Clarification On The Quick Clarification On Pvp Default

[Aislin 4354]

I just think it's annoying to have to sit there and hash out the votes and the tie-breakers between two groups of people deciding how to go about killing one another. If anything destroys the role-play immersion, it's any player anywhere that can be arsed to sit there and muddle over this bullshit when it's time to kill one another. Just to clarify, kill me any way you'd like so long as I don't have to sit there beforehand and discuss, at length, how it's done, then tally up a vote, work my way towards a compromise, shake hands and document everything with screenshots, then count to five. Just kill me or walk away if I have to be arsed to butcher the immersion with this ****.

 

The staff is supposed to be engineering a system that is as cohesive and roleplay-centric for the players so that we don't have to deliberate this ****. However, once again, they've left it to us to deal with problems rather than doing exactly what their job is: making a system that is conducive to RP.

 

P.s. I think it's funny you return right as they defile PvP default. There is no such thing as a coincidence!

[Gunner 775]

lol RP fighting is a joke. PvPing makes sense because we have armor for a reason. why. change. it. :(

[Rissing 199]

I get why you made the change, but apart from the lesser amount of ban reports, the problems have merely been exchanged for others.

( The change refering to go from the old rp def / rolling to pvp def. )

 

 

A blind man will never cry to be able to see, for he has never seen.

 

Take away sight from a seeing man and he will forever weep.

 

 

 

^ Learn from that, I just made it up, kind of cool..

[Alan 1815]

The clarification is just that; a clarification, not a rule change. Yes, the rule differs from the original stance we had on PvP default was first declared almost a year ago, but if anything that first declaration was a rough copy of the default that was open to amendment, and it WAS amended many times. Do you honestly not remember the various changes we've made in all that time since then, or did you just "coincidentally" forget to mention them? The most notable change that led to this one actually occurred when Freya and I entirely rewrote the rules to update and organize the Rules page of the forums, as announced in this thread:

 

(Finally) Updated Server Rules and Guidelines

 

MANY rules changed in this thread, and it's not like it was done so subtly. When the update above was made, the very rule we clarified today was written with the intent described in today's announcement, so it is in fact a clarification.

 

Now, to actually respond to the beef of your post, keep in mind that the clarification was made in the first place because the server was NOT in the perfect harmony regarding combat that you seem to be implying. Had everything been all fine and dandy, there would have been absolutely no need to make the clarification, yet here we stand (or sit, rather). I will not pretend like this version of the rule that was clarified today will solve all of the issues, because it most certainly will not, but I wholeheartedly believe that a fight which the majority favors will more often than not please the most people relative to other alternatives. Assuming people will congregate into settlements and that OOC arguments will become greatly more pronounced than they already are is exactly what it is; an assumption, and a rather extreme one at that.

 

With that being said, this was (once again) nothing but a clarification, but that doesn't mean that the stating of such sets the rule in stone. The rule is as open to change as it ever was, so if solid issues (AKA real issues rather than mere bickering about what it /might/ cause) begin to arise as a result of it then we can certainly amend it again. However, that comes with actually experiencing the negative side effects you have predicted, rather than simply assuming they will come to pass.

 

Also, just a passing note. I don't know why people seem to be under the impression that this clarification is a step towards returning to RP default. Putting it simply, it's not, in fact it's not even close to that. The default itself is still stated as PvP, and if most people prefer PvP anyways (including many RP fighters themselves when it comes to mass fights), then it will still dominate RP fighting. I'm not sure why people are already predicting the apocalypse and blowing this out of proportion when literally all we did was prevent a minority from forcing PvP upon a majority.

[Aislin 4354]

Also, just a passing note. I don't know why people seem to be under the impression that this clarification is a step towards returning to RP default. Putting it simply, it's not, in fact it's not even close to that.

 

That's not the issue. The issue is that the staff has put the decision in the players' hands. This may sound good, but the OOC will detract from immersion and the bickering will cause the community to further delve into cliques that hate each other.

 

As I've said before, PvP default was not the issue -- it's how the staff implemented it. You made PvP default then gave everybody a whole load of reasons to PvP and no reasons to RP. Of course PvP is going to be excessive.

 

Whatever. You're not going to change your mind because you never do so enjoy an angrier community.

[Priceflash 832]

Yeah it did. Poor villain RP, lead to you losing your villain app because there were strict rules that were specifically for villains. I believe I stated clearly that it would not 100% solve the issue as well, but a good chunk of it.

 

And yes, writing up that "essay" shows effort, that you actually wan- You know what, just read my post over and over lol

Villain roleplay is the same as protagonist roleplay.

If you can't do one, you really can't do either.

tl;dr you applied for the server, if that's not enough, then toughen up server applications

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Why is letting the majority decide such a bad thing?

Seriously, what is so terrible about this? Should one person's desire to RP or PvP overrule 2 or 3 people's desire to do the opposite? This seems like a huge overreaction.

[argonian 14254]

I get why you made the change, but apart from the lesser amount of ban reports, the problems have merely been exchanged for others.

( The change refering to go from the old rp def / rolling to pvp def. )

 

 

A blind man will never cry to be able to see, for he has never seen.

 

Take away sight from a seeing man and he will forever weep.

 

 

 

^ Learn from that, I just made it up, kind of cool..

You do realise that PVP was default all the way up to late Asulon, right? RP was default for less than a year, stop acting as if it was there from the start and there the longest,

 

It's not fair if someone is always getting 3 fps.  This is an RP server, not a PvP server.  Also, what if: one human is fighting an Uruk.  The Uruk would win in RP.  Though in a PvP battle, the Uruk may be terrible at PvP, allowing the human to win unfairly.  Yes, unfairly.  It makes no sense for a human to win at a battle against an Uruk, unless of course they're using magic.  

Except, the Human could win due to being more agile while the Uruk could be slow. Or maybe this Uruk, while strong, could be in full bloodlust and swinging his axe wildly while the Human is making better blows?

 

And if you really got 3 FPS you would barely be able to walk in Minecraft, let alone sprint jump and PVP which I have seen you do. Sometimes I limit my FPS really low for a laugh and even 10 makes it hard to walk and sprinting near impossible.

[Rissing 199]

 

You do realise that PVP was default all the way up to late Asulon, right? RP was default for less than a year, stop acting as if it was there from the start and there the longest,

 

Except, the Human could win due to being more agile while the Uruk could be slow. Or maybe this Uruk, while strong, could be in full bloodlust and swinging his axe wildly while the Human is making better blows?

 

And if you really got 3 FPS you would barely be able to walk in Minecraft, let alone sprint jump and PVP which I have seen you do. Sometimes I limit my FPS really low for a laugh and even 10 makes it hard to walk and sprinting near impossible.

 

 

Say James, did you know I was gone from mid asulon ? ^_^

So I am just speaking on what I know.

[argonian 14254]

Say James, did you know I was gone from mid asulon ? ^_^

So I am just speaking on what I know.

Then you still know that PVP was default for the majority of the time you were on the server, when you first joined and now.

[Hunter (sckolar) 50]

Seriously, what is so terrible about this? Should one person's desire to RP or PvP overrule 2 or 3 people's desire to do the opposite? This seems like a huge overreaction.

 

I think it has it's ups and downs. A while ago, RP was what was focused on, and when big groups fought, they often times agreed to PVP. Power-gaming was not as common as it later became. Now most confrontations are PVP, and that has a large portion of the server on edge, for both sides of it. I think people miss the good old days where people didn't have to debate over this, with the majority of people getting along. I actually said this in a status update recently. RP fights were very enjoyable. Now players (especially were inexperienced ones) think PVP is more fun. I think players find them fun when they are both actually in use.

 

"I remember when it used to be (in my experience) very discouraged when players were inconsiderate for one another while RPing. Now RP, PVP, and "the higher voting side wins.""

 

It's not a big deal when majority decides unless the numbers are so close to nearly half *& half. Then you may as well say that half the server argues with the other. Even if there were 100 players and 51 voted for something, the other 49 players that are angry end up getting told "Nope! They had morel votes, deal with it" May seem reasonable, but that's also a lot of unhappy players. It almost seems criminal to call that "Majority" I think there needs to at least be a compromise for this, which is what I have been trying to think of. My leaders idea won't work out, but maybe there's something else. Villain apps come back, or more difficult server apps, and less tips given to new players.

 

I'd rather have things balanced out, rather than one side of the scale being heavier, so it gets the most sweets. But I can't say how many players prefer RP over PVP. My preference for RP is what causes me to speak a lot of this, so perhaps it's not as big as it looks to me.

[Rissing 199]

Then you still know that PVP was default for the majority of the time you were on the server, when you first joined and now.

It was never, when I was there, James.

Until the moment I was gone it was Rolling that were to be done if there was any discussion.

[mmat 7460]

To be honest I am absolutely bewildered about why this 'clarification' was made (by the way Alan, you might want to work on your definition of clarification) when there was absolutely nothing wrong with the system as it was before. The bottom line is this; even though the majority might want to RP fight, the minority will be having a terrible time for longer, because RP fights are tedious as all hell when you're not actually actively co-operating to the outcome, some have lasted over an hour, more if its a group fight. Whereas if it remained PvP default, the majority are only having a bad time for 30 seconds at the most. This rule 'clarification', while hopefully not a step towards RP default, which would be an absolutely unfathomable decision, causes more OOC bullshit than just simple PvP default did. 

 

Revert this, nobody will think worse of you for it. 

[A Spooky Witch 156]

No one is going to be happy about what people in charge do no matter what they do. The best thing to do is just go roleplay and not get so wrapped up in "server-OOC-politics"

 

I mean seriously people who cares? PVP is still default. Now go roleplay and put a god damn smile on your faces. Ge'ez.

[Major Dom 1297]

this is just gonna cause more arguments than we had before