The Death Double Standard

[High_On_Math 449]

I just got Kloning.  ;-;

 

Please don't shelve it!  It's not just a way to cheaply get out of being killed irp.  It can let humans bypass their otherwise early deaths, and that's the primary reason I've gotten it.  I'd be OK if we changed the lore to make it a bit more costly to die, however.  Maybe double the herbs to make the clones?  If you die you lose memory of how you died, like monk revival, but you could still know you died somehow and recognize your body and be able to ask others for information about how you died.  Or maybe you remember how you died, but you get an intense fear for 2 ooc months of whoever caused you to die, resulting in you not messing around with the people who killed you and providing an incentive to kill your opponents.  I think it would be really fun if whenever you died and your soul enters a new Klone, your new body looks nothing like your old body and you get a new personality, like Dr. Who.  You keep your memories and main goals and relationships, but you could go from being a kind elderly woman who bakes cupcakes to being an edgy constantly angry goth girl.  It will feel like you as a person are dying, and the only thing that remains are the core goals in your life.

 

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IDK maybe we can ask Jentos how he feels about this, but after angho killed my char several months ago, I shelved her for a month or two and almost quit playing LOTC.  I monk revived, and have since refused to interact with Azdrazi, to the point of not even making cold potions when asked irply because I felt it would be unfair to the Azdrazi who should get a benefit from killing an enemy alchemist.

 

Sure it's not ideal and it "makes death feel cheap".  But TBH, I have died a ton and still freak out every time.  "My character is a joke and I am oocly a moron and nobody will ever want to rp with me again because all of my rp will be a joke . . . "  (I stopped taking my meds ok?)  All this to say, I am trying to take death seriously.

 

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Finally, monk revival is way worse than cloning.  Ppl die and monk revive and then die again and monk revive . . . And people will continue doing so after you've shelved cloning.  I recall introducing my brother to the server.  He played a mass murderer (in his first week on the server, he snuck into the Orenian palace and killed children).  He popularized shooting random people with a crossbow from rooftops.  This guy died like every other day, and just monk revived and walked the streets happily oblivious to the fact he was executed.  TBF he didn't take his character too seriously and it was more dark humor, but still, these kinds of antics affect the server more than cloning.

 

 

[sapphic_spidy 1089]

I went from having a list of situations I'd PK in to a list of situations I wouldn't PK in. I have only died IC thrice though, and all times were to someone I was friends with who didn't steal my items. And the situation my characters died in fell into the Things I Refuse To PK To Unless Mods Tell Me Otherwise

 

1. Things that REQUIRE someone to die.

IE, ghouls killing to "level up," orc bloodlust, rituals that require a death. 

If it is something like a public execution, sure yeah PK, but if it's a condition from a dark MA/CA or curse that requires someone to die... I'll be your fodder, I'll help you out, but I'm not going to PK to it. Like yeah sure do your funky ritual, happy to help, but I have other things to do as well so it's not going to be the end of the character.

 

2. Banditry. Basically of any kind. I'm not PKing to a bandit unless I have a really good reason. Especially with murder hobo bandits becoming more frequent again, I'm just not going to. 

 

That's essentially my list, but also if I don't have fun in the RP I probably won't PK. 

 

On the topic of kloning, a character was recently PKed (not mine) because the person who killed them also took out the klones. Not to mention, when klones return to life, they are extremely weak for a period of time. I've personally never seen those effects dodged IRP or seen it be taken advantage of, but also I've only been here since November. 

[Lord_of_losers 1546]

actually who cares tbh

[alexmagus 959]

1 hour ago, Lord_of_losers said:

actually who cares tbh

stop fishing for rep you damned freak

[Wizzar 613]

I fear the consequence of consequences.

 

People are HEAVILY invested into their personas, perhaps to a concerning degree. However, this is often a symptom of the server's systems and mechanics. It feels bad to lose a persona who just worked half a year to master a certain magic or achieve a certain goal. 

 

IN MY EXPERIENCE, I've observed that people who PK on first death are those that make CRP nearly unbearable. They are motivated to min/max, powergame, and metagame strengths and weaknesses in order to avoid the death of their persona. It is almost like they are playing a hardcore MMORPG wherein they go "tryhard" mode to try and achieve as much as possible with a persona before "dying". 

IN MY EXPERIENCE, I've observed that those who play MAs or CAs with built-in revive mechanics are those who are the most pleasant to CRP with. It is these individuals who have "nothing to lose", and therefore, are okay sacrificing a WIN to further their opponent's story. 

 

It is MY PREDICTION that INCREASING the CONSEQUENCES of DYING will only serve to make powergaming/metagaming/min-maxing MORE common.

Unless the progression of the server is modified, I disagree with attempts to introduce more PK scenarios. 

[Frostdrop1 1843]

I think overall, I don't really mind that CAs that can revive since anyone can anyway. However, I do find it silly that there isn't consequence to it. Perhaps its to encourage these communities to interact freely with the playerbase, which would be fine if they did meaningfully more often but it's been a while since I've had a meaningful interaction with such CAs while interacting with them from the opposite side. However, I think they shouldn't be able to hide so ridiculously well especially if they have multiple ways to revive. I just don't see the point in having death redlines if its so obnoxious to achieve due to minecraft mechanics that people just give up dealing with them. That's just boring and is part of the problem with LOTC being filled with super special communities that are difficult to access, are just grindy rather than fun and gatekeep the best parts for their friends. Not every community is this way, but enough of them are this way for me to have become very jaded about it very quickly. 

I will PK to any death I find worthy, i.e. is not PVP and is done in good faith. I will not PK to something not grounded in what my character is doing, or if the death isn't really driven by anything that I find narrative fulfilment in. Ultimately, I'm driven by narrative. If there's a reason for my character to be reviving, they shall revive. If there is not, they will not. So, overall I'm not that fussed though I do have my fair share of nitpicks about it.

As a sidenote, I dislike d20s entirely. I have never and will never force someone to d20 - I present the option of whether they wish to and generally the most curteous players will either present a list of loot I can take or will d20. However, this is certainly not everyone. I'm not there to loot monkey, though admittedly I do like having stuff to gain as rp items so I can rp about it or display it. I rarely get loot from anything to be honest, unless I make it, which kind of sucks. I've become very jaded about that, too, though I still don't pursue it. What will be will be, though I'd like if my focus on narrative actually like, allowed me to gain narrative things. It doesn't though.

Reagrdless, the only way I have seen d20 used outside of presenting options is forcing or pressuring under bad faith to punish percieved negativity, retaliate to bad faith or to loot goblin. It's trash and frankly I think the precedent of d20 should be permanently moved to only being able to present the option of a d20 since we're all supposed to have fun. I just don't think it's a good way to cultivate a healthy and friendly community when it can be used to pressure people who clearly aren't happy. Why do we want to allow that other than to loot goblin?

[TheBigBubbles 963]

I'm going to keep my reply short. I personally think there's no point fixing what aint broke. Let people enjoy the server how they want to. It makes sense for creatures to have revival mechanics, it makes sense to allow players to determine when they want to die. If someone wants to be on a PK clause, great, if someone doesn't, great. There's so many people on this server with so many different ideas, everyone's going to find a niche they enjoy. There's no DM to make sure your death is meaningful, I see why some people wouldnt want to PK.