boring, and I can admit I would've taken shortcuts if there was no MAT at the time. At least we actually had an overseer to help us then though.

Nowadays, self-taught mages have to take inititive and go out of their way to get help. The role of a teacher is so much more than a source of IC knowledge. They're someone experienced who can give advice on how to properly RP the magic.

That's the extent of the regulation I think is needed. The idea of a blacklist seems silly, but people don't grt banned for powergaming unless it's severe powergaming, so I'd we focus on teaching them how to do it properly rather than just waiting for them to screw up and pouncing on them then.

Now for the restriction part. People won't like this because it requires they give up some of their toys. I suggest two restrictions in an attempt to improve magic roleplay. First of all, in the days of the MAT we were limited to three subtypes per character. Now I understand the push to four after they were disbanded, but some people have pushed it further. Any more than four magic subtypes is outright powergaming and lore-breaking, because of A) the amount of practice required to remain skilled at them and B) the level of physical corruption and degradation from that much magic. Magic weakens the body, remember. I suggest a limit to the amount of subtypes one character can possess at a single time. Four at the most.

The second restriction is what I see as one of the only ways to deal with the issue that everyone is a master. Regardless of whether taught or self-taught, learnt post-MAT or during the MAT, I suggest each character only be able to master one of their subtypes. All the rest could be adept, skilled, proficient, whatever you want to call it. But I believe this is a fairly moderate way of making sure there's regular mages as well as all the master mages present now.

I'm not proposing you choose between mastering your magic and having multiple subtypes. Only that you only master one of them. When everyone can be a master of everything, then no one is a master of anything. Master is the current average. For me, this would mean nerfing the power of a subtype I've roleplayed for 92 weeks, so I don't make the suggestion lightly, but I think only letting mages master one of their subtypes would help with the issue of everyone roleplaying the upsides of magic mastery, while no one RPs its downsides.

Note:

I fully understand the arguement that there's nothing like this for swords, bows and all the other weapons. So why should mages not just be treated exactly the same as swordsmen? Because of lore.

Lotc has its own lore for how magic works on this server. How other weapons work is the same on lotc as it is irl, and in other fictional universes. Magic however varies, and I think it's important players are learning how to RP lotc magic, not magic from the last game they played.

tl;dr: Remove self-teaching and lock all subtypes. Limit mages to 4 subtypes, and only let them be a master of 1 at a time.

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

If it was up to me,

 

inb4 h8 storm

 

I would basically make it so everyone would have to start Magic from scratch, other then a few people who are guild owners, or have roleplayed magic with proof months before and put in years worth of time or whatever. Have everyone start from scratch and be sure to lock all magic types. Only way magic should be taught is from a teacher. I know people will ***** and moan, but I can gaurentee Magic Roleplay will increase in quality drastically.

[Lima 774]

The second restriction is what I see as one of the only ways to deal with the issue that everyone is a master. Regardless of whether taught or self-taught, learnt post-MAT or during the MAT, I suggest each character only be able to master one of their subtypes. All the rest could be adept, skilled, proficient, whatever you want to call it. But I believe this is a fairly moderate way of making sure there's regular mages as well as all the master mages present now.

I'm not proposing you choose between mastering your magic and having multiple subtypes. Only that you only master one of them. When everyone can be a master of everything, then no one is a master of anything. Master is the current average. For me, this would mean nerfing the power of a subtype I've roleplayed for 92 weeks, so I don't make the suggestion lightly, but I think only letting mages master one of their subtypes would help with the issue of everyone roleplaying the upsides of magic mastery, while no one RPs its downsides.

I absolutely agree with this. I understand people will complain that they cannot be a master of 2 magics at once or that their going to have to retro-RP some parts but in reality these arts each and of their own are a lifetime skill. To spend your life perfecting your illusions would mean you had little time to perfect your enchanting.

Variety will come from co-operation, instead of every mage being a cure all it encourages co-operative RP to occur for creations and I believe this will help diversify and assist the roleplay environment for arcane magics. 

[Bobby123 115]

Yeh.. magic needs to be regulated in some way, i think ouity's idea 'bout having anyone prove they have a teacher, again it brings back rp to groups such as Ironguts, Magic guild, maybe even high elfs :O, But its stupid just seeing kids fight 4 people with a sword then 'blast' the head off someone with a fireball two seconds later, when questioned about it they just tell you to bugger off and stop limiting there rp, when they are rping poor away... the use of a teacher is annoying and time consuming but it makes sure people don't PG there way around and it also teaches people how to rp there magic correctly and in some cases rp correctly overall. I think if you lock em all up n' make people prove who taught them, if they are 'iffy' like you don't really believe them, test them out, make them rp a little fight or something etc.

[Catarrh 720]

 Remember, extremes are bad, but people keep going from one extreme to the other, instead of trying to find a middle ground.

 

 

  I think I agree with everything you said, Jistuma, but this most of all. Whether it's the magic problem or the combat default or what have you, there's a nasty tendency to think the only way to solve a problem is to go as far in the opposite direction as possible. Then you just end up with a new set of problems. Locking the magics definitely seems like the right way to go. Most of the worst mages are people who just made mages right away without knowing anything about the magic, because they're allowed to. The how would be tricky though. I feel like we'd have to just wait until they all got bored and pk'd/left the server (terrible plan), or some kinda magic blacklist (also probably a bad idea, and likely easily abused. I'm not recommending it at all. Don't hate me for saying it!) So, short of just some GM saying "You suck at magic rp. Magic revoked!" (which would have some obvious problems) I don't know if there's a way to do it too smoothly. However it gets done, I think locking the magics again is what we need. Maybe they just need to lock it up as is, and let the crappy master wizards run their course or something. 

[Cyndikate 2303]

They should remove the arbritrary notion that mages can take on 5 people and the statements that they are no more powerful than a warrior. The level of magic's power should depend on the magic and the player using it. If the user is clever enough that it's possible to come up with ways to take on 10 people with fire magic provided he followed the guidelines of his magic, who are we to stint his creativity?

What should the level of magic really be? As strong as the creative make it out to be. The real truth of it is, it depends on the magic, the character, the player and his progression with magic.

[DISCOLIQUID 2729]

I just want to freely role-play my magic fairly with other people. Stop taking away my tools. Here's a challenge. Get me 8 screenshots of people power gaming magic. I dare you. 

[mitto 2312]

Moved to The Great Library. It shall be sorted into the appropriate category shortly.

 

If you feel this is a mistake, please contact myself or any FM and we'll restore it.