LoTC Combat sucks rant.

[LatzMomo 2088]

This is not feedback, you may not close this thread unless it devolves into a shitfest of slinging insults.

Sorry about grammar, I'm not gonna fix it.

 

Topics:

-Raid rules.

-Casus belli system.

-Nexus skills and professions.

 

 

1. Raid Rules

Spoiler

Lawless Raiding:

 

Lawless raiding is defined as players killing, robbing or causing chaos within a settlement. This type of raid is restricted to 2 - 4 players. The raiding party is given 30 minutes to start conflict within the settlement or they will be forced to leave. If conflict is initiated, they have an hour to finish it meaning the maximum time on a raid is 1.5 hours. In times of war, lawless raiding is replaced by war raids with 2 - 12 players. War raids require an approved warclaim post, and express permission from a War Team GM.

 

This system is awful. People who are not affiliated with a nation are getting completely shafted by this rule, and it promotes them to buy land, grind their asses off, and make over powered gear to raid. These players are basically at the mercy of the Defender, and it promotes raiding at the settlements down time (AKA midnight raids). Creating a system that is basically a band-aid for other problems is already wrong in itself, but creating a system that's a bandaid and creates more problems is just straight up garbage. You can do better then this, War and Villainy teams.

 

Spoiler

Lawful Raiding:

 

Lawful raiding is defined as players attempting to rescue an individual from within a settlement or counter-raiding which is responding to a settlement being raided by in turn raiding the settlement owned by the initial attacking party.. This type of raid is restricted to 2 - 12 players. The raiding party have 1 hour to rescue the captive and are allowed to use TNT / ladders as needed. The raiding party is given 30 minutes to start conflict within the settlement or they will be forced to leave. If conflict is initiated, they have an hour to finish it meaning the maximum time on a raid is 1.5 hours. This type of raid requires GM approval , and bypasses raid cooldowns.

 

You want to create another raid thing, sure, it's unneeded, but sure. I'll take it. There really shouldn't be different types of raids, but if you wanna raise the amount you can bring to raid settlements who have an important captive or you're at war with, that could be cool.

 

Good job on removing counter raids though, that **** was garbage tier, and any system that needs a GM to give you permission is garbage tier as well. We all know that sometimes it takes over an hour to get help from a GM, and by that time, people probably don't wanna do a raid anymore, or their rally has logged off, or gotten busy with another task.

 

Raid rules are just a shield to hide behind, you should be defending your nation with RP, rather than OOC. Make alliances and declare war on said group or nation if they're raiding you. Or, I dunno, just build a Krag tier settlement. When I was with Norland, it was literally non-stop raids until we sucked it up and made something that both looked good, and worked as a PvP fort. This was our RP solution, we got raided, so we made it impossible to raid or siege our settlement. I've since left Norland, and they're still hardly raided.

 

You can't claim that you get raided because of OOC when you literally hide behind OOC rules, You're a hypocrite if you do. It's not fair to raiders that they can't use OOC when the defenders do as well, you can literally meta-game within the rules if it's in your settlement.

 

Spoiler

2 day minimum, and 5 day maximum.

 

If the settlement defends successfully by killing or fending off the attacking force, they maintain the ability to invoke the maximum cooldown. If the defender loses, by either fleeing or being killed by the attacking force the minimum cooldown will be used.

Remove this. You cannot determine this properly as a GM. I could understand if the Defenders slay all of the raiders and the raiders don't do anything, but if they don't then it should be inconclusive, you can not accurately says who wins a raid just about ever. Maybe the Raiders flee'd but they got a fat stack of loot before they left. Maybe they completed their objective but all died.

 

2. Casus Belli System

 

Spoiler

 

 

Remove this system. It should be up to RP who you declare war on, and you shouldn't even need a reason at all to declare war. I'm going to use Oren as an example. Previously Oren bullied just about every nation on the server, I'm not going to go into it past that, but a lot of groups came together and decided that they didn't want Oren to push them around anymore, so they banded together and fought against them, and that was a good way to deal with them warring nations with very old and outdated C/B's. There should not be a rule to stop this, but rather an incentive for nations and groups to defend settlements who are being warred without a proper C/B.

 

If this system has to remain, change the parts where your C/B degrades the longer it is not used. It does not make sense for a nation to get genocided, then after four months they're finally back into playable shape and they can't do anything to get revenge because their C/B is invalid. Make it never degrade but completely unusable after 3-6 months depending on the severity of the C/B.

 

3. Nexus Skills and Professions

 

I'm gonna try to be quick about this one, because I feel like you already know what's wrong with this.

 

This system is absolutely garbage. Remove Nexus skills and professions, I understand that you worked hard on it, but it does not suit our needs.

 

Just about every skill revolves around PvP gear, which in turn promotes PvP on the server, every skill on the server promotes PvP in some way. If you get an item with PvP stats on the server, you're going to want to use it in PvP, but if you get an item that has some sick RP use, you're gonna wanna use it in RP.

 

One set of PvP gear takes literally days worth of time to make, this means when you die one time, you've just wasted a day or more of grinding. Let me explain this better.

 

This is the time to make one set of Prot Iron Gear with an Enchanted Weapon, Enchanted Bow and Arrows.

 

>One set of leather ~ About 15 minutes.

>One set of iron ~ About 30 minutes.

>Four protection books ~ About 12 hours.

>Weapon ~ About 5 minutes.

>Bow ~ About 5 minutes.

>Sharpness book ~ About 8 hours.

>Power book ~ About 8 hours.

>Arrows ~ About 5 minutes.

>Total time = About 29 hours

Value: About 2.5k?

 

Now, you can understand why people are so salty when they lose, right? Now imagine you're someone who runs a nation, and you have to give around 10-20 sets of this per warclaim. And I didn't even add Food, potions, or other specialty PvP gear like horses.

 

Now imagine being forced to use this every time you raid, or face immediate loss.

 

>One set of Leather ~ About 15 minutes.

>One set of Diamond ~ About 9 hours

>Four protection books ~ About 12 hours.

>Four projectile protection books ~ About 12 hours.
>Four different potions ~ Time unpredictable. (Potions may fail, and supplies are difficult to get.)

>Weapon ~ About 5 minutes. (Could take 5 or more tries to get desired %)

>Bow ~ About 5 minutes. (Could take 5 or more tries to get desired %)

>Sharpness book ~ About 8 hours.

>Power book ~ About 8 hours.

>Arrows ~ About 5 minutes.

>Meatloaf ~ about 10 minutes.

>Total time = About 50 hours 20 minutes

Value about 15k?

 

Now multiply that by 3-4, one for each raider.

 

My conclusion with this is, no wonder people get salty when they die or get robbed, it ain't even the Villain or raider's fault, they just get the blame.

[Yankee 130]

I agree, the current systems in place need to be re-worked or simply removed. If a group wish to raid, restrictions should be at a minimum for them and a large unbalance should not be created through rules. The current CB system in a way makes sense, due to it being able to control whether or not wars can take place. However, this control takes away from rp as nations are prevented from going to war due to not having a reason or their reason being from too long ago. I feel this system also needs change, if the reasoning behind the war makes sense then why can the war not take place?

[mmat 7460]

When nexus is gone, I believe the task of making policy for other forms of combat will be much easier. It is the core issue.

 

The main issue people have with raids these days is that there is simply no chance of victory because of unbalanced gear vs unprepared defenders. If everyone could just throw on a set of iron it would be fine.

[zaezae 1098]

I agree on that stupid CB system. Like damn bro, soooo many historical wars were literally "Hey, that king's a **** head and I don't like him. I have bigger army, **** him and his seat of power."

[Sky 0]

47 minutes ago, Gob said:

you shouldn't even need a reason at all to declare war. 

 

9 minutes ago, zaezae said:

I agree on that stupid CB system. Like damn bro, soooo many historical wars were literally "Hey, that king's a **** head and I don't like him. I have bigger army, **** him and his seat of power."

 

This server isn't a historical server, it's also made for everyone to have fun. We aren't going to let people war nations, or settlements 'just because', that concept is ridiculous and quite literally makes groups want to leave the server. Just because a small group of players may not be able to stand up for themselves with PvP does not mean they do not deserve to have their own settlement or group, not does it mean they aren't welcomed (which is exactly how wars turn out, it always goes south).

[LatzMomo 2088]

1 minute ago, Sky said:

 

 

This server isn't a historical server, it's also made for everyone to have fun. We aren't going to let people war nations, or settlements 'just because', that concept is ridiculous and quite literally makes groups want to leave the server. Just because a small group of players may not be able to stand up for themselves with PvP does not mean they do not deserve to have their own settlement or group, not does it mean they aren't welcomed (which is exactly how wars turn out, it always goes south).

0

 

You need to promote nations standing up for the little guy, like I said in the thread, not outright deny it. War should be an RP thing, not an OOC thing.

 

If a nation is being attacked for no reason, other nations should be like "Huh, that guy is getting attacked for no reason. I might be next, it's in my best interest to defend them." Staff can even promote this behaviour by giving rewards for groups doing so.

[Sky 0]

Just now, Gob said:

You need to promote nations standing up for the little guy, like I said in the thread, not outright deny it. War should be an RP thing, not an OOC thing.

 

If a nation is being attacked for no reason, other nations should be like "Huh, that guy is getting attacked for no reason. I might be next, it's in my best interest to defend them." Staff can even promote this behaviour by giving rewards for groups doing so.

 

Look, I'm not saying our system is the best, but do you truly think believe it would be better if we allowed people to wage war with no reasoning behind it? I mean, in the war team chat, all we want is legitamized reasoning behind your warring.

[zaezae 1098]

10 minutes ago, Sky said:

 

 

This server isn't a historical server, it's also made for everyone to have fun. We aren't going to let people war nations, or settlements 'just because', that concept is ridiculous and quite literally makes groups want to leave the server. Just because a small group of players may not be able to stand up for themselves with PvP does not mean they do not deserve to have their own settlement or group, not does it mean they aren't welcomed (which is exactly how wars turn out, it always goes south).

0

 

Eh, interesting you say that because out of these dozens of dozens of wars, people are still here. In fact, funnily enough, during the age of looser violence rules, there were actually more players so. I mean it isn't even about being historical, just sensible. Warclaims don't have to mean a village is destroyed. It's like an hour or two of pvp every couple of months. 

 

I mean, this, the raid rules, it all states that certain kinds of RP isn't welcomed. Hell, could save us all the trouble and outlaw all aggression? I mean there can be limits but having to justify RP is really silly. 

[LatzMomo 2088]

1 minute ago, Sky said:

 

Look, I'm not saying our system is the best, but do you truly think believe it would be better if we allowed people to wage war with no reasoning behind it? I mean, in the war team chat, all we want is legitamized reasoning behind your warring.

0

 

Then change the rules to reflect this. The rules are complicated, and suck, the decaying thing is bullshit, and caters to the defender too much. 

 

I've been the victim of getting warred without a casus belli the hardest out of anyone on the server, trust me.

 

I literally could not play on the server for over 3 months because every group I joined another group warclaimed solely because me and my friends joined. We need a system, just not this awful one, and one that's not so heavily involved.

[LatzMomo 2088]

2 minutes ago, Jaeden said:

 

I can tell you for certain no one goes 'That guy is getting attacked for no reason, let's go get them'.

Otherwise, orcs would be dead by now. They're a nation built on war after all.

 

 

Oren Ganged with the Elves to genocide the Orcs for literally this reason.

 

Coalition formed to stop Oren from bullying other nations.

 

It has happened already twice on this map.

[Archbishop 1784]

1 hour ago, Gob said:

It does not make sense for a nation to get genocided,

So if an antag destroys the realm we're allowed to genocide them and war them until they're all gone but if the orcs do it we can't? Why?

[zaezae 1098]

Question, why did we stop expecting people to roll with whatever happens and to form their own RP out of it? If you control every aspects of your RP, then you are not roleplaying.

[LatzMomo 2088]

1 minute ago, A Moongazer said:

So if an antag destroys the realm we're allowed to genocide them and war them until they're all gone but if the orcs do it we can't? Why?

0

 

Did you finish reading the sentence?

5 minutes ago, Jaeden said:

 

The former example was because Oren was the largest superpower on the server at the time.

 

Currently, the Coalition is the only superpower. And even then, they're bullying groups into war. Or, are trying to.

0

 

 

I mean members of the Coalition have valid cassus belli's to continue the war on groups, (Like Assassination attempts on the Spiritual leaders, Military leaders, and Political leaders.) but instead have decided to take war reperations. and end the war.

[seannie 7443]

if nexus wasn't tied to pvp on this server, everything would be so easy

[Praetor 1550]

30 minutes ago, Gob said:

 War should be an RP thing, not an OOC thing.

 

 Staff can even promote this behaviour by giving rewards for groups doing so.

0

 

 

:thinking: