[✗] The Degradation of Aurum

[The Elder Eye 101]

For too long have antagonistic races and their ilk been abused by the inhabitants of this server. What is the point of making a character one may only in a non-casual or antagonistic fashion, if they are so easily downed by every person that they encounter? I believe that the roleplay and ranks one has to go through to earn such a titleship of Wraith or Lich, deserve proper power. They are warping the souls of their very characters to become dark beings used for the intention of bringing harm and destruction, so why is it that every two-bit barmaiden can easily batter them down? I believe it is unfair to those who have gained such character accomplishments, and that it is offensive that they would be willing to destroy their character's humanity and vanity, just to be spoiled like such!

I give this post my support one-hundred percent!

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

tl;dr:

• A lot of people are turned off by spook RP as is
• Making it mandatory for us to find clerics/paladins/fi-mages would stagnate RP for us more than it would bring RP to clerics/paladins/fi-mages
• Being powerful is fine, being invincible is not
• IF wraiths are damaged by fire, that's good. But then when people find out IC, everyone will start carrying around flint&steel and the overarching problem resurfaces, no?
• Wanting to be un-killable to all but certain magic holders is selfish. All other "top most powerful forms" in other schools of magic (itharel, ascended, paladin keepers and hierophants) can be killed conventionally.

And most importantly,

• Nerf golden weapons so they're as effective against spooks as iron is against humans. Its a compromise and it fixes the problem of gold being the "kryptonite" of the wraith while also giving non-holy folks a fighting chance.

[excited 10833]

tl;dr:

• A lot of people are turned off by spook RP as is
• Making it mandatory for us to find clerics/paladins/fi-mages would stagnate RP for us more than it would bring RP to clerics/paladins/fi-mages
• Being powerful is fine, being invincible is not
• IF wraiths are damaged by fire, that's good. But then when people find out IC, everyone will start carrying around flint&steel and the overarching problem resurfaces, no?
• Wanting to be un-killable to all but certain magic holders is selfish. All other "top most powerful forms" in other schools of magic (itharel, ascended, paladin keepers and hierophants) can be killed conventionally.

And most importantly,

• Nerf golden weapons so they're as effective against spooks as iron is against humans. Its a compromise and it fixes the problem of gold being the "kryptonite" of the wraith while also giving non-holy folks a fighting chance.

Null, if a person sticks out a flint and steel to start a fire that's just a plain stupid way to go about doing it- unless you mean in a mechanical fight. And regardless, I have a feeling the Grave Lords would just strafe. The problem wouldn't really resurface. 

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

tl;dr:

• A lot of people are turned off by spook RP as is
• Making it mandatory for us to find clerics/paladins/fi-mages would stagnate RP for us more than it would bring RP to clerics/paladins/fi-mages
• Being powerful is fine, being invincible is not
• IF wraiths are damaged by fire, that's good. But then when people find out IC, everyone will start carrying around flint&steel and the overarching problem resurfaces, no?
• Wanting to be un-killable to all but certain magic holders is selfish. All other "top most powerful forms" in other schools of magic (itharel, ascended, paladin keepers and hierophants) can be killed conventionally.

And most importantly,

• Nerf golden weapons so they're as effective against spooks as iron is against humans. Its a compromise and it fixes the problem of gold being the "kryptonite" of the wraith while also giving non-holy folks a fighting chance.

Null, if a person sticks out a flint and steel to start a fire that's just a plain stupid way to go about doing it- unless you mean in a mechanical fight. And regardless, I have a feeling the Grave Lords would just strafe. The problem wouldn't really resurface. 

Wraith attacks abundant recently? Carry around sticks wrapped thickly in flammable cloth and a flint and steel wherever you go.

[Swgrclan 2633]

tl;dr:

• A lot of people are turned off by spook RP as is
• Making it mandatory for us to find clerics/paladins/fi-mages would stagnate RP for us more than it would bring RP to clerics/paladins/fi-mages
• Being powerful is fine, being invincible is not
• IF wraiths are damaged by fire, that's good. But then when people find out IC, everyone will start carrying around flint&steel and the overarching problem resurfaces, no?
• Wanting to be un-killable to all but certain magic holders is selfish. All other "top most powerful forms" in other schools of magic (itharel, ascended, paladin keepers and hierophants) can be killed conventionally.

And most importantly,

• Nerf golden weapons so they're as effective against spooks as iron is against humans. Its a compromise and it fixes the problem of gold being the "kryptonite" of the wraith while also giving non-holy folks a fighting chance.

1) I plan to fix this. Progress is slow but the vision is solid.
2) It's not hard. There's literally a cart in spawn leading to Aeroch'nor, which is by Destati, which is where the Clerics roam. Additionally, the Paladins roam Nordwen and Salvus. The Ascended are based in the same land as Laureh'lin. If none of these individuals are present, they can all be contacted OOC to give a heads up that you want to meet with them and RP. If making RP is what RP going stagnant is to you, I'm not sure how else to pose the matter.
3) #2 kind of goes over that, atleast when you include the prospect of getting holy or Fi/Wardmancer folks involved with protection and weapon blessing.
4) Fire is not gold. I would prefer a small legion of Fire Mages who had banded together for the sole purpose of pushing back the undead races over mobs with golden sticks, considering the more organic roleplay surrounding such a prospect. In the end, conventional fire isn't gold, and whether or not it's "carried" (flint and steel I guess) in abundance won't generate as much of a problem as gold weaponry does. Fire can scare off the spooks and build up better roleplay. Gold is used to kill the spooks in ever-repeating Julius Caesar-tier executions of these same, sinister individuals. Which is redundant for both parties involved.
5) Clerics, Paladins, Ascended, Itheral and Keepers were not made with the same purpose as Wraiths, Darkstalkers, Liches, Ghouls and Necromancers. The dark side was molded to be powerful and feared. The goodly side was made to counter that effectively. It doesn't really matter whether or not the benevolent forces can be harmed conventionally or not, because this is about the undead, and they're not undead whom have to deal with being bantered at while being stabbed with gold daggers from five people after approaching to give a little spooky roleplay to others. If we want to talk about holy magic groups, though, we should probably go back to the fact that they're displaced by abundant gold weaponry, not how tough they are in comparison to the other side they're rarely called to fight against.
6) This is already the case. Whoever spread the idea that it wasn't misunderstood the gold weakness. The point still stands-- what you propose for gold right now is what should be applied to holy and enchanted weapons instead, and with gold out of the picture so this game isn't so redundant and one-sided anymore.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Clerics/Paladins and Fi' magic users aren't nearly as common as you make them out to be and I'm not eager to see wraiths have a guaranteed victory every time we can't muster one online.

Maybe if you're being constantly attacked by mobs with gold weapons, then its the fact that you're massively outnumbered leading to your death, not the gold. A single guy with gold could be easily taken down by a wraith.

At the end of the day, this is a game, and no one wants to face something that they can't beat. I see you used the terms "redundant and one sided", well accepting this lore would simply switch the scales in your favour, not balance it out. I'm not eager to have spectral demi-gods waft into town and have me and my 7-8 guards be able to do ****-all (after vigourously scouring the skypelands for paladins who can potentially log on, of course). Have them W/E some trees after killing us and waltzing off.

At the end of the day, I see a lore post written up to give the writer's personal group a bigger advantage to their already very powerful RP faction.

[AlmondTree 418]

tl;dr:

• A lot of people are turned off by spook RP as is
• Making it mandatory for us to find clerics/paladins/fi-mages would stagnate RP for us more than it would bring RP to clerics/paladins/fi-mages
• Being powerful is fine, being invincible is not
• IF wraiths are damaged by fire, that's good. But then when people find out IC, everyone will start carrying around flint&steel and the overarching problem resurfaces, no?
• Wanting to be un-killable to all but certain magic holders is selfish. All other "top most powerful forms" in other schools of magic (itharel, ascended, paladin keepers and hierophants) can be killed conventionally.

And most importantly,

• Nerf golden weapons so they're as effective against spooks as iron is against humans. Its a compromise and it fixes the problem of gold being the "kryptonite" of the wraith while also giving non-holy folks a fighting chance.

1) I plan to fix this. Progress is slow but the vision is solid.
2) It's not hard. There's literally a cart in spawn leading to Aeroch'nor, which is by Destati, which is where the Clerics roam. Additionally, the Paladins roam Nordwen and Salvus. The Ascended are based in the same land as Laureh'lin. If none of these individuals are present, they can all be contacted OOC to give a heads up that you want to meet with them and RP. If making RP is what RP going stagnant is to you, I'm not sure how else to pose the matter.
3) #2 kind of goes over that, atleast when you include the prospect of getting holy or Fi/Wardmancer folks involved with protection and weapon blessing.
4) Fire is not gold. I would prefer a small legion of Fire Mages who had banded together for the sole purpose of pushing back the undead races over mobs with golden sticks, considering the more organic roleplay surrounding such a prospect. In the end, conventional fire isn't gold, and whether or not it's "carried" (flint and steel I guess) in abundance won't generate as much of a problem as gold weaponry does. Fire can scare off the spooks and build up better roleplay. Gold is used to kill the spooks in ever-repeating Julius Caesar-tier executions of these same, sinister individuals. Which is redundant for both parties involved.
5) Clerics, Paladins, Ascended, Itheral and Keepers were not made with the same purpose as Wraiths, Darkstalkers, Liches, Ghouls and Necromancers. The dark side was molded to be powerful and feared. The goodly side was made to counter that effectively. It doesn't really matter whether or not the benevolent forces can be harmed conventionally or not, because this is about the undead, and they're not undead whom have to deal with being bantered at while being stabbed with gold daggers from five people after approaching to give a little spooky roleplay to others. If we want to talk about holy magic groups, though, we should probably go back to the fact that they're displaced by abundant gold weaponry, not how tough they are in comparison to the other side they're rarely called to fight against.
6) This is already the case. Whoever spread the idea that it wasn't misunderstood the gold weakness. The point still stands-- what you propose for gold right now is what should be applied to holy and enchanted weapons instead, and with gold out of the picture so this game isn't so redundant and one-sided anymore.

What actual means do we the "holy side" have to combat the "dark side" ? I mean, you got to remember that baddies have hidden bases they have disguises and lists of people who know them and they most likely are not publicly known cause they either kill their victims or just a select few knows what they are. I like this idea but I still do not think it is fair at all, we HAVE to remember that interaction is server wide and not a war between good and evil. It's not really about things being one sided, we already have the privilege of playing a special type of character. 

I came and thought Iron and Gold ores were being harder to find, I was wrong!

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

we HAVE to remember that interaction is server wide and not a war between good and evil. It's not really about things being one sided, we already have the privilege of playing a special type of character. 

Thank you! Summarized very nicely my entire argument

[Swgrclan 2633]

Clerics/Paladins and Fi' magic users aren't nearly as common as you make them out to be and I'm not eager to see wraiths have a guaranteed victory every time we can't muster one online.

Maybe if you're being constantly attacked by mobs with gold weapons, then its the fact that you're massively outnumbered leading to your death, not the gold. A single guy with gold could be easily taken down by a wraith.

At the end of the day, this is a game, and no one wants to face something that they can't beat. I see you used the terms "redundant and one sided", well accepting this lore would simply switch the scales in your favour, not balance it out. I'm not eager to have spectral demi-gods waft into town and have me and my 7-8 guards be able to do ****-all (after vigourously scouring the skypelands for paladins who can potentially log on, of course). Have them W/E some trees after killing us and waltzing off.

At the end of the day, I see a lore post written up to give the writer's personal group a bigger advantage to their already very powerful RP faction.

They're not common because they're absent, I think. If more people played at involving them in the neat stuff that's planned, I reckon they wouldn't stay so small anymore. Even then, my point still applies. Work out a meeting in Skype or something to get your weapons blessed to fight against the spooks. You don't need the presence of the holy/arcane folk, but it will help alongside blessed weaponry made by them.

A warrior with a gold sword and a Wraith are nearly on-par. It just takes a little cunning for the fleshbag to ultimately get the upper hand in such a situation, and not the blind bumrushing that has been so prevelent in each Wraith/undead attack as of recent.

It would not switch the scales because, as you said, being massively outnumbered is often the case. All this means is that the same mobs of people would have to make an effort to not make themselves and their swarming tactics useless via the inclusion of other evil-fighting assets, gold notwithstanding. If you want another example to how things are imbalanced here, atleast from a mechanical standpoint (thankfully the spooks aren't RP-only anymore thanks to 501's help), look at it this way: a warclaim had been initiated by a horde of skeleton warriors and mages (players with the Necrolyte race), led by four Wraiths (players with the Spectre race). The town they seek to conquer arms themselves with easily-obtainable golden weaponry, which is designed to easily dispose of those with the Necrolyte and Spectre races. While the invading force has powerful buffs, the defenders in the end have an objectively higher chance of winning the battle because they all have access to gold. Now repeat this same process five times. That's five losses for the invading tide of darkness which isn't as powerful and terrible as they're suppose to be because the peasant hamlet they sought to invade was defended by banterlords with ball-breakingly powerful weapons able to be made on a whim.

It's like if an Orcish tribe tried to invade a human town and the defending force was armed with Sharpness 3 swords - it's ridiculous. It's a done deal for the attackers. This whole example translates into RP instances just as easily. By cutting out the issue (golden weaponry) and replacing them with a neglected asset (holy orders/antimagic stuff) who are able to replace golden weaponry with weapons of their own make, the town may hold their own against their impeding doom, all the while keeping things balanced with an appropriate amount of enchanted weaponry and holy-affiliated allies. If I wanted to make things one sided, Leo, I'd just suggest removing all anti-evil weaknesses all together so my skeleton army could bumfuck your Tree-Elf town with their race buffs. That's not the case, however, banter aside.



 

[zaezae 1097]

 

he -- unlike the most of those commenting -- actually has a character that is afflicted by this and says it is prevalent. He is right in saying that on a good day the 'forces of evil' don't really band together to try and roll over something, but even when they do or do so in small numbers they are the ones to lose three out of four times. I'd say favor his perspective.

I don't feel like it's necessary to be fair to an antagonistic bunch that are already propped up on more lore-friendly advantages. If this a debate about balance or fairness, or what-ever, I only see the proposal as a means to make LoTC less fair to a certain group (that being the majority of non-cleric, non-spook characters)

More like "I want to be able to beat literally everything by violent attacking anything that I don't like. This includes attacking a ghost. A ghost. With a sword. I already don't RP fear from literally anything, because I have the ability to leeroy genkins anything on the server. Anything that hinders this even a little bit is unfair"

Honestly, wanting golden weapons as they are now basically means. "I want a fair fights, which means that a super common weapon that anyone can have should be able to instantly kill a spook."

Also, where is the dynamic RP argument coming out at, or does that only happen when more mechanically inclined players are in the hot-seat? Oh oh, now it's all about what's fair for everyone else. Basically what I am saying, yes I support this change that prevents people from instantly disposing of any RP they don't like. Still upsetting we can't get people to RP fear properly. I mean guys don't worry, there are always ways to violently attack literally anything that you encounter and pretty much win every single time if you just prepare.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Everyone should have a chance to kill a wraith, no matter how slim. Obviously a well trained paladin's chances and a random soldier with a gold sword's chances are going to be vastly different. But everyone should have a fighting chance.

Frankly, you'll always be ganked by large amounts of people, and those overwhelming numbers will be the reason you lose. Not whatever you choose to make yourself weak/immune to.

Make gold less effective on wraiths, but don't make it useless. That should give you the inherent advantage you want so badly against us non-special, non-snowflake puny mortals. No group should only be exclusively killable by certain factions and their enchantments.

[AlmondTree 418]

Clerics/Paladins and Fi' magic users aren't nearly as common as you make them out to be and I'm not eager to see wraiths have a guaranteed victory every time we can't muster one online.

Maybe if you're being constantly attacked by mobs with gold weapons, then its the fact that you're massively outnumbered leading to your death, not the gold. A single guy with gold could be easily taken down by a wraith.

At the end of the day, this is a game, and no one wants to face something that they can't beat. I see you used the terms "redundant and one sided", well accepting this lore would simply switch the scales in your favour, not balance it out. I'm not eager to have spectral demi-gods waft into town and have me and my 7-8 guards be able to do ****-all (after vigourously scouring the skypelands for paladins who can potentially log on, of course). Have them W/E some trees after killing us and waltzing off.

At the end of the day, I see a lore post written up to give the writer's personal group a bigger advantage to their already very powerful RP faction.

They're not common because they're absent, I think. If more people played at involving them in the neat stuff that's planned, I reckon they wouldn't stay so small anymore. Even then, my point still applies. Work out a meeting in Skype or something to get your weapons blessed to fight against the spooks. You don't need the presence of the holy/arcane folk, but it will help alongside blessed weaponry made by them.

A warrior with a gold sword and a Wraith are nearly on-par. It just takes a little cunning for the fleshbag to ultimately get the upper hand in such a situation, and not the blind bumrushing that has been so prevelent in each Wraith/undead attack as of recent.

It would not switch the scales because, as you said, being massively outnumbered is often the case. All this means is that the same mobs of people would have to make an effort to not make themselves and their swarming tactics useless via the inclusion of other evil-fighting assets, gold notwithstanding. If you want another example to how things are imbalanced here, atleast from a mechanical standpoint (thankfully the spooks aren't RP-only anymore thanks to 501's help), look at it this way: a warclaim had been initiated by a horde of skeleton warriors and mages (players with the Necrolyte race), led by four Wraiths (players with the Spectre race). The town they seek to conquer arms themselves with easily-obtainable golden weaponry, which is designed to easily dispose of those with the Necrolyte and Spectre races. While the invading force has powerful buffs, the defenders in the end have an objectively higher chance of winning the battle because they all have access to gold. Now repeat this same process five times. That's five losses for the invading tide of darkness which isn't as powerful and terrible as they're suppose to be because the peasant hamlet they sought to invade was defended by banterlords with ball-breakingly powerful weapons able to be made on a whim.

It's like if an Orcish tribe tried to invade a human town and the defending force was armed with Sharpness 3 swords - it's ridiculous. It's a done deal for the attackers. This whole example translates into RP instances just as easily. By cutting out the issue (golden weaponry) and replacing them with a neglected asset (holy orders/antimagic stuff) who are able to replace golden weaponry with weapons of their own make, the town may hold their own against their impeding doom, all the while keeping things balanced with an appropriate amount of enchanted weaponry and holy-affiliated allies. If I wanted to make things one sided, Leo, I'd just suggest removing all anti-evil weaknesses all together so my skeleton army could bumfuck your Tree-Elf town with their race buffs. That's not the case, however, banter aside.



 

I'd like you to refer to what I said above about us being absent. You are now just taking your side in consideration, regular people want a chance. It is one sided as it only benefits one side, it doesn't bring much roleplay to the non-deity people nor the deity people as you'd imagine and appears to me be an attempt to just make your side's roleplay.

 

Like I said, there's not enough people to patrol and scout things.

 

1: Dark arts usually have a hidden base, and I mean completely hidden.

 

2: Dark art's usually are not known, I'll refer to Lorien for example that keeps a list on people or else he can with ease prove metagaming, there's no possibility to hunt anything(Nor do we want to constantly search for dark arts) with IRL life and other things in consideration.

 

3: I fear that this will cause an outrage in the "mortal" community and just literally F**K things up for you guys even more with meta-squads, raids and excuses.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

 

he -- unlike the most of those commenting -- actually has a character that is afflicted by this and says it is prevalent. He is right in saying that on a good day the 'forces of evil' don't really band together to try and roll over something, but even when they do or do so in small numbers they are the ones to lose three out of four times. I'd say favor his perspective.

I don't feel like it's necessary to be fair to an antagonistic bunch that are already propped up on more lore-friendly advantages. If this a debate about balance or fairness, or what-ever, I only see the proposal as a means to make LoTC less fair to a certain group (that being the majority of non-cleric, non-spook characters)

More like "I want to be able to beat literally everything by violent attacking anything that I don't like. This includes attacking a ghost. A ghost. With a sword. I already don't RP fear from literally anything, because I have the ability to leeroy genkins anything on the server. Anything that hinders this even a little bit is unfair"

Honestly, wanting golden weapons as they are now basically means. "I want a fair fights, which means that a super common weapon that anyone can have should be able to instantly kill a spook."

Also, where is the dynamic RP argument coming out at, or does that only happen when more mechanically inclined players are in the hot-seat? Oh oh, now it's all about what's fair for everyone else. Basically what I am saying, yes I support this change that prevents people from instantly disposing of any RP they don't like. Still upsetting we can't get people to RP fear properly. I mean guys don't worry, there are always ways to violently attack literally anything that you encounter and pretty much win every single time if you just prepare.

Give the poor straw fellow some mercy.

 

Quite the opposite is true. These are groups whose entire purpose is to go around murdering innocent mortals. That is their purpose. When this is subverted in any way, we get silly arguments such as your own.

[zaezae 1097]

Everyone should have a chance to kill a wraith, no matter how slim. Obviously a well trained paladin's chances and a random soldier with a gold sword's chances are going to be vastly different. But everyone should have a fighting chance.

I'll be honest, with respect Leo, but this basically plays out as "Everyone has a right to win against dark arts all the time." I mean, since when was RP a constant competition where every situation has to be fair? Why is winning so important? I mean, I think people might enjoy spooks more if they actually tried to. I enjoy attacks when I RP fear and play along. I don't care if I win or lose. I mean, I undergame very very hard for the simple fact that people are so uber focused on winning that I'd rather lose consistently nearly every time for the sake of having fun. 

 

I honestly think this is more about people wanting to be able to dispose of RP immediately and not try and play along. Which happens all. The. Time.

[zaezae 1097]

 

he -- unlike the most of those commenting -- actually has a character that is afflicted by this and says it is prevalent. He is right in saying that on a good day the 'forces of evil' don't really band together to try and roll over something, but even when they do or do so in small numbers they are the ones to lose three out of four times. I'd say favor his perspective.

I don't feel like it's necessary to be fair to an antagonistic bunch that are already propped up on more lore-friendly advantages. If this a debate about balance or fairness, or what-ever, I only see the proposal as a means to make LoTC less fair to a certain group (that being the majority of non-cleric, non-spook characters)

More like "I want to be able to beat literally everything by violent attacking anything that I don't like. This includes attacking a ghost. A ghost. With a sword. I already don't RP fear from literally anything, because I have the ability to leeroy genkins anything on the server. Anything that hinders this even a little bit is unfair"

Honestly, wanting golden weapons as they are now basically means. "I want a fair fights, which means that a super common weapon that anyone can have should be able to instantly kill a spook."

Also, where is the dynamic RP argument coming out at, or does that only happen when more mechanically inclined players are in the hot-seat? Oh oh, now it's all about what's fair for everyone else. Basically what I am saying, yes I support this change that prevents people from instantly disposing of any RP they don't like. Still upsetting we can't get people to RP fear properly. I mean guys don't worry, there are always ways to violently attack literally anything that you encounter and pretty much win every single time if you just prepare.

Give the poor straw fellow some mercy.

 

Quite the opposite is true. These are groups whose entire purpose is to go around murdering innocent mortals. That is their purpose. When this is subverted in any way, we get silly arguments such as your own.

Character morality isn't relevant. You do understand that right? That no character is better than another? That said, attacking a ghost with a sword is silly and dumb. I understand that people want to be able to solve problems with cookie-cutter *swings sword* but it doesn't always make sense, and it isn't good RP. Besides, lol, I personally lose nearly all of my fights, but I'm not concerned with winning in RP, because put simply, that isn't the point.

A single wraith taking an entire city hostage is dumb.

A mundane warrior holding a common weapon instantly killing a wraith is dumb.