The Future of Imperial-Norlandic Relations

[Minuvas 2970]

[!] The Elf would take the time to begin discussing with fellow Citizens and patriots the future of relations between the two nations, as peacemakers and diplomats become the new front.

 

Good Citizens of the Empire and the people of Norland,

   Let me first say that we must be humble and assume that no victory is guaranteed. There is still a period of blood and anguish that is before us this coming year. Yet the long Tenth Norlandic war which we have now waged for multiple years may soon be behind us. Thanks to the service of his Imperial Majesties well trained and discipline Imperial State Army in conjunction with our canonist brothers , we may now turn to negotiations and the makers of peace - so that we may never have an eleventh Nordling War.

What would I say to the King of Norland, and the Imperial negotiators, should we sit at the table of victory to prevent future conflict? While certainly some of these topics will be difficult for a Norlandic citizen to swallow, I presume it is a palatable resolution rather to be foolish with war against the Empire once more. I presume any such agreement is far better than the complete dissolution of the Nordland crown and its people. The Imperial may be a veracious fighter, but he is a gentleman and fair arbiter always to those who wish to make peace on fair terms.

First, we must acknowledge the sins of this conflict. We must allow a joint investigation into the events of Elysium and the Providence City Fires so that we may put this matter to bed once and for all. We are a Canonist nation, and we must hold ourselves accountable for this conflict so that we may hold our heads high as Imperials - restoring our great moral authority as a beacon to Almaris. This investigation should include a broad coalition of individuals of both nations and be given special attention by the crown; and any crimes committed , or not committed, should be aired in its entirety. The Solicitor-General of Oren should be assigned to oversee the conduct of this special investigation, and his powers to summon even the citizens of Norland to testify.

Second, as the defenders of the Canonist faith, we must ask the Kingdom of Norland to end the oppression of canonist worshippers within the Hinterlands of humanity. We should ask that practicers of the Canonist faith should be allowed to form communities, build Churches, and allow the proselytization of their faith within the borders of Norland. We do not need them to abandon their misguided faith, but we should also expect that they treat the Canonist faith with dignity. Canonism deserves a special place in humanity, it should be denied no longer in its furthest reaches. Followers of Canonism shall be given the full protection of the Empire until such time as they are assured of their equitable treatment, as the Empire serves as the defenders of Canonism at home and abroad, the Empire shall allow Canonist citizens of Norland to appeal to the Imperial Law system until such time as this provision is repealed.  Imperial jurisidction over Canonist citizens shall be repealed upon confirmation by the Church of Canon it has been satisfied of  fair treatment of Canonist practices within Norland.

Third, the dignified people of Elysium have suffered greatest for the aggression of the Kingdom of Norland.  We should allow the people of Elysium to decide their fate of sovereignty without threat of violence from the Kingdom of Norland, of which a guarantee of sovereignty should be agreed by both Norland and the Empire to honor this decision. The Duchy is not culturally or ideologically aligned with the people of Norland, their spirit of service, duty, and the maximization of a persons talents is far more Imperial in nature - though they should be free to determine their own fate, as an independent Duchy with their own laws and culture,  without the threat or obligations of liege loyalty to influence their decision. A portion of taxes collected by Norland for the next few years should be used to give to the Duchy as recompense for their inflicted hardship. For this wholly unnecessary war.

Lastly, an Imperial Embassy should be established in Norland and a similar facility built in Providence and Imperial Officials should be once again allowed to freely travel to Norland as should Norland officials be allowed safe travel - as all foreign nations are guaranteed - within Oren. This shall be cemented with a Non-Aggression pact from Norland to agree not to participate in conflict against the Imperial State for the next 10 years. However, the Empire should retain the right to enforce - by force if necessary - provisions of this agreement if Norland fails to uphold it. 

 

 

Though the war is not over, we see that the people of Norland have lost the spirit to fight - they are demoralized, and begin to fight amongst themselves as to who their rightful sovereign is. They crave dignity, and the respect of being a powerful nation. It is possible to defeat them as opponents  in war and work towards cooperation in peace. Though our nations are never likely to see eye to eye on a host of issues, we can develop methods to avoid war again in the future and limit our disagreements to just that - disagreements.

Let us begin the negotiations, and extend the Imperial gentleman's hand to our defeated opponent and make the great imperial promise of the Emperor's peace- no greater friend, no greater enemy, than the Holy Orenian Empire.

 

Signed,

 

Minuvas Melphestaus
Imperial Elf

[Narthok 9213]

 

[!] Next to the public missive a pamphlet would be pinned presumably in response

 

Despite the appearance of gracious friendship and proposed peace your missive belies and ignorance of history and Norlandic state of affairs. You speak of preventing future conflict while simultaneously suggesting complete humiliation and subjugation.

 

If your intent is to ignite a fresh round of revanchism and violence then what you have proposed is a shrewd proposal to that end. If your goal is truly peace then what you have proposed is perhaps one of the most foolish and bungling attempts at diplomacy I have ever seen. 

 

For the breadth of the conflict I a have remained a neutral party, the conflict being one of secular and not religious concerns. However, let us examine your proposals and their respective issues one at a time.

 

First while an investigation would obviously be welcome I suspect this will merely be an elaborate circus wherein the blame is heaped upon my people despite multiple writs from various members of your clergy condemning certain actions. That being said it is an eternal law of war that the vanquished shall know woe. Aspirations and elaborate pageantry is will not subtract from the vitalism and innate violence of war. All additional layers of bureaucracy shall do is further dehumanize the conflict to those making decisions without wielding violence themselves, rendering ever greater brutality with ever lesser chivalry and honour. 

 

Second This is always an amusing proposal as it has been proposed and infact accepted before. Multiple Nordish settlements have played host to various southling temples all seeming neglected and unstaffed by any number of canonist priests. Generally the Norlandic people are merely included within some administrative diocese or other chaired by a Bishop who never deigns to visit the settlement.

 

But perhaps the larger issue lies in the practice and theology of the Canonist church. I am not a heartlander nor am I a canonist so I cannot speak to the conduct of the canoners in their native realms, here I speak merely of their historical conduct within my own. Canonist priests do not proselytize nor do the engage in theological debates. I am sure you are ignorant of the inner theology and policies of the Holy Hearth so I shall take this opportunity to enlighten you.

 

IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE VIOLENCE IN PURSUIT OF CONVERSION

(attached to this document you will find a list of Popular Fatherist heresies that are accepted by both denominations of Fatherism both Orthodox and Reformatory)

 

As is outlined in 'Concerning Popular Heresies' violence for the spreading of the faith is illegal. It is also for this reason that priests have for many but not all periods of Nordish history enjoyed relative immunity. That being said their exercise of said immunity has been rather sparse, the notable exception being Father Basil. 

 

The canonists will always speak of the 'pagan' but has made almost no attempts at genuine argument or conversion. To those of us engaged in the religious stewardship of the body of Fatherist faithful the theology of the Canonists seems completely incoherent. The only impetus for our conversion lies in avoiding the annual Canonist invasion and subsequent reaving. Why would one ever convert on such a weak basis. Death is far preferable to eternal torment and damnation.

 

The primary theological qualm that Fatherists hold against Canonists is the claim of Omnipotence and Omniscience. It is widely held amongst our circles that the existence of the void / the abyss / whatever term you wish to use can be well proven. Furthermore we can all agree that the void is by no definition benevolent. In fact one could go so far to call it anti-creation. In essence the void is not good. The existence of the void implies limits upon the metaphysical extent of 'goodness', I speak not of the limits created by those of free will rejecting the divine good, but rather of essential limits that predate free will. The void is a place of 'not' and most principally it is a place where the divine good is 'not'.

 

Now I have spoken to some canonists who will claim that the Void is a creation of this supposedly omnipotent goodness. But let us examine this claim in theological terms. If something is simultaneously all good and all powerful then such a being CAN but WOULD NOT create something that is not 'good'. There are those who would roll their eyes and claim that I am merely asking 'if divinity is all good then why do bad things happen', that is not what I am discussing. It is clear that in order to choose 'the good' it is necessary that one have the capacity to choose, hence free will and the subsequent capacity to create the 'not-good' and to choose the 'not-good'. This rejection or absence of the divine good as a result of free will is entirely separate from the essential absence of divine good in an aspect of creation.

 

Within Fatherism this is not an issue for us we acknowledge limits upon the Father and forces that oppose him. But I have yet to have a Canonist make a convincing argument in support of their argument for simultaneous omni-benevolence and omnipotence in the face of the void existing. If Fatherists are expected to convert or to host churches then it is only reasonable that they be convinced of canonism's supposed 'truth'

 

Third the political 'goal' of the Norlandic Kingdom is always to secure itself against annihilation. Being the only Fatherist nation in a sea of Canonists has resulted in multiple crusades and genocides against our people in the past. The only reliable deterrents has been under the range of Renatian lords who accepted our fealty in exchange for religious and political autonomy; Or as is the more classic state of affairs Norland will assemble a coalition of vulnerable nations with the intent of preventing the piecemeal conquest of the weaker nations by the massive canonist federations that inevitably emerge every few centuries. 

 

As it stands the Imperials can burn and pillage but cannot hold the land. Furthermore the Elysians have stated multiple times that they are not interested in secession. Attempting to fracture and balkanize the Norlandic realm is not a policy pursued by those seeking long-term peace but rather those seeking wholesale conquest of divided and piecemeal nations.

 

Lastly this goes without saying, however your administration generally is reticent to acknowledge a human Kingdom that is not canonist hence it is perhaps unlikely that an embassy will be established.

 

If peace is truly the desired end then these proposals should be reconsidered in light of their most likely consequences.

---

Theoderic

 

[Minuvas 2970]

Master Theodric,

  I thank you for writing and taking the time to respond. Thus, I shall respect your words with my own. Though I asked for humility, I find that even in defeat you are roused to make demands. 

 

First, it is never dishonorable to seek the truth - Imperial society has a long written intellectual tradition and archiving of history that serves as a guide to improve the future. Without knowing what has occured, we can certainly never seek to prevent it from occuring again in the future. While Norlandic institutions lack the transparency, trust, and efficiency of Imperial ones - I caution you in projecting  the failures of Norlandic institutions as how Imperial Government works. Your perception of what effective government could be has been colored by the crumbling of your own, I imagine.

 

I further certainly understand how there are those who do not wish the truth to come to light, but I would propose that those individuals will also have lost this war. 

 

Second, your answer here was rather long winded. We simply wish for the oppression of the Canonist believer to cease, so that may worship openly and without fear of retaliation socially and legally.  If the Citizens of Norland wish to be compelled as to why they should convert, they should be given the free opportunity to do so by preachers who are allowed to walk the streets and hear the confession of their sins and may compete with the ideas of fatherism. That Fatherism is a failed and false faith is a moot point; I am only making the argument that the Kingdom of Nordland violates the dignity of the Canonist worshipper by forcing them to worship underground and in secret. 

 

Third , we are in agreement than. Let the Duchy of Elysium make this decision without the threat of violence from their liege. If you are confident they shall choose to stay with a Kingdom, whom you have lamented it's inability to protect these people and who thrusted them into an unnecessary conflict, then they should do so as their people see fit. 

 

Fourth, I would lament this. Though it is my recommendation none the less. A bad day of negotiations is still better than a good day in war. 

 

Peace is certainly important, but there must also be restitution from Norland for the unjust suffering it has caused in its war of aggression against the Imperial. The Price of Elysium dead alone is a crime that the Duke of Elysium should make Norland answer for domestically.  It should not be a 'white peace', though we should also not humiliate the Norlander to the extreme. Imperial Strength should be respected , as should Imperial mercy.  I am to understand you have ambitions of your own within Norland, let us pray you also bring with you a penchant of Diplomacy. While you seem to believe the Imperial is a threat to your state, you must be reminded that the Empire has done naught but focused internally for nearly 5 decades. Roused only to war by your nation. We had hoped than many grandchildren in the Empire would never have to raise a blade against the Hinterland territory, but this dream of peace was shattered over rather flimsy reasons. 

 

The Kingdom of Norland has been a terrible friend to its allies, and has fallen even less graceful in defeat. Perhaps it can stand with dignity in peace.

 

 

 

Servus,

Minuvas Melphestaus

[rukio 8911]

1 hour ago, Minuvas said:

Master Theodric,

  I thank you for writing and taking the time to respond. Thus, I shall respect your words with my own. Though I asked for humility, I find that even in defeat you are roused to make demands. 

 

First, it is never dishonorable to seek the truth - Imperial society has a long written intellectual tradition and archiving of history that serves as a guide to improve the future. Without knowing what has occured, we can certainly never seek to prevent it from occuring again in the future. While Norlandic institutions lack the transparency, trust, and efficiency of Imperial ones - I caution you in projecting  the failures of Norlandic institutions as how Imperial Government works. Your perception of what effective government could be has been colored by the crumbling of your own, I imagine.

 

I further certainly understand how there are those who do not wish the truth to come to light, but I would propose that those individuals will also have lost this war. 

 

Second, your answer here was rather long winded. We simply wish for the oppression of the Canonist believer to cease, so that may worship openly and without fear of retaliation socially and legally.  If the Citizens of Norland wish to be compelled as to why they should convert, they should be given the free opportunity to do so by preachers who are allowed to walk the streets and hear the confession of their sins and may compete with the ideas of fatherism. That Fatherism is a failed and false faith is a moot point; I am only making the argument that the Kingdom of Nordland violates the dignity of the Canonist worshipper by forcing them to worship underground and in secret. 

 

Third , we are in agreement than. Let the Duchy of Elysium make this decision without the threat of violence from their liege. If you are confident they shall choose to stay with a Kingdom, whom you have lamented it's inability to protect these people and who thrusted them into an unnecessary conflict, then they should do so as their people see fit. 

 

Fourth, I would lament this. Though it is my recommendation none the less. A bad day of negotiations is still better than a good day in war. 

 

Peace is certainly important, but there must also be restitution from Norland for the unjust suffering it has caused in its war of aggression against the Imperial. The Price of Elysium dead alone is a crime that the Duke of Elysium should make Norland answer for domestically.  It should not be a 'white peace', though we should also not humiliate the Norlander to the extreme. Imperial Strength should be respected , as should Imperial mercy.  I am to understand you have ambitions of your own within Norland, let us pray you also bring with you a penchant of Diplomacy. While you seem to believe the Imperial is a threat to your state, you must be reminded that the Empire has done naught but focused internally for nearly 5 decades. Roused only to war by your nation. We had hoped than many grandchildren in the Empire would never have to raise a blade against the Hinterland territory, but this dream of peace was shattered over rather flimsy reasons. 

 

The Kingdom of Norland has been a terrible friend to its allies, and has fallen even less graceful in defeat. Perhaps it can stand with dignity in peace.

 

 

 

Servus,

Minuvas Melphestaus

"Perhaps if you had read his response instead of trying to one up him you would know he fully addressed and disproved your claims of Canonists being oppressed." Lily would hold up a glass of wine in cheers to the fellow 'Aheral. 

[Burnsider 4543]

Obrecht laughed and pointed at the second missive by the elf. "Look, papej, Ich know we are supposed to be neutral und all, but this ist hilarious. The elf states that it ist dishonorable to niet seek the truth. Should niet that be directed towards all these silly Orenian propaganda pamphlets?"