Update:: The new Money Management System

[Sister Sequoia 438]

To answer various things since the last post in no particular order::

"Add some form of LWC to the vault chests."

LWC already works on vault chests, a chest being LWC'd or not has no bearing on the Vault plugin, you can LWC them yourself, this was stated in the OP.

"Make a limit ASAP for how many vault chests a player can place."

We will be, but not just yet. Once the plugin recognizes Emerald Blocks as 9 minas, then we'll set the # of vaults limitation, until then, minas takes up a lot of space, so we're allowing unlimited vaults to compensate for the moment.

"The fact that an admin does not appear to have even been informed of this thing"

several admins WERE informed of this thing, and not all staff are on 24 hours a day, every day, or even more than a couple times a week. The two plugin GM's were added to specifically find, tweak, and implement such plugins at their own discression, given to them by shiftnative. They are working for the betterment of the server, and this was tested on the test server to ensure stability before it was brought over to Live.

"Will emeralds be mineable? Otherwise you have a currency that has no origins."

Emeralds are not RPly EMERALDS, they are Minas coins. We chose emeralds because they have no other purpose on LotC, as we do not use the vanilla NPC Villager merchants. RPly they are minted Minas coins. So no, they won't be mineable in all likelihood, you don't mine minted coins.

"Maybe you could advertise the use of banks for vaults"

That would be up for enterprising players to do. If you feel it could be profitable, go open a Vault Bank RPly.

"It's not that people don't like the change, it's that the economy disappeared along with everyone's cash."

True, but the economy had ALREADY disappeared and the plugin that had the map Minas Notes was already dead and not up to date for 1.4, nor was the data stored in any logical manner so extracting people's minas note values proved impossible. Plus there would be no way to link a particular minas note value to a player in this method, as they aren't exactly bound to a player, they're just loose items. A decision needed to be made, and one was made for the good of the future of the server.

"I think the GM's should host some sort of event to get some Mina back."

I've been having similar thoughts, will be discussing this with the staff and event team when I have the chance.

"and realised this is the better move for the server. People need to realise this and stop hating on the admins and GM's. "

Thank you for seeing this clearly for what it is.

"There's almonst no positive response on the thread"

I actually see quite a bit of positive response on the thread, and even more ingame and via skype, it's just that those with a negative response are the ones taking the time to make complaint posts, while the rest are enjoying the game.

"A simple "Hey guys new money system, please change all notes to emeralds" a week in advance would have solved the majority of these woes."

Was not possible, the minas notes have been gone for a good while now, they are just maps and have been for quite some time now. That plugin was removed quite a while ago, we just had a basic iconomy plugin going in the meantime, which was also bugging and changing some people's minas count randomly and needed to be replaced, and it was.

"We would if the plugin actually still worked vaq is the only person who has the jar and as far as I am aware he has changed it massively so his version won't work with ours anymore."

^ that exactly. Vaq is no longer on the Staff, and his plugin is buggy and incompatible, which was why it was removed in the first place after it was added, with even less notice than this one I might add.

"how do we check how much everyone has? go by their word? I'm afraid I don't believe that would work."

Unfortunately this is true, we can't simply go on an 'honor system' and just give people what they say they had.

"why aren't players with mina notes allowed to just show them to an admin/moderator and get compensation?"

The mina notes are just maps, the data was stored via damage/item values, but it was not stored in any sort of logical manner in Vaq's plugin and has proven impossible to link to the plugin's data as to which notes had which values.

"if they can provide screenshots"

So easy to fake I won't even begin, not to mention VERY few players bother to screenshot their money, but if you can provide compelling and indisputable evidence, a refund probably isn't out of the question, it's just a difficult thing to prove beyond doubt.

And as far as reverting this change:

A change is going to happen, period. Whether it is now, next week, a month from now, it's going to happen, and it is NEEDED NOW because our old minas system was a buggy mess that caused errors, crashes, and corruption, our current (prior to this one) system was bugged and randomly changing stored values, and all the money in that one was just given out arbitrarily. This is the best course for the server, many people see that for the truth it is. Physical minas items is far more helpful to roleplay, yet the plugin still allows for /money pay transactions for larger amounts for the sake of time and convenience, it's a good balance of the two. Change is a fact of life, I see people all the time saying 'how great this or that was' months after it's gone when I clearly remember the same people complaining about that very thing at the time it was around, Aegis being a prime example. There are ALWAYS people unhappy with anything done, or not done, and they are the very vocal few.

The staff is here to improve the server, and that is what we are doing. If you have constructive questions, we will be happy to address them, but if you post after this with a complaint but no help towards something you feel would be a better plugin to implement, you're not likely to recieve an answer. The old mina notes are gone, that plugin was a buggy mess and that data cannot be recovered, we appologize, but that's how it is. None of the current staff implemented, or were even CONSULTED, about that plugin, and now we all pay the price for it.

Move forward, and do something constructive, be part of the solution.

[Rusty7x 114]

So that's pretty much 6 months of role play out of the window then if I'm not allowed my money back.

[Ned Lud 1260]

Actually it did happen before, and we refunded people.

http://www.lordofthecraft.net/forum/index.php?/topic/47009-claiming-minas-with-a-charter/page__p__350168__fromsearch__1#entry350168

That was more of a stimulus. Players only got back a piddly 500 and permission to grind mobs. Although I do think there should be another set stimulus per nation/city/town, just no personal player refunds based on screenshots. Nation leaders need their money to stimulate role-play, but the only fair way is to do a set amount for each and every one, and sort've low-ball it.

[Merkaken 516]

I do like that we do have minas back, don't get me wrong, and that we have an economy system in general. It just kinda seems like a middle finger to the people who worked really hard to get those minas (Not to say that the admins/gms are at fault) and I think it is reasonable that people are angry about it. HOWEVER, they shouldn't get mad at the GM's. The Gm's aren't in the Legion of Doom, rubbing their hands together and taking our money just to be evil villains. I really doubt they'd get away with that. While it's understandable to be aggravated at the situation, I don't think that blaming the GM's or Admins is appropriate.

[Sister Sequoia 438]

I do like that we do have minas back, don't get me wrong, and that we have an economy system in general. It just kinda seems like a middle finger to the people who worked really hard to get those minas (Not to say that the admins/gms are at fault) and I think it is reasonable that people are angry about it. HOWEVER, they shouldn't get mad at the GM's. The Gm's aren't in the Legion of Doom, rubbing their hands together and taking our money just to be evil villains. I really doubt they'd get away with that. While it's understandable to be aggravated at the situation, I don't think that blaming the GM's or Admins is appropriate.

Thank you. This problem started a good while back, and we are discussing various solutions to the concerns brought to us. This system is here to stay, and the server will be all the better for it. None of the current staff were involved in the various money system changes before, and the current staff is left with picking up the pieces and implementing one to stay with us for good.

Believe me when I say he's right, we're not "sitting in the corner rubbing our hands together and bwahaha'ing that we're taking all your monies." -stops rubbing hands and coughs-

[Merkaken 516]

Thank you. This problem started a good while back, and we are discussing various solutions to the concerns brought to us. This system is here to stay, and the server will be all the better for it. None of the current staff were involved in the various money system changes before, and the current staff is left with picking up the pieces and implementing one to stay with us for good.

Believe me when I say he's right, we're not "sitting in the corner rubbing our hands together and bwahaha'ing that we're taking all your monies." -stops rubbing hands and coughs-

No problem :)

[George of House Glover 372]

what's the reasoning of some having 1 million minas?

Oh wait... it was given to them when the minas were reset...

The War Uzg gets money through many things, slaving, raiding, war, tribute, ransom. The orcs don't have a pocket gm to spawn them money and diamonds and so on, we have to get it all ourselves.

[Rusty7x 114]

That was more of a stimulus. Players only got back a piddly 500 and permission to grind mobs. Although I do think there should be another set stimulus per nation/city/town, just no personal player refunds based on screenshots. Nation leaders need their money to stimulate role-play, but the only fair way is to do a set amount for each and every one, and sort've low-ball it.

At that time I was refunded my money back. All 220'000 Mina of it. Obviously now I have had much more.

[Hunter (sckolar) 50]

I like it all, but I do think it would be nice to keep skeletons...

[Pr0nz0r 7]

I just don't understand why the old system was bad?

I found it really simple, and effective.

[Ned Lud 1260]

For future reference though, next time you guys wipe the minas, you might consider making an announcement beforehand. Make it loud and public and give everyone at least a week to take screenshots of their wealth. Then have a formal process for reimbursement. This really does screw over all the merchants and businessmen, especially when they're blind-sided by it with no screenshots. If the community was more informed beforehand, there'd likely be 90% less of a problem right now. We appreciate our staff, but y'all really need to improve communications.

[Pr0nz0r 7]

For future reference though, next time you guys wipe the minas, you might consider making an announcement beforehand. Make it loud and public and give everyone at least a week to take screenshots of their wealth. Then have a formal process for reimbursement. This really does screw over all the merchants and businessmen, especially when they're blind-sided by it with no screenshots. If the community was more informed beforehand, there'd likely be 90% less of a problem right now. We appreciate our staff, but y'all really need to improve communications.

Agreed

[Picklerage 7]

"Add some form of LWC to the vault chests."

LWC already works on vault chests, a chest being LWC'd or not has no bearing on the Vault plugin, you can LWC them yourself, this was stated in the OP.

"Make a limit ASAP for how many vault chests a player can place."

We will be, but not just yet. Once the plugin recognizes Emerald Blocks as 9 minas, then we'll set the # of vaults limitation, until then, minas takes up a lot of space, so we're allowing unlimited vaults to compensate for the moment.

"Maybe you could advertise the use of banks for vaults"

That would be up for enterprising players to do. If you feel it could be profitable, go open a Vault Bank RPly.

Seeing as you quoted my post in these areas here, I would like to clarify what I meant by these, and maybe get your reply to what I was trying to say.

First, the LWC part. What I said in the post, or at least tried to, was that only donators can use LWC (as far as I know) so most players won't be able lock their "vaults" which seems kind of oxymoronic to me. This would allow anybody to steal their items, or possibly even mistake their for somebody elses. Again, I could be totally wrong in normal members can use LWC

The next part, the one about making a limit for how many vault chests a player can place was directly corresponding with the LWC one, since if you had unlimited LWC type chests all over the place, it would be hell and they would be spammed all over the place. Also though, because I do think it is a rule to now break them.

Finally, the bank vaults part. I'll ahh... you know... take care of that... wouldn't want anybody stealing my idea :wink: But what I said in the rest of that post was that this wouldn't be possible unless LWC was implemented since there would be massive amount of minas in one place, and people could just go by and steal them with ease.

[Casamir 42]

Seeing as you quoted my post in these areas here, I would like to clarify what I meant by these, and maybe get your reply to what I was trying to say.

First, the LWC part. What I said in the post, or at least tried to, was that only donators can use LWC (as far as I know) so most players won't be able lock their "vaults" which seems kind of oxymoronic to me. This would allow anybody to steal their items, or possibly even mistake their for somebody elses. Again, I could be totally wrong in normal members can use LWC

As a non LWC access guy do what normal people do with safes, Hide them, you only need space above it for the Vault sign, thats it, so Put it behind a block, or under the floor, hidden room, ect. Not many people have their safes out in the open.

[Picklerage 7]

Well my train of thought was that 1) A vault is supposed to be, although hidden too, locked, and that is pretty much its whole purpose 2) If you live in a communal area, such as I do with the bunks of the Lances of Oren, it can be easily stole from by any random person 3) Allows for banks and the such, although I guess that could work with just getting a player with access to LWC to lock the door to the area.

Also, since you are a Bedrock VIP, do VIPs get unlimited LWC items, or do you have a specified amount?