Your View: Protagonist Proposition

[Alan 1815]

Heyo amigos
 
So this time I come to you guys with some feedback for a little brainstorming I’ve been doing with Urasept and the LMs regarding some foundational ideas behind a possible protagonist we could see in 4.0. Just to clear any misconceptions right off the bat, there WILL be an antagonist in 4.0 even if it is not immediately present, though whether or not there is a protagonist is up for debate. Due to past attempts and resulting failures at a protagonist, we are ensuring that this time we are prepared to do it right, hence why I am here to propose our ideas and gather feedback from you guys. I will not be going into the details of this possible protagonist, such as what its purpose is or how it will come to be or even what powers it will have (IF it will have any, which it might not depending on feedback), but rather I will be sharing its foundation based on our ideas of how to make it the most enjoyable for the players.
 
The first item of our brainstorming was how to make a potential protagonist exist without allowing room for elitism to grow, as was the case in past attempts (including the Ascended which was more or less regarded as our most successful protag so far). We explored the roots of elitism to solve this problem, and we agreed that it mainly stemmed from players thinking they’ve earned the right to be seen as “better” than everyone else. For this reason, we decided to focus on the initiation process of the protagonist (which WILL be made up of mostly players if we have one). Rather than having the protagonist be invitation only, where only those who show certain qualities are invited to join, we decided to do it in a way that is parallel to many existing guilds and organizations. Anyone and everyone can join, but to do so they must approach a higher up within the protagonist (exactly like asking an Archdruid to join the Druidic Order, or asking a Captain or other officer to join the Oren military), after which they have to complete a trial. This trial would not be something that only certain people can pass, but rather one that is based on commitment to joining. We believe that, under this system, protagonist players would be less inclined to feel “better” than others since everyone would have the ability to get to their position.
 
We next considered something more vital to the success and survival of the protagonist; reaching out to all styles of RP and thus all players, rather than just a select style only a handful of people would enjoy. First, we decided on four general categories that all players can be classified as (though maybe they can be in multiple). These categories are Peaceful Roleplayers, who prefer mundane, day-to-day activity roleplay and chatting with others the most; Conflict Roleplayers, who prefer fighting and battles the most whether via emotes or mechanics; Adventure Roleplayers, who prefer to explore and experience all aspects of LotC the most through wandering the world and participating in various activities; and Spontaneous Roleplayers, who just do whatever the heck they feel like doing in response to whatever the heck happens to happen to them. Afterwards, we arrived at a method to potentially appeal to all of these audiences, a method that we’ve already used many times and is pretty common all across the board, and that would be specializing roles within the protagonist itself. Without giving too much away, a possible idea was three distinct primary roles that one could server within the protagonist, those roles being the following:

• Protector - Those who would (as the name implies) protect the descendants, whether through actual fighting of the antagonist or through helping set up defenses or even by helping descendants evacuate a location that will be attacked
• Healer - Those who would mainly serve to heal the descendants, whether literally through magic, medicine or herbalism, or by simply helping communities rebuild and renew after an antagonist intervention
• Seeker - Those would would seek out incognito antagonists and weed them out, or perhaps spy on them directly to discover their next moves

These roles are admittedly pretty generic, but they work and we believe that these roles allow for anyone on the server regardless of style to fit in somehow, and more importantly anyone on the server can enjoy the RP brought on by these distinct styles.
 
We discussed a lot more than just these two points, but most of it was the gritty details that we will not publicly release until later on if we do end up following this route for a protagonist. For now, I’d like to know what you guys think so far. It’s not much to go on, but if we’re missing some key things to consider we’d like to know them before getting too deep into the planning stages. Do you think these ideas, if acted upon correctly, will lead to a protagonist that could actually be enjoyable? We’d also like to hear any and all suggestions you guys have at this point relating to any aspect of a protagonist, so be sure to leave your feedback!
 
Thanks for reading :)


 
PS - This thread is about the protagonist, so any comments that derail the conversation to a point that it focuses on the antagonist will be hidden.

[Treshure 5817]

First.

Let others make their own Protagonists in response, it'll have to happen eventually. If it doesn't fall through, make a Protagonist group and then after a month hand it off to a dedicated player, remove all staff ties to it (except maybe magic) and see how that goes.

[Crayfishchris 751]

This is exactly what the Scions had going for them, but this'll remain active. Me likey, so long as the players get an actual... say in what happens.

[Agnub 605]

First off... Ascended being "successful"? They were perhaps the most elite failure of a protagonist the server has ever seen. 

 

 

 

And let player groups create their own protagonist. You don't need some special snowflake group to save the world. Let people becomes the heroes (or villains) in the greater storyline. A pre-established protagonist group only leads to a more scripted storyline (where the staff can instruct a certain group one way or another). 

 

Best way to look at this: the protagonist is the player.

[Neri 3590]

First off... Ascended being "successful"? They were perhaps the most elite failure of a protagonist the server has ever seen. 

 

 

 

And let player groups create their own protagonist. You don't need some special snowflake group to save the world. Let people becomes the heroes (or villains) in the greater storyline. A pre-established protagonist group only leads to a more scripted storyline (where the staff can instruct a certain group one way or another). 

 

Best way to look at this: the protagonist is the player.

 

Pretty much this in my own opinion.

[Temp 2006]

I don't think any form of special angle should be created for the sake of combatting the antag. I just don't see a real need to create a particular group when most of the server already has some form of group that could potentially handle the next antag.

In the odd event that no one really stands a chance to counter the antag, it might need a debuff but, I'm hoping that's not potential issue.

[bulgaria is white 461]

First off... Ascended being "successful"? They were perhaps the most elite failure of a protagonist the server has ever seen. 

 

 

 

And let player groups create their own protagonist. You don't need some special snowflake group to save the world. Let people becomes the heroes (or villains) in the greater storyline. A pre-established protagonist group only leads to a more scripted storyline (where the staff can instruct a certain group one way or another). 

 

Best way to look at this: the protagonist is the player.

Pretty much summarizes what I would have said.

[Samson Option 9652]

The Ascended were good at stealing credit and being propped up by bullshit media. Thank God I had the Teutons kill them when we saw them.

 

Let players organize themselves as protagonistic forces.

[Alan 1815]

I agree that a protagonist is not needed, strictly speaking, but I believe one besides the players themselves would be a great addition to the server. Here are some things I mentioned in the skype chat when we were discussing the pros and cons of having any protagonist in the first place:
 
"I think we definitely should have a protag, because having one that incorporates players gives people a goal to set out for as well as a body to look up to, as was the case with the Ascended. Do I think we need another carbon copy of the Ascended or the Golden Lance? No, but we should have a strong protagonist nonetheless. Having just antag vs players has been proven to be foolhardy."
 
"With the Scourge the players essentially were the protagonist. The Golden Lance was so obsolete and unnoticed (even in the final closing posts of the Scourge, players said "wait wtf is the GL?") that they had little to no effect on the conflict other than what was written in. The Golden Lance doesn't count as part of the good vs. evil. They were so much in the background, they were so underused and disregarded, it was basically a player vs. evil conflict."
 
"In my opinion I think a protagonist would be a good addition for LotC. With just an antagonist, you have players that don't want to just be players that set goals for themselves to do something to get recognized and taken into the antag. That's how it was in Aegis with the Undead, that's how it was in Anthos with the Scourge. However, it's only leaving those that want to transcend being a common player with only one option; evil. Take a look at our community and you'll find that too many people want to be the hero or the villain, something important instead of the god forsaken idea of being normal (*gasps*). Though we don't look highly on this, we'll never be rid of it, so why not give the option for these people to set a goal for themselves to do something good and get inducted into the protag? Maybe some with the hero/villain syndrome could become part of the larger conflict while those that actually prefer common day-to-day RP would be left to themselves."
 
"I also get this nagging feeling that we need something that is black and white good vs evil to set the stage for conflict, rather than descending further into the murky gray and brown medieval esque conflict that seems to be rather one-sided on the enjoyment level."
 
PS-

 

First off... Ascended being "successful"? They were perhaps the most elite failure of a protagonist the server has ever seen.

Do notice that I did not say the Ascended were successful, I said they were the most successful of the protagonists we've had so far. Given that we haven't really succeeded at delivering a good and proper protagonist yet, this isn't saying much.

[Huh 91]

I can see this type of group as a positive. If it would provide engaging role-play, why not? Sure we can all be "our own heroes" but why not join something bigger? Say someone new joins the server and has no idea what do to find fun. Instead of wandering around and engaging in some 10-minute tavern role-play you could try and join the great force that combats the antag! I +1 this idea.

[ski_king3 0]

If you're going to make a protagonist, their only role should be to give regular players the tools to defeat the antagonist. I presume that the Golden Lance didn't end up doing that, but that was largely what I wanted them to do before I stepped down from staff/the antag and the lore made its way through several other hands to Kai.

 

There's no need to form a concrete protagonist group, as it will be almost impossible to get rid of the idea that they are elite in some way if they have established powers over others and an official title as the protagonists. Instead, create a group that will give other people the tools to form their own "protagonists" in RP.

 

EDIT: Also, I feel like the Golden Lance were a lot less useful because they were implemented so late, and were not given the attention they needed until it was far too late. Likewise, they changed a lot from their original intent (which wasn't to be a protagonist, as they were initially all supposed to die before the scourge was defeated), and didn't live up to their potential because of this. My hope was that they would give players tools to defeat the scourge, do a few cool badass things along the way in RP, die one by one by one, and leave the players with tools and an antag to defeat on their own.

 

Sorry if I'm a bit rambly.

[Alan 1815]

Not a bad idea Ski, that's definitely something we can consider as an alternative. 

[shiftnative 3103]

I think that an officialized (especially out-of-character) protagonist is more often than not detrimental, even if the intentions are great. I love protagonist groups but i feel as-though they should be created and orchestrated in-character or predispositions will more often then not arise.

Basically, stay away from ooc and convince peoples' characters, not them!

[Lanader - Richard Tarus 197]

I'd say let the players create the protagonist, but make sure they have some sort of organization. It doesn't need to be a special group with special powers, though, just an organized group that is there to help. Not every protagonist needs some sort of magic, but it always adds to the effect. I mean, what would make these protagonists different from any other player?

 

 

edit:

Players need a common goal, they all need something to strive for (if there is nothing for them to do.) For example, people who wanted to be good tried to become Ascended by helping where they can. Vice versa for Undead. It just gives players more stuff to do as well.

[no longer active 734]

In Aegis the FoA formed to fight the antagonist. The problem with the protagonist with this map was a) it was almost completely ET b) The antag did nothing so no one cared. The antag needs to blow peoples stuff up, make people fight for their pixels. You can judge how good the antagonist is based on how active or how many guilds are created to fight it. If its good enough you will find a powerful guild form ala FoA. Once that happens you can take the leader aside and do stuff with him. Lets keep as little staff involved as possible, the more they do the more stuff can go wrong.