Update:: The new Money Management System

[Jielin 1]

Could I ask if there is a way to protect you vault. The method I'm using now is making it a double chest and placing a block over the un-occupied spot. Sort of using region protection. If there is a method, could you guys please let me know. Greatly appreciated.

[Picklerage 7]

I don't believe it needs to be a double chest, although I may be wrong, but now, you have to use a sing right above it saying [vault]. There is no other way, at least at the moment.

[Casamir 42]

Well my train of thought was that 1) A vault is supposed to be, although hidden too, locked, and that is pretty much its whole purpose 2) If you live in a communal area, such as I do with the bunks of the Lances of Oren, it can be easily stole from by any random person 3) Allows for banks and the such, although I guess that could work with just getting a player with access to LWC to lock the door to the area.

Also, since you are a Bedrock VIP, do VIPs get unlimited LWC items, or do you have a specified amount?

I haven't hit a limit yet, but I don't try to make a million locks either, I do it within reason and try to condense my items into chests, or if I need a series of rooms locked, I put doors on them and lock the main door in the hall. I think at one point in aegis unavoidably I had around 50 + locks.

[Coconuta 141]

Sounds good... Apart from vaults.

How does throwing money half the way around the world make sense. And killing any theft/robberyRP at the same time.

[Picklerage 7]

Sounds good... Apart from vaults.

How does throwing money half the way around the world make sense. And killing any theft/robberyRP at the same time.

No offense, but did you even read the post? It says exactly this:

A Temporary Revision for VA thieves involving vaults::

-You may pick the locks on Vault chests as you would any other chest, with all standard lockpicking rules and limits in place.

-If successful, you may only take up to 1,000 minas from the chest, as coinage is heavy and unwieldy. This being said, if there are multiple thieves working together, EACH ONE can take up to 1,000 from a successfully picked chest. This is across all possible vault chests you successfully pick, if you successfully lockpick 3 Vault chests, you can still only take 1000 minas in total.

Unlocked "vaults"? Stealing up to 1,000 minas, also considering the value of the mina also got bumped up a bit the the update? Does this all "kill any theft/robberyRP"?

[no longer active 734]

Yes, you have to find the vault and everyone will hide their vaults underground.

[George of House Glover 372]

I will need 578.7 'vaults' to store all my money, with this system. I will need a giant castle to fit enough room for it all.

We need a way to store money in greater denominations than just 1 emerald or people will have a massive problem with the size space they need to store it.

[Acornlad 206]

Why do you guys change it so much? Now Salvus is going to expierience inflation...

[Casamir 42]

No offense, but did you even read the post? It says exactly this:

Unlocked "vaults"? Stealing up to 1,000 minas, also considering the value of the mina also got bumped up a bit the the update? Does this all "kill any theft/robberyRP"?

He means Highway Robbery, no one will be carrying their physical minas on them.

[youlovesocks 652]

The way chest shops really worked was people would leave an NPC at the stall, and have the things in the chests to sell. As people experienced different time zones, a lot of items were not up for sale as the people who owned the shop weren't online. I think that chest shops or some sort of shop without you being there needs to be implemented.

As for the emeralds being physical money - i think this is a bit overdone. I strongly disagree with this and also disagree with the whole "pay them RP'ly. Give them IOU's" Nobody is going to give people diamonds or any items for that matter because somebody says I owe you (add amount here) much money. You're telling us to play to RP, and getting money is all about RP. Guards don't become guards for their efforts to go not paid. They become guards because they have little money and there is almost always a spot open for guardsmanship. Say someone sits at a gate for hours on end. They would want to get paid -- this is absolutely not 'playing to win' -- this is wanting to get paid for their RP, and their efforts. To be rewarded. The entire economy has shut down upon everyone's minas vanishing. Taxes and shops were what made empires and cities strive. Just what made people in general strive.

Everything has a price in life, and it should be treated as such. People sell their wares to MAKE MONEY, not to RECEIVE PROMISES. Most promises cannot be re-payed. As Tythus stated on refunding minas, we can't refund people on their word, just as we cannot sell wares based on the person's word.

---To lock'eed-- Nobody has acknowledged his question, and he brings up a VERY important one. If there is no way of mining the emeralds, and getting them easier than hunting down zombies to get a mere 2 minas, the economy will collapse on itself.

With these note I strongly disagree with this update and thing it should be reverted, to a way of having virtual minas.

[ek_knight 21]

although I like the new system, the fact is the economy will collapse if their is no money in it. However, giving money to individual players might also cause problems. However nations should be given some minas. Paying people RPly is confusing and could lead to tons of powergaming (Ie "Oh yes, I have a million minas and you cannot prove that I don't). Nations would use this money to pay workers, and it will enter the economy.

[Lock 'eed Ironheart 120]

To answer various things since the last post in no particular order::

"Add some form of LWC to the vault chests."

LWC already works on vault chests, a chest being LWC'd or not has no bearing on the Vault plugin, you can LWC them yourself, this was stated in the OP.

"Make a limit ASAP for how many vault chests a player can place."

We will be, but not just yet. Once the plugin recognizes Emerald Blocks as 9 minas, then we'll set the # of vaults limitation, until then, minas takes up a lot of space, so we're allowing unlimited vaults to compensate for the moment.

"The fact that an admin does not appear to have even been informed of this thing"

several admins WERE informed of this thing, and not all staff are on 24 hours a day, every day, or even more than a couple times a week. The two plugin GM's were added to specifically find, tweak, and implement such plugins at their own discression, given to them by shiftnative. They are working for the betterment of the server, and this was tested on the test server to ensure stability before it was brought over to Live.

"Will emeralds be mineable? Otherwise you have a currency that has no origins."

Emeralds are not RPly EMERALDS, they are Minas coins. We chose emeralds because they have no other purpose on LotC, as we do not use the vanilla NPC Villager merchants. RPly they are minted Minas coins. So no, they won't be mineable in all likelihood, you don't mine minted coins.

"Maybe you could advertise the use of banks for vaults"

That would be up for enterprising players to do. If you feel it could be profitable, go open a Vault Bank RPly.

"It's not that people don't like the change, it's that the economy disappeared along with everyone's cash."

True, but the economy had ALREADY disappeared and the plugin that had the map Minas Notes was already dead and not up to date for 1.4, nor was the data stored in any logical manner so extracting people's minas note values proved impossible. Plus there would be no way to link a particular minas note value to a player in this method, as they aren't exactly bound to a player, they're just loose items. A decision needed to be made, and one was made for the good of the future of the server.

"I think the GM's should host some sort of event to get some Mina back."

I've been having similar thoughts, will be discussing this with the staff and event team when I have the chance.

"and realised this is the better move for the server. People need to realise this and stop hating on the admins and GM's. "

Thank you for seeing this clearly for what it is.

"There's almonst no positive response on the thread"

I actually see quite a bit of positive response on the thread, and even more ingame and via skype, it's just that those with a negative response are the ones taking the time to make complaint posts, while the rest are enjoying the game.

"A simple "Hey guys new money system, please change all notes to emeralds" a week in advance would have solved the majority of these woes."

Was not possible, the minas notes have been gone for a good while now, they are just maps and have been for quite some time now. That plugin was removed quite a while ago, we just had a basic iconomy plugin going in the meantime, which was also bugging and changing some people's minas count randomly and needed to be replaced, and it was.

"We would if the plugin actually still worked vaq is the only person who has the jar and as far as I am aware he has changed it massively so his version won't work with ours anymore."

^ that exactly. Vaq is no longer on the Staff, and his plugin is buggy and incompatible, which was why it was removed in the first place after it was added, with even less notice than this one I might add.

"how do we check how much everyone has? go by their word? I'm afraid I don't believe that would work."

Unfortunately this is true, we can't simply go on an 'honor system' and just give people what they say they had.

"why aren't players with mina notes allowed to just show them to an admin/moderator and get compensation?"

The mina notes are just maps, the data was stored via damage/item values, but it was not stored in any sort of logical manner in Vaq's plugin and has proven impossible to link to the plugin's data as to which notes had which values.

"if they can provide screenshots"

So easy to fake I won't even begin, not to mention VERY few players bother to screenshot their money, but if you can provide compelling and indisputable evidence, a refund probably isn't out of the question, it's just a difficult thing to prove beyond doubt.

And as far as reverting this change:

A change is going to happen, period. Whether it is now, next week, a month from now, it's going to happen, and it is NEEDED NOW because our old minas system was a buggy mess that caused errors, crashes, and corruption, our current (prior to this one) system was bugged and randomly changing stored values, and all the money in that one was just given out arbitrarily. This is the best course for the server, many people see that for the truth it is. Physical minas items is far more helpful to roleplay, yet the plugin still allows for /money pay transactions for larger amounts for the sake of time and convenience, it's a good balance of the two. Change is a fact of life, I see people all the time saying 'how great this or that was' months after it's gone when I clearly remember the same people complaining about that very thing at the time it was around, Aegis being a prime example. There are ALWAYS people unhappy with anything done, or not done, and they are the very vocal few.

The staff is here to improve the server, and that is what we are doing. If you have constructive questions, we will be happy to address them, but if you post after this with a complaint but no help towards something you feel would be a better plugin to implement, you're not likely to recieve an answer. The old mina notes are gone, that plugin was a buggy mess and that data cannot be recovered, we appologize, but that's how it is. None of the current staff implemented, or were even CONSULTED, about that plugin, and now we all pay the price for it.

Move forward, and do something constructive, be part of the solution.

"Will emeralds be mineable? Otherwise you have a currency that has no origins."

Emeralds are not RPly EMERALDS, they are Minas coins. We chose emeralds because they have no other purpose on LotC, as we do not use the vanilla NPC Villager merchants. RPly they are minted Minas coins. So no, they won't be mineable in all likelihood, you don't mine minted coins.

Only other option to getting coin is through admin/mod trading of diamonds or gold at 50emeralds-1 gold and 150emeralds-1 diamond. And then there's the problem of the map being created with too little ores in wilds,then having to use prebuilt mines to aquire said ores. Then there's the option of being a zombie hunter, or working for someone that has large amounts of emeralds. Is it me or was this answer, I don't know kind of condescending to me? I know we don't use the squid merchants, I know we don't mine coins so why did you reply in such a manner as to belittle me. I don't know thats how I felt by this reply.

[Friendly Guy 223]

Im not complaining but i just lost 50k due to this.......... *begins cussing Errr i mean *Smileing

[Picklerage 7]

He means Highway Robbery, no one will be carrying their physical minas on them.

Although this is mostly true (except for the fact that they might have picked up a few minas from a zombie on the way), it was exactly this way with the last system of IConomy. And even considering this fact, you can just go through the RP of getting robbed/robbing then pay the robber whichever amount. They only difference is that you don't physically throw the minas.

[Casamir 42]

Although this is mostly true (except for the fact that they might have picked up a few minas from a zombie on the way), it was exactly this way with the last system of IConomy. And even considering this fact, you can just go through the RP of getting robbed/robbing then pay the robber whichever amount. They only difference is that you don't physically throw the minas.

You mean the mina system in Aegis that was all text based? thats true people would RP and then ay them, but the threat of death and losing a % of the money was always a good initiative to not run away, and to just pay them.