Your View: Raids

[Narthok 10416]

Your View: Raids

 

Prelude

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Hey y’all. Your friendly neighbourhood horse GM here to talk to you about something we’ve started to look at as an area for improvement. There have been many rep mining threads, filled with opinions from both sides of the table. In doing this, rather than beating you over the head with more long winded posts I’d like to hear from the community. That being said I am more than aware that raids are a contentious issue, so I’d like to bring up some points of discussion.

 

Raids Feel Bad

The violent reaction from the community whenever we talk about raids whether it be from the defenders or the attackers is a pretty good litmus test to conclude that raids make everyone involved feel angry and unsatisfied. That is certainly not the purpose of the LOTC platform as we are here to provide a dynamic roleplay experience. So, now that we’ve established this what do we do about it. If raids feel bad then the question then becomes, why. And, subsequently how do we fix it.

 

Should Raids Mean Something

Oftentimes whilst discussing raids we come across the issue of raids being meaningless rp interruptions. Some will say that they are for ‘diplomatic interruptions’ but generally they are off hour attacks for the purpose of attacking settlements off cooldown. This frustrates the defenders and in turn results in every thickening layer of bureaucracy dissuading and stifling dynamism and the enjoyment of raid oriented players. We’ve gone from the free flowing nation endorsed raids from the fringe / athera era to this. Where groups of very skilled pvpers will group up to meet the requirements and exploit every advantage to win. Raids There is very little genuine rp driven raiding in lotc at the moment.

 

My Thoughts

In my eyes the solution to this issue is to make raiding more meaningful. Allowing raiders to burn down buildings. Things to make losing or winning a raid actually matter as you could lose crucial structures or wealth from the raid. (the whole point of a raid being to pillage and acquire wealth rather than to merely beat up some roleplayers). HOWEVER this increased poignance would need to be met with higher levels of entry for raiding. Ideally raiders would now need to be affiliated with an established faction and have a base and be a persistent and rped character. I think the solution to raids is to make them something that genuinely impact and contribute to rp and narratives rather than detracting and disrupting them. Rather than being randomly surprised by a wall exploit during your off hours it would perhaps be more interesting to be warned in advance during your peak hours in a rare (once to a few times a week) encounter that you can rp preparing for and properly rally for. You would be able to send out scouts, discuss the raid after it occurs etc. As I see it now raids are an annoyance whose results are almost entirely ignored in roleplay. People very very rarely pk off of raids because they just feel so bad and cheesy. Rather than discussing raids or making preparing in roleplay prior and after raids they are merely an activity that kills all activity and roleplay in a settlement for up 2+ hours. So rather than leaving them in their current state lets cumulatively try to find a solution to what currently exists and is disliked in some fashion by a large majority of the server. That being said, what I’ve said above are merely my thoughts on the matter and ideally can give some of you a jumping point to open up a broader discussion as to how to improve raiding. Personally my primary goal is to see raiding reformed in a manner that ensures it remains a fun and enjoyable event for mechanically oriented players whilst still positively propelling narrative and generating rp content for more hardcore rp oriented players.

[Harri 4815]

dont be mean ooc to the people you raid

dont be mean ooc to the people who raid you

gms should punish the people who break this

[Monkee 7369]

literally just keep raids as they are

[Algoda 885]

11 minutes ago, Narthok said:

In my eyes the solution to this issue is to make raiding more meaningful. Allowing raiders to burn down buildings. Things to make losing or winning a raid actually matter as you could lose crucial structures or wealth from the raid. (the whole point of a raid being to pillage and acquire wealth rather than to merely beat up some roleplayers).

I like this part, though i fail to see how it would actually be implemented. Some random GM forcing the unlucky few who happened to be defending to pay up or stealing from the bank of the PRO, no matter if he happened to be offline or not?

11 minutes ago, Narthok said:

Ideally raiders would now need to be affiliated with an established faction and have a base and be a persistent and rped character.

+1.

11 minutes ago, Narthok said:

Rather than being randomly surprised by a wall exploit during your off hours it would perhaps be more interesting to be warned in advance during your peak hours in a rare (once to a few times a week) encounter that you can rp preparing for and properly rally for. You would be able to send out scouts, discuss the raid after it occurs etc.

Nonono, this means that staff would have to be involved and staff involvement is almost always the basis for salt. Creating a system where staff intervention is almost non-existant should be the goal here.

[Narthok 10416]

1 minute ago, Algoda said:

I like this part, though i fail to see how it would actually be implemented.

+1.

Nonono, this means that staff would have to be involved and staff involvement is almost always the basis for salt. Creating a system where staff intervention is almost non-existant should be the goal here.

You already have to modreq and be supervised for the entirety of the raid. So that suggestion just gives raiders more agency with the same level of supervision.

[Eurielle 1189]

Keep the **** as is.

[drfate786 1690]

1 hour ago, Algoda said:

I like this part, though i fail to see how it would actually be implemented.

+1.

Nonono, this means that staff would have to be involved and staff involvement is almost always the basis for salt. Creating a system where staff intervention is almost non-existant should be the goal here.

 

No, the goal is to make it so people warn each other of a raid ahead of time like we do with warclaims. It would be planned by both parties with the staff likely just acting as the arbiter of common sense.

[Algoda 885]

2 minutes ago, Narthok said:

You already have to modreq and be supervised for the entirety of the raid. So that suggestion just gives raiders more agency with the same level of supervision.

I dont like that gms have to be modreqed for a raid. There has been enough of staff bias ruining raids in the past, and that factor should be eliminated

EDIT

No, the goal is to make it so people warn each other of a raid ahead of time like we do with warclaims. It would be planned by both parties with the staff likely just acting as the arbiter of common sense.

Raids should not become mini-warclaims imo

[Narthok 10416]

Just now, Algoda said:

I dont like that gms have to be modreqed for a raid. There has been enough of staff bias ruining raids in the past, and that factor should be eliminated

Too many regulations that aren't going away any time soon to go back to athera, fringe tier raids. Different times. 

[drfate786 1690]

1 hour ago, Algoda said:

I dont like that gms have to be modreqed for a raid. There has been enough of staff bias ruining raids in the past, and that factor should be eliminated

EDIT

Raids should not become mini-warclaims imo

 

In the Fringe, people knew when a raid was coming. Either they told each other in PM's or someone leaked their teamspeak info. This is literally no different. You had 40 vs 40's every single day and there never was an issue with this.

[Algoda 885]

Too many regulations that aren't going away any time soon to go back to athera, fringe tier raids. Different times. 

Well it gotta start at some point. The current rules are choking the rp of this server as it is.

[Narthok 10416]

1 minute ago, Algoda said:

Well it gotta start at some point. The current rules are choking the rp of this server as it is.

Yeup, hence why raids have been progressively lightened up on in terms of raising caps and giving raiders options to circumvent defences. 

[blago 1602]

don't touch my god damn raids unless it's for better raids

this is all i have

[wolfdwg 2677]

Raids barely happen anymore, just remove them xd

[blago 1602]

Just now, Wolfdwg said:

Raids barely happen anymore, just remove them xd

stop that