Lets Talk About PVP

[monkeypoacher 8053]

make love not warclaims. bring back those little capture the flag warzones and dwarven trench warfare

 

also nobody who is advocating for 1.9 combat remembers the agonizing torture of low tps 1.9 warclaims. half your swings disappearing into the aether. dying instantly once the server finally updates. pay to win (by running a big fiber optic cable from your router to the lord of the craft server box). at least with 1.8 i know i can just keep clicking

 

3 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

I think in a ideal server we have both reasonable builds that are not strictly anti-mechanics and sensible rules and limitations on when you can /break so that everything is rp friendly and not a arms race of cheese. its been 2 years though at this point its an impossibility

 

sensible compromise plugin proposal: limit to how much stuff you can steal (maybe 25% of items if you are taking entire stacks or 50% if you leave behind some items in each stack) but as a tradeoff you are able to lockpick chests and steal with a lower cap (10% of item stacks or 25% of total items). 

 

don't even bring up "heists" it defeats the entire point of covert ops to have to fill out a form and beg for permission on the forums to do covert ops. you should be able to steal stuff, but only a limited amount of stuff - fewer total items if you're stealing RP items, leave behind some items if you're stealing a bunch of resources

 

as a thief what has always bothered me is that if I jump over tripwires and guess the secret combination to someone's intricately crafted vault I am mechanically forbidden from ever opening any of the locked chests but if some poor peasant forgets to type /lwc and nail everything he owns to the floor i am allowed to jump in the hole in his thatched roof, dump everything into a big bag, and then ss out

 

also if you roll a 1 on either lockpicking a chest or the dreaded /smash command you should drop one item at random into a little container generated behind the door you can't open. maybe it's just a random block maybe it's a breadcrumb of evidence that the owner of the door uses to track down and kill you. there should be some amount of risk involved

[Gaja 1311]

i dont feel like writing a big paragraph

i think wasting another combat plugin with potential is dumb, current system is fun and just needs tweaking. idrc if we go back to 1.9 or 1.8, it'll be laggy as **** either way. bring back warzones those are fun and give rpers what they want (pvpers go to a diff server for pvp not interrupting ur roleplay)

[Smmer 2441]

GIVE IT BACK

 

1 GRAPPLING HOOK CAN SAVE 1 BUDAQ FROM DRIPSTONE DEATH PLEASE

[Chimeraof1999 1187]

You hate pvp because of lag and odd balances. I hate pvp because I'm bad at it and blame everyone else for not being good at role-play. Checkmate, grifter.

[Frostdrop1 1843]

  

18 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

if u want people to stop having to counter ridiculous mechanics with ridiculous builds u should be promoting giving petty theft a region-based cooldown. whinging at ppl for finding ways to counter petty theft mechanics instead of channeling all of this anger towards the people who spam /smash on 40+ doors and windows at 3am is so so silly

I agree that having a cooldown would be great. I'm not particularly angry I just think it's worth noting on the biggest city and very central roleplay spot in the server and when it's noticeable it's a problem. The Empire is not the only place that does this - vassal builds also frequently incorporate /break avoidant means. And I don't mean walls. I don't mean walls even built with very tiny windows to give the impression that arrows can be shot from them. I mean, quite specifically, chains, those transparent copper blocks, and utilising the debug stick to change the properies of walls/fences which modifies their hitbox. My fundamental point, to clarify, is more akin to 'It is bad to loophole' not '/break is fair and balanced'. In other words, two wrongs don't make a right and its part of fixing the attitude problem as a whole which is my foundational point as it relates to buildings and other aspects of 'MRP' of which PVP is a part. I think the rules would be best with this:

• Add a cooldown to thievery;
• Update the build regulations to handle mass instances of alternative windows OR make the command work on all things window-blocking.

For the sake of this particular dicussion, I think it's also worth looking to people who are actually on the other side and what they think might balance it out though it is a slightly different debate, so I think this reponse on here is nice for that purpose, even I don't agree on every point. This is not my zone, but I do believe there are people on both sides and they both deserve the chance for this part of the server to be fair.

13 hours ago, monkeypoacher said:

sensible compromise plugin proposal: limit to how much stuff you can steal (maybe 25% of items if you are taking entire stacks or 50% if you leave behind some items in each stack) but as a tradeoff you are able to lockpick chests and steal with a lower cap (10% of item stacks or 25% of total items). 

 

don't even bring up "heists" it defeats the entire point of covert ops to have to fill out a form and beg for permission on the forums to do covert ops. you should be able to steal stuff, but only a limited amount of stuff - fewer total items if you're stealing RP items, leave behind some items if you're stealing a bunch of resources

 

as a thief what has always bothered me is that if I jump over tripwires and guess the secret combination to someone's intricately crafted vault I am mechanically forbidden from ever opening any of the locked chests but if some poor peasant forgets to type /lwc and nail everything he owns to the floor i am allowed to jump in the hole in his thatched roof, dump everything into a big bag, and then ss out

 

also if you roll a 1 on either lockpicking a chest or the dreaded /smash command you should drop one item at random into a little container generated behind the door you can't open. maybe it's just a random block maybe it's a breadcrumb of evidence that the owner of the door uses to track down and kill you. there should be some amount of risk involved

17 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

I'm going to have to agree to disagree here -- the 'top dogs' of the Empire are made up of players who do not have the same shtick with the ST. Barring myself (an ST), most of them are players who: do not get opportunities with CAs, the opportunities to have MAs, and do not partake (because it is not readily presented to them) in events. 

I would like to find a middle ground but I'm wondering if we're really looking at the same list of people here who we consider the top-dogs. So, unfortunately, I still do disagree but I think I can find an avenue to give some lee-way.

 

There are plenty of actual ST and people pretty well-known and a small minority who have frankly actively thrown their weight around with ST weapons even recently had some impact on drawing attention to such materials (i.e. the boomsteel nerf regarding child characters). The ruling class, as it were, who are at least public and appear to driving things are fairly big names who have been known for plenty of stuff before. There may be some lesser-known names who are getting lots of sway behind the scenes - and if they are, that's great. I wouldn't say it's particularly apparent from the outside, though or even when roleplaying within The Empire.

------ chunking this together because multiple quotes -----

17 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

I just find it very moronic when your main complaint about PvP is that the top dogs of the Empire monopolise it to their advantage only.

That would be, if that were the main complaint. Admittedly, reading back I can't find my direct wording to this but I think it's related to using the Empire as an example but to re-iterate my main complaint is the following which is a more expansive issue that just PVP on its own:

On 9/23/2025 at 8:27 PM, Frostdrop1 said:

PVP is, at current, a big back-patting contest of the same players who loop around and give each other stuff for being great at PVP, then memeing about it.

Which I clarify in the original post it is not an Empire issue, that I only used the Empire as a example to point at because its very current and is a great hotspot for these issues. None of the things I've discussed of Empire-only issues they are just there a lot:

On 9/23/2025 at 8:27 PM, Frostdrop1 said:

I use the Empire because its super current, but this is not an Empire issue. It's a PVP culture issue which has extended into the Empire due to who's involved.

------- End of chunk & new chunk -------

 

17 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

its inherently fine when the RPers are the ones in the 'very out groupings'

No, it's a little more nuanced and here's where I touch on it:

 

20 hours ago, Frostdrop1 said:

""In-group" of RP CA/MA-stackers, or folks toting 500 ST-items - this isn't a phenomenon unique to PvP or nation-building, but instead a common facet of MCRP. "

 

I fundamentally agree.

So I agree. It's both sides. And then I go on to clarify this about the difference between how this behaviour materialies in PVP v CRP:

20 hours ago, Frostdrop1 said:

I, personally, would pin this on some particularly disagreeable 'winner' attitudes. The same thing that makes PVP in general so icky, just more brazenly and more directly person-to-person, not character-to-character. Personally, I do at least find it somewhat more tolerable when it is something I can project to the character I have rather than having to engage with something rather demeaning as myself.

To say this another way for clarity, I think the 'out-grouping' of PVP is so bad because it attacks the person behind the screen. CRP powergaming and being underhanded etc, can more easily be set onto my character and not see it as a direct offense to my person and oftentimes you can even have a fairly reasonable discussion about it. However, there is certainly the argument to be made that such things in CRP could be seen as a lack of respect for the other person although I think they certainly both stem from the same kind of 'winner' attitude, even if it comes out differently which I think is encouraged and prompted by the medium. I could elaborate on PVP behaviours a lot but I think I've done this already in the first comment which was pre-faced with 'The Empire' but in actulity they're just PVP complaints but on a bigger scale. It's just easier to point to stuff familiar but 

 

On 9/23/2025 at 8:27 PM, Frostdrop1 said:

that every shot-caller acts like a teenager when in VC, drunk of having a little control

But this is just every shot-caller I've ever heard, which in incredibly obnoxious and I'd love it if someone were different,

On 9/23/2025 at 8:27 PM, Frostdrop1 said:

how the same players loop around their boomsteel weaponry and we're seeing the same sorts of people temp banned over the behaviour

This deals with the attitude problem even among ST hording which already begins to touch on the cross-over that Tide highlighted much better,

On 9/23/2025 at 8:27 PM, Frostdrop1 said:

how their rallies within the city were pitifully poor emote quality

This is pretty much every PVP rally, etc.
Nor is that an exhaustive list but what I thought of at the time of writing. I could go on but I don't really think anyone needs me to illustrate more,

--- End of chunk 2----
 

17 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

the Empire build has more break-in holes than most (we've had to try and fix some of them). The Empire always leaves its gates open, the building wasn't ever made with the intention of making it impossible to break into a house.

Walls aren't part of the issue nor is entering the Empire as a whole. Those aren't the point at all and weren't being spoken about by any party and I don't care for the impact aesthetically. As I kind of cover earlier but once more specifically this list: chains, those transparent copper blocks, and utilising the debug stick to change the properies of walls/fences which modifies their hitbox - two of which do look nice. Essentially, things which function as windows but can't be accessed like windows. While I'm not a fan myself, I just think it's blatantly unfair and ties in with general poor attitudes in regard to the broader umbrella of MRP. While I can see that there is definitely a fairly strong chance it wasn't intentional and because the build-style started that way so it just kept going, which is pretty logical, I think the potential rule changes still need to be looked at both for cooldowns and for building regulations or expanding the use of /break which would remove the loopholes, intentional or not. The Empire build, again, is not the only place utilising stuff like this when I wrote it I mentioned chains not because The Empire really uses that but I recall seeing it on Garenbrig. Vassal builds use these even more, sometimes for the whole build. However, The Empire is more important and is the example as a point that everyone could reference. However, no, it is also not a direct tie into PVP but leaking out into where else might be affected by 'winner' attitudes, just coming out in a different way.

[nunlover 579]

i dont think people who would be railed by boomsteel in pvp should have a say in this 

[Boom_steel 538]

7 hours ago, finessed said:

i dont think people who would be railed by boomsteel in pvp should have a say in this 

So…everyone? Heh

[PrinceJose270 1211]

On 9/24/2025 at 11:28 PM, monkeypoacher said:

make love not warclaims. bring back those little capture the flag warzones and dwarven trench warfare

 

also nobody who is advocating for 1.9 combat remembers the agonizing torture of low tps 1.9 warclaims. half your swings disappearing into the aether. dying instantly once the server finally updates. pay to win (by running a big fiber optic cable from your router to the lord of the craft server box). at least with 1.8 i know i can just keep clicking

 

 

sensible compromise plugin proposal: limit to how much stuff you can steal (maybe 25% of items if you are taking entire stacks or 50% if you leave behind some items in each stack) but as a tradeoff you are able to lockpick chests and steal with a lower cap (10% of item stacks or 25% of total items). 

 

don't even bring up "heists" it defeats the entire point of covert ops to have to fill out a form and beg for permission on the forums to do covert ops. you should be able to steal stuff, but only a limited amount of stuff - fewer total items if you're stealing RP items, leave behind some items if you're stealing a bunch of resources

 

as a thief what has always bothered me is that if I jump over tripwires and guess the secret combination to someone's intricately crafted vault I am mechanically forbidden from ever opening any of the locked chests but if some poor peasant forgets to type /lwc and nail everything he owns to the floor i am allowed to jump in the hole in his thatched roof, dump everything into a big bag, and then ss out

 

also if you roll a 1 on either lockpicking a chest or the dreaded /smash command you should drop one item at random into a little container generated behind the door you can't open. maybe it's just a random block maybe it's a breadcrumb of evidence that the owner of the door uses to track down and kill you. there should be some amount of risk involved

3 AM hiest and thief rp goes really 1 sided tbf. 

Any attempt at investigations usually end up being generally stale or so vague the most you can get out of it is likely ones race based on like. shoe size/ footprints.

Just a thought though, there should be means to RPly trap where you keep your stuff. Position some spike trap on a failed save to stab at ones hand or maybe with animii some clay wall to hit someone to get some imprint. That or just basic determent (traps, crafted defense constructs ect as long as it isnt instant.


back to war claims 1.8 combat is 1000x better then 1.9. though the issue i think personally is that pretty much every warclaim outside of conquest has been generally just. Useless. 95% of Aevos's war claims had just been conquests in general Yet other wargoals tend to just be put on the corner of a shelf. Why raid for money when you can capture X nation for that sweet sweet t a x. Or why war X nation on X topic when you can conquest and force it the way  you want. I get Conquest is the most common thing but at that point theres p much point in having the other wargoals less you want to make y group mad. I e 

say orc do a raid wargoal for gold, humans respond with a conquest one. Then just lets say orcs win somehow ((despite 200 murder blob)). The response then is to just conquest again, and it would just be back n forth.

Conquest should be either less loose as it is so other wargoals would have some type of shine. Or wargoals are just universally connected to conquest in some way. :shrug: 

Im still waiting for a crp war so Magic, constructs and stuctures have some purpose in wars. Kinda like back in atlas where the orcs had some mass spell that gave orc players in that battle Str 2.

[CombatRolePlay 1863]

I enjoy 1.9 more but 1.8 is better for the server :P 

[argonian 14254]

average non-pvper is literally worthless in 1.9. ur just gonna miss 99% of ur hits/timings, esp in the lag.

 

fights last way too long. it's rly annoying when ppl can stop to eat while being hit. reduce the # of hearts please