On this OOC

[Publius 4098]

I’m going to keep this brief so that the friendos can look this over front to back because this is pretty important to me. I hope I don’t come off as too preachy but I wanted to comment on a few points that led past wars (such as the Duke’s War) to be destructive despite being “settled.”

 

Whether or not we like to admit it, loyalties in roleplay transfer into OOC. This truth applies to things such as moderating and people’s opinions. This can’t be prevented; however, actively pressuring people, gaslighting, threatening and taking each RP action as a personal slight can. These instigate some of the worst things to come out of wars such as this one.

 

Chiefmost among these issues though is the rampant wariness of players. They become paranoid of one another. They begin to actively justify persecuting particular people over it by using any roleplay measure in their grasp. This causes genuine animosity and moves the war away from the server to skype and teamspeak. It has led to some of our lowest points of activity in LoTC history.
 

I hope there is an opportunity available for the defeated community to establish themselves regardless of who wins the war. There is a reason the forums have blown up so much: Players have the right to continue playing on this server without fear of being harassed off of it.

Both sides must de-escalate the intensity and pressure that has made past conflicts so detrimental and harmful to the server. I am calling for the staff to help secure the communities that have become disenfranchised from recent wars and events so that we don’t hit such deep lows again.

 

I especially hope that some of my fellow screamers can cool their jets and show grace if this warclaim goes the right way; it's easy to get carried away.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and I speak as someone who I fully admit, has been part of the problem.

 

Personally, my great contribution to the OOC hate cycle was the targetted destruction of the Snow elves earlier on this map. I won't claim that it was purely my fault, as hostility and baiting came from both sides, which culminated in the targetted destruction by the side which had the bigger army.

 

And that is what always happens. Let's be honest, if I offered peace to either side of this war, I'd be spat at and violently turned down OOCly since both sides are hell bent on destroying the other. I will admit, that Oren, as the largest and most powerful faction historically, has been the main instigator for this. But I don't blame them personally, as I believe any other faction in its place would have done the same.

 

In the end, you cannot ever really defeat a playerbase, and the only way to end perpetual conflict between the same groups of people, over and over, is to leave one side alone.

 

As I've told Vege, Pyro, Pub, and leaders from both sides of this war, I'm a full advocate that the victor of this war should let bygones be bygones. Should Oren reconquer its lost land, then the rebels ought to get land on Ceru or Asul to build a kingdom for themselves where they can form their own society w/o being shat on constantly. The Dwarves and Orcs shouldn't be the target of more territorial expansion, which, let's be honest, never solved anything. (Which I'd been trying to convey for months with those peace terms everyone made me make harsher and unacceptable for some reason)

 

Oren, if it loses, shouldn't be pressed to the point of Exodus. Major RP hubs like Johannesburg or St. Karlsburg shouldn't be torn down. As for the Elves, while I speak with bias, would prefer not to be subject to unacceptable terms. Everyone knows full well that demanding the heads of leaders and the subjugation of cultures or the destruction of cities is only a temporary solution at best, which provokes long-term OOC ire and doesn't solve anything.

 

Terms of defeat (for all parties in fact) should be managable things like monetary reparations or other forms of tribute. Make the point that you've won, but don't shatter the foundations of your enemies RP community, or we'll end up right back here in another 2-3 months at the latest.

 

I'm not speaking out my ass or for the sake of self-preservation. I'll be an outspoken advocate for the preservation of the enemy RP communities and do all in my power to ensure they get terms they can actually accept, should Oren win this war. You can hold me to my word.

[shortchangehero 4217]

i will destroy haense

[Naj 545]

Whats funny is that these concerns were not addressed when communities were torn down by Oren in OOC. Now there is a very real possibility that Oren loses and suddenly they're the ones concerned for their role-play when they time and time again refused to give any regard to any other community that wasn't under them.

[AGP 3169]

yea

 

@Joe / joenaj / Yemekar cool ur jets dude this is what pub talkin about :/

[colovian fur 8360]

no matter what happens with this war im still going to be a reptilian bounty hunter in the future

 

and

no

one

can

stop

me

 

 

good post ? ? ? ?

 

[Vege 4804]

Courland will be avenged Haense will burn 

[Rammer 388]

I do agree on some points fully, on one though. There should be consequences to a characters action's. Or considering for lake of a better example not talking **** but Veg. Being he does have a history of aggression against the Orennien playerbase. I don't think he should be hunted to the ends of the earth on each and every character by Oren. But there should also be an extent kind of like spooks returning to elven cities after being killed several times. That it almost becomes physically tiring to allow someone to keep returning on the same characters or otherwise causing trouble. I'm not sure if my rambling made any sense at all but yeah.

[ski_king3 0]

This is a really good thing to put out there, and I hope we see more leaders of communities posting support for this sort of initiative.

 

Good job Pub.

[Publius 4098]

9 minutes ago, Rammer said:

I do agree on some points fully, on one though. There should be consequences to a characters action's. Or considering for lake of a better example not talking **** but Veg. Being he does have a history of aggression against the Orennien playerbase. I don't think he should be hunted to the ends of the earth on each and every character by Oren. But there should also be an extent kind of like spooks returning to elven cities after being killed several times. That it almost becomes physically tiring to allow someone to keep returning on the same characters or otherwise causing trouble. I'm not sure if my rambling made any sense at all but yeah.

 

He lost his region to a 3 year old with no home grown support despite having the backing of at least 40 extremely active players and many more irregulars. He wasn't even allowed to keep one of his vassals keeps, despite having several who had owned the subregions and actively rp'd there. Since then he's never truly been given an opportunity to integrate, my own efforts to give him a chance in Azul ending up getting my regency of Lorraine revoked (that, and supporting Draeris for being heir ironically enough). The OOC persecution leads to stuff like that, and to having to fight if you have any ambition beyond being a wood elven rice farmer.

 

Naturally, he is no friend of the empire that forsakes him, and it's finally at a cost.

[Rael 935]

It really is a corny sounding thing to say but just roleplaying is a great way to avoid these forum meme wars and heightening of emotions. Being in it for the story and not the noise makes you not really worry about the fighting beyond a laugh at a good meme.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

24 minutes ago, Joe / joenaj / Yemekar said:

Whats funny is that these concerns were not addressed when communities were torn down by Oren in OOC. Now there is a very real possibility that Oren loses and suddenly they're the ones concerned for their role-play when they time and time again refused to give any regard to any other community that wasn't under them.

 

Blaming one side perpetuates the problem. Remember that the communities Oren tore down in recent memory were torn down because they themselves tried to tear down Oren with the southern Axis coalition. The Orcs, the Warhawkes, etc. Was Oren responding by shitting on those respective groups a remotely permanent or effective solution? No, not at all as we can see right now. But it was just them perpetuating the cycle. Therefore you cannot place all the blame on Oren any more than you can place the blame on any other community.

 

That said, going out their way to ensure the orcs couldn't settle or warring on the dwarves frankly was pushing things too far. But again, that isn't an oren exclusive thing to do, as we can see much of the rebel coalition plans on doing the exact same thing now, just like they tried to do back in Vailor.

 

Don't try to pin the blame or the harrassment on either side, since it comes from both, and the cycle of perpetual warring and OOC hatred between the same two large chunks of people will only end in this same war igniting again in 2-3 months.

[Ambduscias 1028]

A nice sentiment but I sincerely doubt that the sudden desire for everyone to get along will have much of an impact. Hope things don't get too out of hand, at the least.

[Publius 4098]

3 minutes ago, Ambduscias said:

A nice sentiment but I sincerely doubt that the sudden desire for everyone to get along will have much of an impact. Hope things don't get too out of hand, at the least.

 

It isn't about getting along, it's about not persecuting everyone and their uncle using OOC means over RP

[Eggles the Beagles 252]

Gotta say, I'm pleasantly surprised by some of the responses to this thread as well as this thread itself. I fully support what you say, ever since I've joined lotc it seems that the same people with different characters keep warring each other in the never ending cycle just to screw each other over for a past grievance. It also doesn't help when on both sides there have been bias on the staff's part leading to all parties at one point or another being disgruntled and feeling wronged/helpless to do something. This continuous ride needs to stop. If we were to do this then all parties would benefit and RP might actually flourish along with a possible boost in our numbers as a community. I've refrained from doing any **** posting because its irrational and to be frank I don't feel compelled to do so. Let RP be RP, don't get salty about it, don't take it personally, and don't loose your grace or manners. Just Roleplay, isn't that what the server is for?