The Freelands

[Flapman 625]

Just now, zaezae said:

My point is that there is a basic kind of RP prevented so nations can get spoon fed noob RP.

 

It's like, right there.  

 

So you are saying that giving players an incentive to get engaged in the community is a bad thing because you hate nations? Even though it's proven time and time again that that is the best way for players to stay on the server for longer than a week. Am I still missing something or what?

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Flapman said:

 

So you are saying that giving players an incentive to get engaged in the community is a bad thing because you hate nations? Even though it's proven time and time again that that is the best way for players to stay on the server for longer than a week. Am I still missing something or what?

 

I'm saying that forcing new players to jump through hoops to just do the most basic of things just to ensure special nations can get free RP is bad, yes. No I do not hate nations.

 

[Ever 2648]

At this point, both sides are just repeating the same argument trying to beat some sense into the opposition. We're not really going anywhere with these discussions! While I don't want to discourage discussion by any means, please make sure you're being respectful and actually contributing to the topic.

For those worried about terrible builds, here are some/all of the builds I could find so far, about 24 hours after the announcement. Obviously all builds won't be of this quality, but who knows? They might be! I'll be screenshotting and documenting how this project goes and the information will be posted in a thread one month from now.

 

[Flapman 625]

Just now, zaezae said:

I'm saying that forcing new players to jump through hoops to just do the most basic of things just to ensure special nations can get free RP is bad, yes. No I do not hate nations.

 

 

You talk about nations in a very negative way, that's why I am assuming that. You are talking about "giving nations free rp" and you make it sound like this is something that is holding new players back from enjoying the server, even though I can say from personal experience that I did not start enjoying the server untill I got engaged in a nation. 

 

I don't think anything I'm going to say is going to change your opinion though, so I'll just leave it at that.

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Flapman said:

 

You talk about nations in a very negative way, that's why I am assuming that. You are talking about "giving nations free rp" and you make it sound like this is something that is holding new players back from enjoying the server, even though I can say from personal experience that I did not start enjoying the server untill I got engaged in a nation. 

 

I don't think anything I'm going to say is going to change your opinion though, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Well no, I do not hate nations. I do not love nations either, so they are not protected from my critical thinking. I have concluded that nations are given an unreasonable amount of consideration and protection, or in other words, a special snowflake status. 

Try to understand this though. That was your experience and not what everyone might experience. Some players might want space to do what they want and let whatever nation they associate with to happen organically. When I first started this server, I lived in a town that was apart of Oren nearest the border to orcs and elves. I was far enough that I could farm and mine by myself to get a feel for the mechanics. I traveled to New Abersi when I wanted to RP. That doesn't reflect everyone however, and I understand that the most reasonable thing for us to do would be to leave options for new players instead of forcing them into a nation. I might have quit if I had to start the game by begging. 

 

That said, if you believe that, then so be it. I'm not trying to have the last word except that I didn't think my point was properly explained. 

[Guest]

Just now, zaezae said:

Well no, I do not hate nations. I do not love nations either, so they are not protected from my critical thinking. I have concluded that nations are given an unreasonable amount of consideration and protection, or in other words, a special snowflake status. 

Try to understand this though. That was your experience and not what everyone might experience. Some players might want space to do what they want and let whatever nation they associate with to happen organically. When I first started this server, I lived in a town that was apart of Oren nearest the border to orcs and elves. I was far enough that I could farm and mine by myself to get a feel for the mechanics. I traveled to New Abersi when I wanted to RP. That doesn't reflect everyone however, and I understand that the most reasonable thing for us to do would be to leave options for new players instead of forcing them into a nation. I might have quit if I had to start the game by begging. 

 

That said, if you believe that, then so be it. I'm not trying to have the last word except that I didn't think my point was properly explained. 

The reason why is because nations are an integral part of role-play, the setting of where you are is an important factor in the ideals your character personally holds and how they evolve. Obviously there'll always be more outcasted factions but in all honesty, nation role-play helps the server thrive. It's like magic in a sense, everybody either loves it a lot or hates it to death.

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Gorget said:

The reason why is because nations are an integral part of role-play, the setting of where you are is an important factor in the ideals your character personally holds and how they evolve. Obviously there'll always be more outcasted factions but in all honesty, nation role-play helps the server thrive. It's like magic in a sense, everybody either loves it a lot or hates it to death.

 

 

Actually, all roleplay is integral to role-play. I simply cannot understand why nations should get special treatment. I mean, Oren, elves, orcs, dwarves, their nations are already strong enough to get whatever they need. I mean, I have no issues with some logistical help. Like, Felson 2.0 shouldn't have to be built by hand. Sure. But the system shouldn't be designed with only nations in mind. Nations are not the only, nor really even the best RP for everyone. They will always exist anyway.

[Guest]

Just now, zaezae said:

Actually, all roleplay is integral to role-play. I simply cannot understand why nations should get special treatment. I mean, Oren, elves, orcs, dwarves, their nations are already strong enough to get whatever they need.

No, not all role-play is integral to role-play. That's a paradoxal statement, role-play is conducive to a setting which influences the characters, their practices, and how they behave. More or less, the 'setting' itself is given more leeway, not just our beloved nations -- it's not unthinkable to acknowledge that if many people lurk some place it'll get special treatment -- presuming there is any, I'd appreciate if you cited an example because I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're trying to strike home. 

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Gorget said:

No, not all role-play is integral to role-play. That's a paradoxal statement, role-play is conducive to a setting which influences the characters, their practices, and how they behave. More or less, the 'setting' itself is given more leeway, not just our beloved nations -- it's not unthinkable to acknowledge that if many people lurk some place it'll get special treatment -- presuming there is any, I'd appreciate if you cited an example because I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're trying to strike home. 

 

Conversely, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm not being snarky, but I really do not understand this post. 

[Guest]

Just now, zaezae said:

Conversely, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm not being snarky, but I really do not understand this post. 

I'm saying that it's only natural the actual setting of some place gives people more leeway for special treatment, which is fine since it's not just them being catered to. I honestly can't think of any real benefit nations have besides the occasional use of LC. 

[zaezae 1098]

15 minutes ago, Gorget said:

I'm saying that it's only natural the actual setting of some place gives people more leeway for special treatment, which is fine since it's not just them being catered to. I honestly can't think of any real benefit nations have besides the occasional use of LC. 

 

 

Oh, well I am simply saying that certain aspects of the server are built to benefit nations. If you look through some of these posts, people regularly cite omitting free-ish building areas helps nations, and so, should be omitted. I'm basically arguing, in less than choice language, that nations should not get a consideration in these design choices. Just like putting a desert somewhere will effect my frostie RP. A single desert should not be rebuked because of that fact. The same would be true for any design that makes nations impossible, or, making the entire map hot desert.

[Dan0127 4]

More road sign can be made leading to the small villages, great!

 

[Hobolympic 1093]

Seems a lot of people are not fond of freebuild, and I can't help but disagree with them. Honestly, some of my best times on this server have been where the lands were open for all kinds of people to settle. More specifically, I'm talking about Aegis and the Fringe. 

 

Both of these maps had to a certain extent unlimited freebuild, giving rise to new factions to interact with, incentive to tour and explore, and generally speaking pulled in a lot of new and fresh RP.

 

Yes, there's no denying that a few bad builds will come of this, but being unable to interact with environment for miles on end dulls the experience of travelling considerably. I miss the times when at night you could plop down a campfire with your mates, or set up a shack somewhere in the wild just to gather resources and roleplay with some new neighboors.

 

You guys are blowing the cons way out of proportion. If keeping RP centralized in your nation is difficult, create more incentive for RP rather than scapegoating freebuild, because as I recall, the Fringe was perhaps the most active time I've seen the server in a long time (granted, the map was considerably smaller, something I've always been in favor of). Besides, we probably got one month left on this map, so for all I care, unregion as much land as possible.

[Krism 67]

This seems like a really good idea. Since 5.0 should be around very soon, i hope this will keep people around for the rest of Vailor.

[Neri 3590]

Honestly when it comes down to it, freelandia simply decentralizes a small amount of power; nations no longer have a stranglehold on properties and actually need to make some concerted effort to attract new players rather than "everyone who is a human ends up in Oren".

 

If people wanted freebuild before, they'd either concede on that or weasel their way into a chunk of Oren land (go look at Oren land if you don't believe me, forts and villages everywhere, all abandoned). Now they can go and RP where everyone else with this dream is RP'ing and hopefully cause some dynamic stuff to happen or relationships to form. It's still the same zero-sum of actions happening just somewhere else. Also, Nations are still the most convenient places for both RP and items... if Nations offer nothing else than that, maybe they are the issue?