[✗] [Amendment] Tawkin - More Klones

[PrimnyaQuorum 4007]

 

 

Spoiler

Given the massive overhaul this clause includes - should it be accepted, any Tawkin Alchemist who have not learned the process of Reincarnation or currently does not reside in a Klone should have [1] OOC Week to submit a sreq to deny their Tawkins FA, without consequence. Those who have learned Kloning and/or have Reincarnated are unable to revert their knowledge of Tawkins as a result of this Amendment passing. 

 

REINCARNATION

— All general rules of Character Death still apply.

— Juliet Potions and Klone Vats require ST Signature.

— Klones require a valid Creature Application in order to be played. Should a Tawkinist attempt to have their Klone’s appearance be the same as another Player, they must receive OOC consent from said Player.

— The Rolling Process should be included as an uncropped screenshot during the signing of the Pygmy/Klone Vat. This will be noted on the Tawkinist’s CA. Tawkin cannot be used to evade the consequences of debilitated pygmies.

— Upon willfully learning and/or displaying knowledge of the process of reincarnation, an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause where upon their next death, should they not have any means of non-monk revival or sustainable pygmies for reincarnation, they will PK.  Executions or Death resulting from or following PvP is not included, within reason - one may not vote for PvP/Mechanical Combat to escape the clause.

– “Willingly Learning” includes non-Tawkinists who willingly learn and/or utilize the knowledge to achieve a goal, such as willingly seeking out Pygmies to destroy, boasting or proclaiming of the knowledge of the process of Reincarnation, etc.

— If one is unwillingly exposed to the knowledge of Kloning, they may choose to not hear/ignore the knowledge.

– Attempting to force the knowledge of Kloning onto someone in an effort to force a PK-Clause onto them is grounds for a Blacklist from Tawkin Alchemy, and/or further ST Intervention.

– Explicit, clear OOC consent must be gathered before information regarding Reincarnation is considered to be passed on in a “willing” manner.

— A Tawkinist who has successfully shuffled into a Klone may note the fact that they have died and Reincarnated, but is otherwise subject to the Standard Death Rules regarding recognizing previous dead bodies and memories/recollection concerning how they died. 

— [3] OOC Months after one has begun their lessons into Tawkin Alchemy, regardless of their progression or completion, they will be subject to the harsh PK Clause attached to Reincarnation.

 

Purpose: 

While Kloning has always carried a high risk given the attached PK Clause, many circumstances exist where one simply avoids learning Kloning to avoid the PK Clause without an alternative non-monk means of revival - effectively granting themselves all the boons of Tawkin and none of the downsides. In addition, those non-Tawkinists who learn and utilize the knowledge of Reincarnation intentionally receive the knowledge of Kloning and should meet the threshold for the PK clause, as they “willingly display knowledge of the process of reincarnation”. The Monks should shun them for having the knowledge and potential of the means to cheat death, regardless if they use it or not, and this extends to those who refuse to delve into the pinnacle of Tawkin Alchemy.

 

Beholder, WightTrash, transiconbridget - Consultation

 

[WhatASithuation 210]

I always took that redline as 'the process' as the knowledge of how to CREATE a klone. One can learn that klones exist and have no idea how to make them or what is required and be safe from PK assuming they do not metagame the information of learning that they exist.

Because of the amendment that mutation can only be applied to those who have reincarnated into a klone tawkinists who dont learn that last step cannot personally get any of the benefits and can only use lesser mutations and can really only use tawkin for healing and creating homunculi. 

Perhaps instead that one redline should be clarified into just that the process of CREATING a klone. I do not think it makes sense for someone to just learn that klones exist and be forced on PK. I think  without klone users being able to be hunted that takes the danger of immortality away. Nor should the FA be forced as a PK as a whole for players that seek to use it in the lesser ways of those lesser mutations and replacing lost limbs.

I do agree with these redlines being added however:
 

– Attempting to force the knowledge of Kloning onto someone in an effort to force a PK-Clause onto them is grounds for a Blacklist from Tawkin Alchemy, and/or further ST Intervention.

– Explicit, clear OOC consent must be gathered before information regarding Reincarnation is considered to be passed on in a “willing” manner.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4007]

8 minutes ago, WhatASithuation said:

I always took that redline as 'the process' as the knowledge of how to CREATE a klone. One can learn that klones exist and have no idea how to make them or what is required and be safe from PK assuming they do not metagame the information of learning that they exist.

Because of the amendment that mutation can only be applied to those who have reincarnated into a klone tawkinists who dont learn that last step cannot personally get any of the benefits and can only use lesser mutations and can really only use tawkin for healing and creating homunculi. 

Perhaps instead that one redline should be clarified into just that the process of CREATING a klone. I do not think it makes sense for someone to just learn that klones exist and be forced on PK. I think  without klone users being able to be hunted that takes the danger of immortality away. Nor should the FA be forced as a PK as a whole for players that seek to use it in the lesser ways of those lesser mutations and replacing lost limbs.

I do agree with these redlines being added however:
 

– Attempting to force the knowledge of Kloning onto someone in an effort to force a PK-Clause onto them is grounds for a Blacklist from Tawkin Alchemy, and/or further ST Intervention.

– Explicit, clear OOC consent must be gathered before information regarding Reincarnation is considered to be passed on in a “willing” manner.

 

I've been told that's the interpretation of the Clause, and it's what I'm aimming to change. On a IRP Level, I cannot see why the monks would care who has the means vs who doesn't to create a Klone - if you know how to cheat death, you know how to cheat death and they wouldnt help you anymore. On a OOC Level, its two-pronged: One can learn that Klones exist and use that to hunt people in Klones where they will always win, considering you can monk revive for free, while a Tawkinist will eventually run out of herbs, pygmies', or time. Equally, one can simply Learn Tawkins and Avoid Reincarnation and continue to die over and over without consequence. 

 

The point about Flesh Alchemy is a interesting one, however - I do think if mutations were removed as a part of it and Flesh Alchemy was expanded on, perhaps more could be done to make Flesh Alchemy something that can be pursued without access to Tawkin; I like the idea myself of being able to split up and teach parts of Alchemy indivudally without knowing and being able to teach other parts, thus making whole Further Alchemies more rare, but that would require a total overhaul to Alchemy, something I'm not quite ready to begin. For now, this was my best resolution.

 

Equally, though, one cannot be 'forced' to learn about klones. You must willingly agree OOCly to that knowledge, Tawkinist or Not per this amendment.

[MeteorDragon 3441]

36 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

— [3] OOC Months after one has begun their lessons into Tawkin Alchemy, regardless of their progression or completion, they will be subject to the harsh PK Clause attached to Reincarnation.

Why should I be subject to a PK clause if I purposefully don't learn kloning and just use tawkins for other things? It makes no RP sense

[WhatASithuation 210]

 

11 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

I've been told that's the interpretation of the Clause, and it's what I'm aimming to change. On a IRP Level, I cannot see why the monks would care who has the means vs who doesn't to create a Klone - if you know how to cheat death, you know how to cheat death and they wouldnt help you anymore. On a OOC Level, its two-pronged: One can learn that Klones exist and use that to hunt people in Klones where they will always win, considering you can monk revive for free, while a Tawkinist will eventually run out of herbs, pygmies', or time. Equally, one can simply Learn Tawkins and Avoid Reincarnation and continue to die over and over without consequence. 

 

The point about Flesh Alchemy is a interesting one, however - I do think if mutations were removed as a part of it and Flesh Alchemy was expanded on, perhaps more could be done to make Flesh Alchemy something that can be pursued without access to Tawkin; I like the idea myself of being able to split up and teach parts of Alchemy indivudally without knowing and being able to teach other parts, thus making whole Further Alchemies more rare, but that would require a total overhaul to Alchemy, something I'm not quite ready to begin. For now, this was my best resolution 

With tawkinists though the perk is being able to disguise yourself. If you want to go the klone route you need to be cunning ICLY. I dont think it makes sense to force people who know about it to hunt it into PK. If this was a purely or .. more aligned to hardcore death server I'd agree. But I don't think its fair on a server where monks do exist and players should have the choice to kill off their character. But that will be up for the lore team to decide.

Your other two redlines that I stated are definitely needed I think. I always took klones as meant for people who want to play hardcore one death but have a couple more lives that they've earned. Or to get around the human curse - or blood magic. Both feats ICLY are pretty large, and I think needs to have a bit of risk to it. Because in the end , tawkinists don't need to take that last step. As long as their not forced into it which is why I think the redlines you put in are definitely needed. Its a choice. 

Metagaming disguises is an issue but I think that can be solved on a case to case basis with moderation if it does get out of hand. 

Regardless I do see what you're aiming for here and I respect the effort you've put in here, I want to put my two cents into the fray. 

[Islamadon 9159]

This lore has been denied. You will be sent a forum PM regarding the reasons for denial within the next 24 hours.

It's a non-issue; recently LT Management were discussing Klones for an upcoming update and we felt they were fine in their current state. This overcomplicates the process and would subject many to PKs despite not knowing Kloning themselves. If they don't want to learn how to be Immortal, that's O-K. No clause.