Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[Jistuma 1996]

You cant not comment on it and be in this discussion... the title is Creation or Evolution... you cant not comment on the creation part if you wish to refute it...

I will focus only on what has been said about evolution. I know what creationism is, and all I can say about it is simple. It has no proof besides a book which was written by over 40 people, through a period of 1600 years, when most of the polulation of earth could not read or write, which has been translated a LOT, where events of before are changed midway throught the pages, which are seems to half the time be written in code, which has been changed by men throughout the times, and so forth.

 

Everything else said by creationists has no proof for their side, and as such I will not comment on it.

 

 

 

@Haz

 

Seems we are just kind of misscomunicating here :P, I won't respond to yours, it seems I just have a different idea on what a belief is.

[hammer01 29]

Everything else said by creationists has no proof for their side, and as such I will not comment on it.

If it has no proof then show us it has no proof. When you don't comment on it it looks like you don't have any way to refute it. Please comment on it if you think it is wrong.

[Lago 2572]

First, I'm going to post an attack on arguably the second worst post I have ever seen:

 

 

When discussing the origins of the universe, the necessary conclusion is that it came out of nothing.

Wrong. Rewind the universe by current theories and you get to an infinitely dense point. That is not nothing.

 

 

The most obvious example is the adaptation of dark skin by Africans due to the climate of their home continent

Wrong, or rather, backwards. Pale skin adapted in order to absorb sufficient vitamin D from sunlight in poorly sunlit areas of the world. Humans originiated from the warm climates and thus the first humans were dark-skinned.. White people have the recessive traits.

 

 

Let us examine the moral implications of believing in evolution as a culture.

Irrelevant.

 

 

Hitler is one of our favorite examples of much evil, but he was driven
by a sincere belief in Darwin. He truly believed that inferior humans
needed to be exterminated (dalek) in order to purify our genes, optimize
our operation, and maximize our potential.

The idea of human eugenics was far more widespread than Nazi Germany. It pervaded the world until the horror of the Holocaust mostly eradicated all public tolerance of it.
 

Communism denies God

You'll have to elaborate there. Communism fell while capitalism endured because communism relies on human morality (something communist leaders always fail to do) while capitalism relies on humans acting in their own interests, which is, sadly, far more reliable.
 

Communism denies God, and in doing so must embrace another explanation
for our origins. Darwinian Evolution provided the perfect fit. Communist
regimes throughout the twentieth century killed at least 100,000,000
people, and perhaps upwards of 200,000,000 people.

The death toll in religious wars is huge. Religion thus, by the same logic, denies God.

 

Aside from social systems, Darwinian Evolution destroys the moral
fiber of people and eradicates belief systems. It encourages propagation
of one's own genes, and with over propagation of genes comes
overpopulation, and the need to spend valuable resources on
contraceptives, not to mention the horrible epidemics of different HIV
strains and other sexually transmitted diseases, especially in countries
where the population is either too poor, or too group-oriented to be
able to do much to stop it.

Guns kill people. Thus, guns do not exist.

 

 

The Bible is a compilation of 66 books written by forty men over at
least 1600 years. They wrote a book that has no historical inaccuracies,
no scientific errors (except where it is clearly being artfully
descriptive)

You're a panda made of hydrogen. I am being artfully descriptive and thus my statement contains no scientific innaccuracies.

 

 

This by no means is all I have to say, and these aren't all of my
arguments either. This, however, soundly defeats evolution by showing it
is scientifically impossible, and also morally destructive. This has
shown (not proven, but I could do that too) the existence of a Creative
Force, which English speakers call God. It has also shown the prowess of
the Bible throughout history, and in comparison to modern science and
known events. I feel this was rather comprehensive, but if more needs to
be said, by all means, I am willing to say it.

It's not an argument, it's a bunch of barely connected, poorly thought out American hysterics chained together with some clever English. You neither back up your points nor even connect them. If I condense your post, this is what we get:

 

• States energy cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore there is not an infinite amount of energy. (Does not make sense.)
• States that universe must have originated from nothing. (Assumed as fact by poster)
• States that of all explanations, God is best. (Assumed as fact by poster)
• States that God must be sentient in order to influence universe. (Assumed as fact by poster)
• States that Natural selection supported by empirical evidence. (No issue here.)
• Evidence cited is "evolution of dark skin". (This is backwards. The assumption that the white man came first is born of racism, not research)
• Brings up Industrial Revolution black moths as example of Natural Selection. Thus evolution does not occur. (Does not make sense)
• States that Evolution by Natural Selection is proven to be false. No evidence cited.
• States the Holocaust was the result of fanatical following of "Darwinism". No connection to point made. While we're here, I'll cite the real world Teutonic Order, a group that murdered so many people they made the Nazis look like a small-time serial killer in comparison. This was done in the name of religion.
• States communists are atheists (incorrect!).
• Goes on to list a large number of examples of slaughters caused by communists. These are nothing compared to the bath of blood caused by religion across the centuries, and they didn't even have 20th century weaponry.
• States that "Darwinism" drives people to overeproduce and is cause of HIV. This then assumes that if everyone were religious their reproductive drive would vanish. This leads one to wonder why, if humanity is far older than "Darwinism", why it is not extinct.
• Makes random statement about pornography.
• Claims Bible to be superior to other religious texts.

Does that look like a solid argument to anyone? No.

 

And secondly, I'm going to ask, why is this thread still open? It's a bad blood farm that gets nowhere, and has got nowhere for 77 pages. It's like a thread on the existence of God, like Russell's Teapot, it's inherently impossible to prove either way.

[The Best Basileus 97]

Slavery isn't really wrong? So you think that it was fine for the Spanish Empire to enslave the native populations of the Americas? You think it was fine for the Arabs to capture blacks and sell them to Europeans and Asians? You think the slave trade perpetuated by European merchants in the Age of Exploration was fine? Don't tell me it wasn't wrong, but was socially wrong. This is my point exactly. Evolution denies any morality. Evolution demeans humanity to the point of a mere animal, an animal that just HAS to murder, rape, steal, enslave, and abuse. Evolutionary reasoning destroys order. The belief in Evolution destroys civilization itself.

 

First off on where you start to disagree, the more energy put into a system, the more disorder it has. One of the ways to form super-orderly crystal structures besides sentient beings directing energy to do specific things, is to reduce the energy of the object to the point of near absolute zero. The object will still have more entropy than it "should" based on the equations, but it will be far more orderly than at higher temperatures. The fact that the sun supplies energy actually should mean that the system is MORE disorderly :) Everything based on what I said in your specific rebuttal is true, because my point is true (that means the aliens, and the fact that evolution is impossible. Disorder does not beget order).

 

Next, Hitler. Godwin's law... funny. I mean what I said though. Hitler may have been lying and using Darwinism to explain what he did, but he only managed to do it successfully because most Germans accepted Darwinism. If they had not, Hitler would not have been able to come into power or maintain it. Hitler may have been insane, but even insane people reason. His reasoning was based on Evolution.

 

Next, Communism. I don't care if you think Communism is a fine system, I happen to disagree, but that is beside the point. Communist people have murdered hundreds of millions in the name of evolution and the state. Their ethnic cleansing, again, has it's reasoning based in Darwinian evolution. I'm not here to argue over whether Communism is wrong, but I am, however, here to show what they did because of their beliefs in Evolution.

 

Next! Natural selection encourages men to propagate their genes as much as possible. The superior humans who survive each other and the rest of the world will propagate superior humans. The inferior humans will fail to propagate their genes sufficiently, and their line will die out. It's the principle upon which Darwin's entire theory is founded. That logic, when adopted by humans, has EXACTLY the effects that I mentioned. There is no getting around it.

 

Human society is affected by humans believing in Evolution. Any idea existing by itself without anybody BELIEVING in it can do no harm or good. Only when the idea gains followers does it cause problems, or solve them. Evolutionary ideas, when believed, influence people to cause problems. If there isn't a moral compass to follow, why not fulfill your needs in any way possible? It's logically the next step, and it has to be made in an honest debate.

 

Now, then, Jitsuma, your absolute refusal to even speak of the nature of the God that logically has to exist speaks volumes. I think that it shows your utter faith in your position, despite the massive amount of evidence to the contrary. Evolution isn't scientific. Evolution isn't moral. Creationism is both. The natural question, then, is who is the Creator? That is all I was exploring in that final section. I encourage you to read it, because you will find some very intriguing facts therein.

 

I have formulated and defended my argument. Will you now put forth yours?

 

EDIT: Sorry Lago, didn't see yours. Have to rebut that separately.

[Lago 2572]

Next, Communism. I don't care if you think Communism is a fine system, I
happen to disagree, but that is beside the point. Communist people have
murdered hundreds of millions in the name of evolution and the state.

So have capitalists, and both pale in the face of murder in the name of religion.

 

Human society is affected by humans believing in Evolution. Any idea
existing by itself without anybody BELIEVING in it can do no harm
or good. Only when the idea gains followers does it cause problems, or
solve them. Evolutionary ideas, when believed, influence people to cause
problems. If there isn't a moral compass to follow, why not fulfill
your needs in any way possible? It's logically the next step, and it has
to be made in an honest debate.

 

Once again, religion is the single greatest human-generated cause of death in history.

 

I'm not here to argue over whether Communism is wrong, but I am,
however, here to show what they did because of their beliefs in
Evolution.

Now this is just hysterical. The murders of their own people by communist states are in order to preserve their own power and silence dissent. It's exactly the same thing the Medieval Church and the European absolute monarchies did.
 

Now, then, Jitsuma, your absolute refusal to even speak of the nature of
the God that logically has to exist speaks volumes. I think that it
shows your utter faith in your position, despite the massive amount of
evidence to the contrary. Evolution isn't scientific. Evolution isn't
moral. Creationism is both. The natural question, then, is who is the
Creator? That is all I was exploring in that final section. I encourage
you to read it, because you will find some very intriguing facts
therein.

How is creationism scientific?
 

because you will find some very intriguing factstherein

You'll find one, along with a load of disconnected statements and a nugget of racism.

[Haz 35]

-SNIP-

That was a little unnecessary. You do realize that most of what you have written here is wasted, a person who could spend the time to write such drivel would not be able to change their view, opinion or way of thinking to conform to something a little more logical.

You come to such a thread expecting results? It's 77 pages of getting nowhere because of the nature of the topic and largely because of the people on the server. Most of the people in this community are far too up their own arse and self-obsessed to realize that their opinion is not necessarily correct/true. In the entirety of the 77 pages of this thread I would highly doubt you'd find anyone who has changed their opinion/view because of what someone has said within the thread. People in the community simply blabber on about how their ideology is the best and do not focus on trying to support it with anything empirical.

It's rather sad when you think about it.

 

[Lago 2572]

I take no side in this debate, I am simply compelled to attack nonsense when I see it. There was a guy around page 30 stating that Satan had infiltrated the American education system to drive people away from Christianity.

[hammer01 29]

Snip

I think what you are trying to say is that Evolution makes for no morals. And I think you are right in that...

[Haz 35]

I think what you are trying to say is that Evolution makes for no morals. And I think you are right in that...

No theory is designed to create or construct morality within man. The Theory of Evolution helps us to understand the function of nature and everything within.

 

Morality is derived from what a man believes, and this is not just limited to his religion, but his entire outlook on life.

Click here for more.

[The Fact Core 511]

Fact: This Conversation will get more posts then the votings for president obama, until someone ends it a with a final word.

 

Fact: There is no live, there is only space.

 

Fact: The Evolution gives us a reason to think about our live and why we are on this world.

 

Fact: The word creation is the most used word by Lego.

 

Fact: I made this post because there should be something that is different.

[hammer01 29]

No theory is designed to create or construct morality within man. The Theory of Evolution helps us to understand the function of nature and everything within.

 

Morality is derived from what a man believes, and this is not just limited to his religion, but his entire outlook on life.

Click here for more.

Im just saying its a side effect... if we are just smart animals, then we should be able to get away with anything, because, hey! there is no punishment after death! Before evolution Christianity was the norm. People had morals. After evolution, people could get away with anything...

[hammer01 29]

Fact: This Conversation will get more posts then the votings for president obama, until someone ends it a with a final word.

 

Fact: There is no live, there is only space.

 

Fact: The Evolution gives us a reason to think about our live and why we are on this world.

 

Fact: The word creation is the most used word by Lego.

Answer 1: Your probably right.

 

Answer 2:What you just said makes no sense.

 

Answer 3: Explain please.

 

Answer 4: Irrelevant.

[Uniquename111 52]

This is very simple, the THEORY OF EVOLUTION is only a theory because of all the "scientists" out there that don't realize it's factuality and are more concerned with proving their belief. Only a moron (like Paul Brown on the Science Committee, U.S. , and all the other stupid, stubborn creationists out there) can't understand Evolution is a proven scientific fact, take a look at early homosapiens and the REST of the overwhelming amount of proof out there that shows Evolution is sound. Seriously, all this bickering is stopping ACTUAL scientific progress to occur, everyone argues about creationism and Evolution (when they truly know Evolution is very much proved), that no one is able to make ANY scientific progress. The same with Gay Marriage in the US, protesters against gay marriage are just stubborn and foolish being too idiotic to even understand ANYTHING, just like fundamentalist creationists. THERE, that's all that needs to be said. EVOLUTION IS PROVEN, stop whining about it, and go do something that's actually productive!

 

Paul Brown's Stupid, yet very pathetic speech: 

 

TheAmazingAtheist's video on stupid Gay Marriage protesters (as stupid as stupid Evolution protesters): 

[hammer01 29]

This is very simple, the THEORY OF EVOLUTION is only a theory because of all the "scientists" out there that don't realize it's factuality and are more concerned with proving their belief. Only a moron (like Paul Brown on the Science Committee, U.S. , and all the other stupid, stubborn creationists out there) can't understand Evolution is a proven scientific fact, take a look at early homosapiens and the REST of the overwhelming amount of proof out there that shows Evolution is sound. Seriously, all this bickering is stopping ACTUAL scientific progress to occur, everyone argues about creationism and Evolution (when they truly know Evolution is very much proved), that no one is able to make ANY scientific progress. The same with Gay Marriage in the US, protesters against gay marriage are just stubborn and foolish being too idiotic to even understand ANYTHING, just like fundamentalist creationists. THERE, that's all that needs to be said. EVOLUTION IS PROVEN, stop whining about it, and go do something that's actually productive!

 

Paul Brown's Stupid, yet very pathetic speech: 

 

TheAmazingAtheist's video on stupid Gay Marriage protesters (as stupid as stupid Evolution protesters): 

Way to insult creationists...

[Uniquename111 52]

Way to insult creationists...

 

No more like showing them that they shouldn't change science to fit with their religion, it's kind of how in many past monarchies, the christian church lead the country and shaped the country to its religion. Science is Science, Religion is Religion. If you are so stubborn about this, let me explain to you this: your religion can't BE Science, Science is Knowledge. Just because you don't agree with something that goes against your religion doesn't give you any reason to argue that said thing is untrue when it JUST IS TRUE!