[Complete] Report (budaq, Kardika, FadedQuartz)

[OP bandamont 901]

Player(s) Being Reported

FadedQuartz

 

Rule(s) Broken

Powergaming, Fail RP, Failure to follow and read rules.

 

Player(s) Involved

budaq, Kardika, FadedQuartz

 

Explanation

I went on a trip to Numendil and bumped into a conversation, where Kardika's character was accusing FadedQuartz's character of being a witch, my character immediately stepped in to arrest the elf, who immediately started running, Kardika's character and mine chased the elf, during the chase I threw my sword as an attempt to knock the elf down, after which... the elf magically steps to the side to avoid the flying object, great hearing, foresight, eyes on the back of the head? I don't know, but we eventually caught up and killed the elf for having witch crafted items.
And as General Combat Rules state, the winner of CRP, gets to choose what the losing side has to do - to SS or to /d20, I asked for FadedQuartz to D20, after what FadedQuartz denied the offer multiple times and after a few attempts to get FadedQuartz to /d20, they decide to say that they choose to ss out, after which I tried to down their character mechanically till moderation arrives, but to that, FadedQuartz decided to pull the ultimate move of logging off, ending the interaction.

 

Relevant Material

Evidence

https://imgur.com/a/hn8hHoy

 

Numendil Vassal

07/23/25

 

Evidence of uncooperative conduct.

Evidence

No, the player first of all ignored the rules and then logged off.

 

Desired Result of Report

I need all the items that were present in the inventory of FadedQuartz, Punishment = Applying for the server again to prove that they know the rules well enough.

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Before posting on this thread, please review the Report Rules.

[Luxury 1085]

Thank you, I was about to post one myself. This makes things a bit easier!

 

I am no stranger to self-serving banditry, and I believe these players have self-reported. Despite the rocky start to the rp, the emotes should telegraph give and take and fairness ultimately. I was able to reemote where specific issue was drawn and remained oocly cooperative. There were only a few pieces of that scenario I took issue with;

 

 

1. Loopholing rules; Budaq was assertive while stating his rp position as a guard of another territory would somehow allow him to force guard default / pvp default. A simple read through the looc dialogue will outline clear attempts to strong arm the scenario into objective favor of the OP.

(at this point, I modreqqed. A mod did answer but by the time one had arrived, this portion was passed - so the ticket was closed.)

 

edit: For ease of access I have included the rule which Budaq attempted to loophole via the above.

Spoiler

 

2. Metaplay; Another player DMed me, apologizing and stating Kardika was calling for backup in VC after engaging my character. I did not originally suspect Budaq who arrived shortly after Kardika initially engaged, but on review it does make sense. I do not recall the username, but the chat logs may be viewed at will.

 

3. Pugsying, the most worn out player name in history. During the close of the rp, I was asked to d20. As far as I understand, the rules outline two options for the losing party; between d20 or SSing. I stated I would choose to roll with the latter - but I was willing to await a mod to clarify this rule. The above players decided that instead of discussing further, or awaiting a mod - they would simply click me to death. I closed my client and began drafting a report immediately, but they beat me to the punch I suppose.

 

As of the time of this report, the d20 rule does not clearly state which party chooses the method of leaving the area. Nonetheless, a couple of bandits self-interpreting an unclear rule via pugsy is revealing of their character. Frankly I did not mind losing anything from my inventory on d20, I am aware the soulbound items return with me on spawn. I am more concerned with the principle of how they decided to close the rp, and I wished to await a mod ruling. 

 

I don't know what sorts of penalties exist out there, but a simple verbal reprimand would suffice. I've seen far more problematic players turn around and create inspiring narratives.

 

That is all!

 

 

 

[Kardika 1057]

what the, I never called for backup in vc what the frig dude.

Edited July 24, 2025 by Kardika

[OP bandamont 901]

Glad you responded so fast FadedQuartz.
First of all, loopholing? You just proved me right with that rule I was 'trying' to loophole.
Numendil is apart of the Empire, making it's lands - Imperial WOW, and guess what, I'm apart of the Empire and I'm a soldier on that character, a guard.
Guess what that makes me, a Guard within my lands? Like what?

Second - You just keep proving you got no clue what the rules are, Metaplay to my knowledge has nothing to do with this, Metaplay is OOC plotting while  metagaming, what you're probably trying to accuse me of is gathering RP information through ooc sources to further use in RP - if that's what you truly believe, funny, because upon request I can provide my logs, both in game and on discord, which will show ZERO messages were exchanged between me and Kardika up until you started powergaming - we'll get to that later.

On top of that, you're saying that we metagamed... when the CRP itself begun between you and Kardika, with me literally running past you two heading in the direction of Veletz, but your character screamed for help and I turned around, that's something @Kardika and you @Luxurydefinitely know is true.

Another thing that's really funny is that you're trying to accuse me and Kardika of metagaming... while, if I recall correctly, we've been approached by around ~3 groups of people who seemingly wanted to help you, isn't that interesting. 

Third of all - Pugsying, as the rule states, I as winner of the CRP, can allow you to EITHER d20 OR SoulStone out of the RP right after your death, me being a winner in the fight where you obviously powergamed and showed lack of good roleplay, asked you to d20 multiple times, where I said let's ask a mod, but there were no mods on, so I literally linked you the rule, to which you kept denying my request to d20 and when you eventually you pulled out a soulstone to 'avoid' dying, I tried to down so you couldn't leave. 

And it's really hilarious how you're concerned for how we ended the roleplay... well, there's no Roleplay to close, because you logged off LOL.
Another thing... banditry, really? I ran around in armor, of an Imperial Vassal who's known for hunting down elves and heretics, and here on the roads I see you two at it, I initially ran past but your character and Kardika's asked for my help, when Kardika accused you of being a witch, simple as, no need to drag in something I used to do for fun a while ago just to try and win the report here.

[Luxury 1085]

Good morning / evening,

 

I was able to review the responses. The only portion I feel necessary to comment on is the soul-stoning - I'm uncertain if logs will capture it but; There was no use of the soulstone mechanic, I was fully intending to remain until a consensus was reached via agreement or moderation input. I don't believe I was even holding the netherstar item. The player-killing was unprompted beyond the above player's fixation to force their way during every step of the encounter.

 

1 hour ago, Astrophysical said:

 

I just have to ask, why would you think this would work?

Couple of folks are criticizing the sword throw. I'm unsure how common this is, but in this scenario it seems to be upheld that a self-roll of 15 out of 20 is an admissible way to enforce whatever emote was just used regardless of how absurd it was. 
 

Side note for mods, this was a very brief encounter. It will not take more than 5 to 10 minutes to read in full.

---

While I'm here, may I add: the laughably thin veil of nuance between run of the mill banditry and this brand of banditry is whether or not you drop a "deus vult or God Wills It", etc. Most of the folks who've been around long enough have caught onto this by now, it's not exactly innovative.

 

My previously listed points stand, and at the moment I have nothing further to add.

[Xarkly 17299]

I'll respond to this tonight. If there's anything further to be added, concerned parties should do so in the next few hours. 

[Xarkly 17299]

BY THE POWER INVESTED IN ME BY THE STATE OF MINECRAFTIA,

 

I've taken a look at the contents of this report and the RP in-game. I'll address each issue raised below and then conclude.

 

On Guard Default

The strong insistence by Kardika & Budaq that they could rely on Guard Default to call PvP is incorrect for two reasons. Only one of these reasons is actually relevant, that being that Guard Default doesn't apply in situations of less than eight people. See rule below (source): 

 

The issue of Guard Default doesn't actually come into the equation at all as a result. 

 

That said, I found the question of how Guard Default might work in a multi-nation empire/federation pretty interesting, so I discussed it with a few other Mods. To be clear, this is a moot point in the circumstances where there were less than eight people involved in the encounter, but it might be handy bit of Mod insight for the future.

 

Can Imperial Guards call 'Guard Default' in a Vassal Nation?

No (for the most part). 

 

I can see and appreciate the logic of the argument made here, but I ultimately don't agree. Numendil might be a vassal of Bugundy/the Empire of Man, but it's functionally and mechanically an independent nation that has it's own government, guard force, and legal system distinct (and predating) the Empire. The biggest thing that sold the distinction for me is the following hypothetical:

 

The crime of 'slander' (which I'm using purely for example's sake) is defined as a crime in the Empire's Lex Tiberi but it doesn't appear under Numenedain law. If this crime is committed in Numendil, is an Imperial guardsman entitled to call Guard Default?

 

The prevailing consensus on the Mod Team is no, and I think it's pretty easy to see why. It would be different if Numendil lacked any of those factors I described above (independent government, military, judiciary); for instance, if this same situation played out in a direct vassal in the Empire that wasn't mechanically independent but claimed different local laws, you might succeed in calling Guard Default as an Imperial guard in that case. 

 

But, to wrap up this point, Numendil appears to be a distinct functional nation mechanically and, especially in the circumstances where those laws aren't the same. 

 

EDIT: As a disclaimer after someone raised a question in DMs, Darkspawn encounters would probably be treated very leniently because they're universally outlawed. In cases of a Darkspawn being exposed as a Darkspawn, it would really become Darkspawn v. 'non-Darkspawn' as opposed to the guard v. criminal. In cases like that, any 'non-Darkspawn' would probably be allowed to call Guard Default. 

 

Did FadedQuartz powergame by dodging the sword?

No. 

 

If anything, the act of throwing a sword is powergaming. Range weapons on LotC are specifically balanced to take at least 2-emotes to use -- as far as I can tell from the logs, you attempted to use a melee weapon (which have the benefit of 1-emote attacks, but limited by reach) to perform a ranged attack in 1-emote. Balance-wise, this isn't allowed and had I been presiding over the RP as a Mod I wouldn't have permitted that emote at all. 

 

I can accept the act of just throwing a sword as a lump of metal to disrupt someone, but the distance between Budaq and FadedQuartz also wasn't negligible, it was about 13 blocks (in excess of sprint distance). 

 

 

Was FadedQuartz obligated to /d20?

I think most of the server (myself included) are of the understanding that if you're killed in RP, you can be asked to /d20.

 

After a bit of discussion with Mods, the rule on this isn't drafted great and leaves a bit of confusion as to whether the 'killer' or the 'killed' gets to decide whether they get to soulstone or /d20. 

 

As a long-time player, it's my belief that the 'killer' always gets to decide this. I don't really think it's all that important, though -- the only reason this would actually have any consequence was if the 'killed' was withholding the contents of their inventory, which they should be powerless to stop you looting IRP anyway if they're dead or incapacitated, so I'm not attaching too much weight to it.

 

I think Mods are going to try tweak this rule to be a bit more specific, but otherwise I think the killer choosing to /d20 here is OK. 

 

What's not OK is the issue of pugsying. Like I said, the relevant factor here is whether FadedQuartz was withholding their inventory from you - I'm not too clear if they were attempted to be looted (I note that their mina had already been taken earlier in the fight), but really the only reason /d20 or soulstoning is relevant is if FadedQuartz was denying you access from looting their inventory. 

 

I won't dwell too much on it because I don't know if the inventory was a material point of the roleplay, but everyone here is obviously aware it's not OK to pugsy someone because they're not /d20'ing for your personal satisfaction. Even if it was the case that FadedQuartz was soulstoning to avoid giving you their inventory, the correct thing to do here would be to /modreq. The items can always be taken by the Mod later and given to you. 

 

Summary

To distil all the above:

• Guard Default doesn't apply in situations of less than eight people. The rules outright says that if a small group can't agree PvP or CRP, it defaults to CRP. 
• Even if Guard Default did apply, I don't accept that a guard of the Empire of Man is entitled to call Guard Default in Numendil. 
• FadedQuartz did not powergame dodging the sword because the act of throwing a sword in one emote the first place is, in my opinion, powergaming.
• In general I believe the 'killer' gets to choose whether the 'killed' can soulstone or /d20, but this is a badly-worded rule and Mods will hopefully clarify it after this report. That said, leaving RP (after being killed) by d20 or soulstoning is only relevant if the 'killed' is withholding items in their inventory. Pugsying, in any case, is a majorly over-the-top reaction and a Modreq should have been made if FadedQuartz was withholding items. If they had already been looted, the only reason to make them /d20 is to humiliate and I don't really care to entertain that.

Decisions

There was a lot of fairly aggressive insistence in the logs about "reading the rules" and "that's not how the rules work" when the reliance on Guard Default was, in fact, incorrect. I understand that CRP is extremely tedious, time-consuming, and undesirable for a lot of people (myself included), but unfortunately that's the system currently in effect and it's up to Admins, not Mods, to be convinced to change that. That said, the attackers seemed to have deliberately put themselves in a situation where they would have to CRP and I'm not sure why that's case. Maybe it was the misunderstanding of how Guard Default works. 

 

Either way, given the misconceptions that went on, FadedQuartz isn't facing any punishment for this. Budaq and Kardika need to be mindful of whether the rules they insist on are in fact correct, and make a Modreq before resorting to lengths such as pugsying.

 

@Luxury @Kardika @op bandamont

 

If I've missed or misunderstood any important detail (which is possible), please let me know and I'll reconsider in light of it. If anyone wants to appeal this to a Mod Manager, their Discords are aeusx or spoopyduck.